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Old 2010-07-22, 07:13   Link #801
DragoZERO
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Oh man, I am really glad I stayed out of this entire forum until I finished the game.
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Old 2010-07-22, 07:36   Link #802
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Because it's a Fate/Stay Night fighting game? You shouldn't have a FSN fighting game without one of the main characters (and Dark Sakura does not count). Plus, if they can fit Luvia in there (who wouldn't have a chance in hell against a servant), then they can sure as hell fit Sakura in there.
I wouldn't be averse to this, but I'm honestly not certain what sort of offensive magic Sakura actually has. Luvia explicitly possesses magical talents similar to Rin's (as well as, er... being a professional wrestler...), but I don't recall Sakura ever demonstrating any sort of attack abilities except when she was Dark. It wouldn't be much good to put her in a fighting game only to turn her into the FSN equivalent of Dan Hibiki.
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Old 2010-07-22, 08:53   Link #803
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They probably left out Sakura because she isn't really the fighting type, you know?
Well, yes, but if it had been Rin who "wasn't the fighting type", I bet you any money they'd have put her in there anyway.

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Like I said, popularity. In any case, the manga certainly changed it around, but it didn't completely and utterly ruin it, be fair.
Zouken seemingly doesn't exist (or, at least, wasn't mentioned), the whole thing with Sakura being told that she's the Matou heir is ridiculous (that never happened, she was just implanted with worms and then thrown in the basement) and there were several other absurdities that I can't remember now....

If Sakura's backstory was as the Manga seems to be showing it, Sakura would be a very different person (much more confident), and either would not have summoned Rider, or would have summoned her and then fought in the war herself to protect Shirou.

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Originally Posted by Moczo View Post
I wouldn't be averse to this, but I'm honestly not certain what sort of offensive magic Sakura actually has. Luvia explicitly possesses magical talents similar to Rin's (as well as, er... being a professional wrestler...), but I don't recall Sakura ever demonstrating any sort of attack abilities except when she was Dark. It wouldn't be much good to put her in a fighting game only to turn her into the FSN equivalent of Dan Hibiki.
Well, she has her Hollow Ataraxia attacks, which is essentially her using her shadow magic whilst not dark. Yeah, to fit her in would require a little competitive balancing, but they've got people like Luvia going up against servants (including Berserker, who in reality she simply couldn't even scratch), as Sakura's magic is naturally good against servants (so whilst she's weaker than any of the enemy humans, she'd likely be better than them against servants), so there's no good reason why they couldn't have included her normal form if they wanted to (essentially, it'd have been like Dark Sakura, but not evil). From a gameplay perspective, it may not have been worth bothering with, but from a gameplay perspective Dark Saber wasn't really worth bothering with either, and she was still there....

I mean, the most powerful version of Saber in the game is probably Dark Saber (if she fights to her full potential), since she can spam Excaliblast. So, by all rights, if they're only going to include Dark (and not normal) Sakura, they should have only included Dark Saber too. But, you can guess how well that would have gone down....
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Old 2010-07-22, 09:14   Link #804
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Anyway, back to the topic, this needs to come out already. I'm tired of rewatching random pieces of the anime to catch the good parts while wading through the filler and fluff.
I have to admit that playing through the whole VN has gotten me incredibly interested in seeing the movie now just to see what gets adapted and what got cut. Though, thankfully they've released volume eight of the manga recently, so I've been rereading the series to tide the wait over.
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Old 2010-07-22, 09:52   Link #805
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
I have to admit that playing through the whole VN has gotten me incredibly interested in seeing the movie now just to see what gets adapted and what got cut. Though, thankfully they've released volume eight of the manga recently, so I've been rereading the series to tide the wait over.
Well... it's only 90 minutes long, so they must have cut a lot, unfortunately. I keep hearing that it's basically a long string of action sequences that sort of assumes you've read the VN to fill in the plot. But I also keep hearing that they're really good action sequences, so if you have read UBW, it's pretty incredible.

Hee, hee... maybe keep the movie on pause while you read the novel, unpausing it to watch the fight scenes as they come up in the story?
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Old 2010-07-22, 16:11   Link #806
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Originally Posted by Moczo View Post
Hee, hee... maybe keep the movie on pause while you read the novel, unpausing it to watch the fight scenes as they come up in the story?
So you get to see the awesome fight scenes animated, then pause them to read along and follow the story?
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Old 2010-07-22, 17:10   Link #807
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So you get to see the awesome fight scenes animated, then pause them to read along and follow the story?
Bingo. Great minds really do think alike!
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Old 2010-07-22, 19:31   Link #808
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Well, yes, but if it had been Rin who "wasn't the fighting type", I bet you any money they'd have put her in there anyway.
That doesn't make much sense, since one of the reasons that Rin is so popular is because she's so badass, so if she wasn't badass, she probably wouldn't be as popular, so they might not put her in.


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Zouken seemingly doesn't exist (or, at least, wasn't mentioned), the whole thing with Sakura being told that she's the Matou heir is ridiculous (that never happened, she was just implanted with worms and then thrown in the basement) and there were several other absurdities that I can't remember now....

If Sakura's backstory was as the Manga seems to be showing it, Sakura would be a very different person (much more confident), and either would not have summoned Rider, or would have summoned her and then fought in the war herself to protect Shirou.
It's been a while since I looked at the manga, but wasn't there some old man shrouded in shadows talking to Sakura? I thought that was Zouken. In any case, who's to say they said nothing to her? They could have said that, then threw her to the worms.

Quote:
Well, she has her Hollow Ataraxia attacks, which is essentially her using her shadow magic whilst not dark. Yeah, to fit her in would require a little competitive balancing, but they've got people like Luvia going up against servants (including Berserker, who in reality she simply couldn't even scratch), as Sakura's magic is naturally good against servants (so whilst she's weaker than any of the enemy humans, she'd likely be better than them against servants), so there's no good reason why they couldn't have included her normal form if they wanted to (essentially, it'd have been like Dark Sakura, but not evil). From a gameplay perspective, it may not have been worth bothering with, but from a gameplay perspective Dark Saber wasn't really worth bothering with either, and she was still there....

I mean, the most powerful version of Saber in the game is probably Dark Saber (if she fights to her full potential), since she can spam Excaliblast. So, by all rights, if they're only going to include Dark (and not normal) Sakura, they should have only included Dark Saber too. But, you can guess how well that would have gone down....
It's not so much if she can fight, but will she fight? Sakura just doesn't strike me as having the aggression needed for fighting, which isn't at all a bad thing, just how she is.

Dark Saber was there, well because everything's better with Saber in it, which is why they added Saber Lily. It wouldn't make sense to add Dark Saber and not Saber since both can fight perfectly well. The more, the merrier.
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Old 2010-07-22, 20:09   Link #809
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If they added that stuff about rape and such in the manga it wouldn't have been able to appeal to a mass audience.
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Old 2010-07-22, 21:04   Link #810
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
That doesn't make much sense, since one of the reasons that Rin is so popular is because she's so badass, so if she wasn't badass, she probably wouldn't be as popular, so they might not put her in.
You know exactly what I meant with my comment, and arguments about whether Rin would be as popular as she is if she wasn't as willing to fight are totally moot.

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It's been a while since I looked at the manga, but wasn't there some old man shrouded in shadows talking to Sakura? I thought that was Zouken.
I'm not sure, TBH.

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In any case, who's to say they said nothing to her? They could have said that, then threw her to the worms.
Fate/Zero says so.
Spoiler for Fate/Zero:


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It's not so much if she can fight, but will she fight? Sakura just doesn't strike me as having the aggression needed for fighting, which isn't at all a bad thing, just how she is.
Sakura will fight if she has something to fight for. You're right that she's not remotely aggressive, but when Rin threatens to kill Shirou in HF Sakura immediately says that she'll fight Rin. Her issue is that, in general, she can't fight for what she wants, because of Zouken. But they easily could have made up a scenario where she could fight that made at least as much sense as Luvia's did.

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Dark Saber was there, well because everything's better with Saber in it, which is why they added Saber Lily.
This attitude is precisely what pisses me off so much. People who think "well, Saber is represented three fucking times, so ignoring Sakura is fine". No, it is not. She is a main heroine, just like Saber, so she should damn well be involved. In her proper form, not as some flanderised bad guy with no redeeming features whatsoever.

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It wouldn't make sense to add Dark Saber and not Saber since both can fight perfectly well.
Perhaps not, but if they weren't willing to have more than one version of Sakura, why should they have more than one version of Saber.

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The more, the merrier.
Exactly, so why not include Sakura?
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Old 2010-07-22, 21:17   Link #811
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Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
If they added that stuff about rape and such in the manga it wouldn't have been able to appeal to a mass audience.
On top of that, Sakura's development was kind of hindered in the manga by the fact that the core story seems to be a mix of the Fate and Unlimited Blade Works routes. Honestly, the fact that she and Shinji got any development at all in the manga is amazing, even if their backstory was messed with so it would fit in better.
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Old 2010-07-22, 21:35   Link #812
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Perhaps not, but if they weren't willing to have more than one version of Sakura, why should they have more than one version of Saber.
Because Saber is the flagship character and vastly more popular. You don't have to like it, but you should still accept it.


Now, to stay on topic (don't forget what this topic is, guys): What are the limited bonuses for the movie? http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=686355

Looks like it says a special slip cover, a 100 page art book, and one or two other things that I can't quite make out.
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Old 2010-07-22, 21:55   Link #813
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
It's been a while since I looked at the manga, but wasn't there some old man shrouded in shadows talking to Sakura? I thought that was Zouken. In any case, who's to say they said nothing to her? They could have said that, then threw her to the worms.

Dark Saber was there, well because everything's better with Saber in it, which is why they added Saber Lily. It wouldn't make sense to add Dark Saber and not Saber since both can fight perfectly well. The more, the merrier.
You're right on that count; there definitely was a hunched over, shadowed figure telling her she would be the new Matou heir. I assumed it was Zouken as well.

And personally, I'm a member of the school of fighting games that suggests I should be able to sit down and play with my friends for two hours and pick a different character in every single match. If they want to throw in Sakura, go ahead. Toss Kaleido Ruby Rin and Prisma Illya in there, add Zeltrech in as a hidden bonus boss. The more characters the better!
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Old 2010-07-22, 22:34   Link #814
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You know exactly what I meant with my comment, and arguments about whether Rin would be as popular as she is if she wasn't as willing to fight are totally moot.
I know what you meant, but I brought up Rin because you seem to believe that there's some sort of conspiracy against Sakura.

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Fate/Zero says so.
Spoiler for Fate/Zero:
Didn't know that. Damn. So straight in the door then.. that? That's really bad.

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Sakura will fight if she has something to fight for. You're right that she's not remotely aggressive, but when Rin threatens to kill Shirou in HF Sakura immediately says that she'll fight Rin. Her issue is that, in general, she can't fight for what she wants, because of Zouken. But they easily could have made up a scenario where she could fight that made at least as much sense as Luvia's did.
You realize that Sakura's plan was probably to use her body as a shield so that Shirou can escape, you know. In any case, you know the rule: Pictures, or it didn't happen. The fact of the matter is that Sakura is not seen fighting even once in game. That makes her a non-combatant, and thus you can't really be annoyed if she doesn't get a major role in a fighting game


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This attitude is precisely what pisses me off so much. People who think "well, Saber is represented three fucking times, so ignoring Sakura is fine". No, it is not. She is a main heroine, just like Saber, so she should damn well be involved. In her proper form, not as some flanderised bad guy with no redeeming features whatsoever.
No one said that. The fact is, Saber is the flagship heroine, so of course she's going to get put in a lot. And as I said earlier, Sakura's a non-combatant, so it isn't an insult if she doesn't have a major role in a fighting game. If it was something else, I might agree with you, but this is a fighting game, you know.

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Perhaps not, but if they weren't willing to have more than one version of Sakura, why should they have more than one version of Saber.
Because Saber's the flagship heroine, that's why.


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Exactly, so why not include Sakura?
I have no problem if she's in the game, but the fact is, she isn't and I doubt it's because they hate her.
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Old 2010-07-22, 23:01   Link #815
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I know what you meant, but I brought up Rin because you seem to believe that there's some sort of conspiracy against Sakura.
Well, I'm pretty sure if Rin was in the same scenario as Sakura is, they'd have included her.

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Didn't know that. Damn. So straight in the door then.. that? That's really bad.
Yeah. Zouken didn't exactly try to sugar-coat Sakura's treatment....

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You realize that Sakura's plan was probably to use her body as a shield so that Shirou can escape, you know. In any case, you know the rule: Pictures, or it didn't happen.
She had Rider, and she intended to fight Rin as Rider's master. She would likely have died in the battle, yes, if they were both fighting full-out, because in the state that she's in at that point she wouldn't stand a chance against Rin in battle, but she wouldn't have just stood there and taken it. And I could post game screenshots, but there's no point, especially when it's not even on-topic. It happens when Sakura and Shirou return home after the worms have been removed from her and find Rin waiting for them/

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The fact of the matter is that Sakura is not seen fighting even once in game. That makes her a non-combatant, and thus you can't really be annoyed if she doesn't get a major role in a fighting game
If you're going solely on FSN, then yes, perhaps, but in HA she does fight, so there's no excuse for not including her.

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No one said that. The fact is, Saber is the flagship heroine, so of course she's going to get put in a lot. And as I said earlier, Sakura's a non-combatant, so it isn't an insult if she doesn't have a major role in a fighting game. If it was something else, I might agree with you, but this is a fighting game, you know.
But it's a FSN fighting game. She's one of the main characters in FSN, so she should damn well be there. If they're not going to include the major FSN characters, why bother? After all, if you're playing it, you're likely playing it because it's FSN.

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Because Saber's the flagship heroine, that's why.
And Sakura is one of the main heroines. Yet she's not there, whilst characters like Luvia, who gets one line at the end of HF and a few brief mentions in HA is. And it's not that Sakura can't fight, because HA shows that she can.

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I have no problem if she's in the game, but the fact is, she isn't and I doubt it's because they hate her.
No, it's because they didn't care enough to bother to include her, unlike with Saber, who they included three times.
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Old 2010-07-23, 00:11   Link #816
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Well, I'm pretty sure if Rin was in the same scenario as Sakura is, they'd have included her.
Who knows?


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Yeah. Zouken didn't exactly try to sugar-coat Sakura's treatment....
Too true...


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She had Rider, and she intended to fight Rin as Rider's master. She would likely have died in the battle, yes, if they were both fighting full-out, because in the state that she's in at that point she wouldn't stand a chance against Rin in battle, but she wouldn't have just stood there and taken it. And I could post game screenshots, but there's no point, especially when it's not even on-topic. It happens when Sakura and Shirou return home after the worms have been removed from her and find Rin waiting for them/
I never said that she'd sit down and let Rin kill her, I said she'd use herself as a shield to protect Shirou.


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If you're going solely on FSN, then yes, perhaps, but in HA she does fight, so there's no excuse for not including her.
I suppose so, but it seems that the game developers didn't count that. In any case Sakura is not really well-known as a combatant in any case...


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But it's a FSN fighting game. She's one of the main characters in FSN, so she should damn well be there. If they're not going to include the major FSN characters, why bother? After all, if you're playing it, you're likely playing it because it's FSN.
It's a fighting game, meaning you're playing it to see FSN characters fight. Sakura isn't known as a combatant so they include her, I guess.


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And Sakura is one of the main heroines. Yet she's not there, whilst characters like Luvia, who gets one line at the end of HF and a few brief mentions in HA is. And it's not that Sakura can't fight, because HA shows that she can.
Luvia's the sapphire to Rin's ruby, so of course she'll be there. And as for Sakura, as I've said she sin't really known as a combatant so I assume they didn't put her in because of that.


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No, it's because they didn't care enough to bother to include her, unlike with Saber, who they included three times.
Probably. I doubt they hate her, but she isn't famous for being a combatant, so they just didn't bother to include her.
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Old 2010-07-23, 00:21   Link #817
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You're right that she's not really known as a combatant, but she's one of the main characters and she's capable of fighting, so they damn well should have included her.
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Old 2010-07-23, 08:55   Link #818
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Guys, this thread is for the movie. Seriously, you should take all of the off topic talk to the appropriate topics.
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Old 2010-07-23, 14:47   Link #819
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I have to agree, but before I do, I got summin to say

Your favored heroin didn't get her path fragged because it was deemed "too depressing, too dark, and too... fucked up", so shut it.
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Old 2010-07-23, 16:13   Link #820
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Actually, I'm pretty sure Ilya's path got cut simply because they didn't have time, and it's likely that a lot of the dark stuff in HF came from the Ilya path (the whole thing about Angra Mainyu, for example, fits quite naturally in with an Ilya route, since the problem was caused by the Einsbern family).

But, anyway, whilst I'm willing to accept that Ilya gets somewhat screwed in FSN (and, indeed, she's not in Unlimited Codes either, except as Berserker's mouthpiece), that doesn't mean that Sakura isn't getting screwed. And at least Unlimited Codes doesn't actively make Ilya out to be a Complete Monster with no redeeming features.
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