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Old 2009-08-12, 13:59   Link #301
Phenomenal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Him being stronger than mihawk would be consistent , there's nothing so far to say he is weaker or stronger than mihawk . All we know is shanks and mihawk used to fight . They stop cause shanks lost a arm . Mihawk became a warlord and shanks became one of the four kings of the new world.

If mihawk is stronger or weaker than shanks it would still make sense either way . You can't say shanks with his haki and sword at best rival mihawk cause they stop fighting ten years ago.( for all we know he got better at haki cause he lost a arm ) Plus we have no idea what haki can really do. Not like it would really matter cause mihawk it not going fight shanks no matter how strong he is cause he lost a arm .

All we know for certain is that used to fight and there was never a clear winner .
That was my point, they were rivals and that's all we got. So how can you say Shanks being stronger than Mihawk is consistent? Especially when Mihawk isn't even interested in Shanks anymore, he is interested in people like Zoro and even the most powerful pirate in the world, Whitebeard.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2009-08-12 at 14:11.
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Old 2009-08-12, 14:53   Link #302
Master Mold
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lol Shanks got mad love, seriously. He's like a Uchiha.
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Old 2009-08-12, 15:03   Link #303
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Old 2009-08-12, 16:20   Link #304
andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
That was my point, they were rivals and that's all we got. So how can you say Shanks being stronger than Mihawk is consistent? Especially when Mihawk isn't even interested in Shanks anymore, he is interested in people like Zoro and even the most powerful pirate in the world, Whitebeard.
Because shanks being stronger without his arm does not matter to mihawk . As i said before it looks like mihawk stop fight shanks cause he lost a arm not because he grew weaker . From the data book they say shanks has not lost any power . So mihawk just does not seem care about him any more because he lost a arm . Him being stronger or weaker does not matter to mihawk anymore. Hell mihawk is not interested in alot of stuff . That does not mean he stronger than some of other people out there in the OP world.

By the way i don't care if shanks is stronger than mihawk or weaker my point was even if he is stronger than mihawk the story would still consistent.

Last edited by andy; 2009-08-12 at 16:50.
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Old 2009-08-12, 17:09   Link #305
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There is another chapter coming out this week right?
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Old 2009-08-12, 18:16   Link #306
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actually theres not going to be new chapter of one piece this week due to the holiday in japan.is it just me that oda is taking breaks more than usual?
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Old 2009-08-12, 19:03   Link #307
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Originally Posted by Ganon View Post
actually theres not going to be new chapter of one piece this week due to the holiday in japan.is it just me that oda is taking breaks more than usual?
Naw, this week was not just Oda slacking, but was a Official break for jump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Because shanks being stronger without his arm does not matter to mihawk . As i said before it looks like mihawk stop fight shanks cause he lost a arm not because he grew weaker. From the data book they say shanks has not lost any power . So mihawk just does not seem care about him any more because he lost a arm .Him being stronger or weaker does not matter to mihawk anymore. Hell mihawk is not interested in alot of stuff . That does not mean he stronger than some of other people out there in the OP world.

By the way i don't care if shanks is stronger than mihawk or weaker my point was even if he is stronger than mihawk the story would still consistent.
No, for then Shanks would be stronger then the strongest swordsman in the world, that would be inconsistent, for Mihawk is the one who is "greater then all swordsman in the world." The only way for it not to be inconsistent is if Shanks is not a swordsman and is some type of DF user or gun fighter, street hobo. In lame terms not a swordsman. (Which most or the Shanks fanbase pray about every night, hoping for it to come true.)

I still have yet to hear(ha Read) a decent argument about why its suck that Newgate has a Devil fruit?

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-08-12 at 19:28. Reason: The Saikyo
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Old 2009-08-12, 19:35   Link #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Naw, this week was not just Oda slacking, but was a Official break for jump.
With a wife like Inaba Chiaki, why wouldn't Oda want to stay home on occasion ...

edit: Okay, that was a little weird, even for me. I apologies.

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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
I still have yet to hear(ha Read) a decent argument about why its suck that Newgate has a Devil fruit?
Honestly, I was expecting you to be the most vocal. I guess you finally proved me wrong (for once ).

Last edited by james0246; 2009-08-12 at 20:29.
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Old 2009-08-12, 20:06   Link #309
andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Naw, this week was not just Oda slacking, but was a Official break for jump.



No, for then Shanks would be stronger then the strongest swordsman in the world, that would be inconsistent, for Mihawk is the one who is "greater then all swordsman in the world." The only way for it not to be inconsistent is if Shanks is not a swordsman and is some type of DF user or gun fighter, street hobo. In lame terms not a swordsman. (Which most or the Shanks fanbase pray about every night, hoping for it to come true.)

I still have yet to hear(ha Read) a decent argument about why its suck that Newgate has a Devil fruit?
Mihawk being better with a sword than shanks means nothing . Mihawk is greatest swordsman in the world but people out there than can beat him. We have only seen dark king use a sword so are we going to say mihawk is stronger than him.

We saw shanks use haki so there is a hint that he can use more than a sword already.

Give me a reason why mihawk is stronger than shanks other than his title. When we don't even know what happen in there fights. We know mihawk stop fight shanks cause he lost a arm and maybe shanks just fool around in new world .Making mihawk the strongest swordsman by default. It was not even said why they were fighting in first place.

No matter what even if shanks is stronger than mihawk or weaker it would still make the story consistent. Just because mihawk has a title don't make him stronger than shanks. That's like me saying shanks is a Yonkou he has to be stronger than mihawk. The only person that has that right is WB since that is his title.Does mihawk have the better swords skills i would say yes. Is mihawk stronger i don't know the same goes for shanks.

Mihawk title as the strongest swordsman in world only tell us that he is high tier .

As for WB i always expect him to have DF and a really strong on at that .

Last edited by andy; 2009-08-12 at 20:39.
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Old 2009-08-12, 20:55   Link #310
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I think Mihawk lost interest because he's honorable. Shanks losing his arm just didn't seem fair to Mihawk, and therefore he lost interest.
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Old 2009-08-12, 21:18   Link #311
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Andy, What does this have to do with the argument at hand? I thought you didn't care who was stronger then who? but was arguing about whether or not shanks being stronger then Mihawk was an inconsistency?

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Mihawk being better with a sword than shanks means nothing . Mihawk is greatest swordsman in the world but people out there than can beat him. We have only seen dark king use a sword so are we going to say mihawk is stronger than him.
Mihawk > All swordsman in the world, that's why Zoro is after him.

Quote:
We saw shanks use haki so there is a hint that he can use more than a sword already.
and Zoro used Illusions.

Quote:
Give me a reason why mihawk is stronger than shanks other than his title.
Why are you excluding Mihawk's title? in any case Its stated in the current story that "Mihawk is greater then all other swordsman in the world."

Quote:
No matter what even if shanks is stronger than mihawk or weaker it would still make the story consistent. Just because mihawk has a title don't make him stronger than shanks. That's like me saying shanks is a Yonkou he has to be stronger than mihawk. The only person that has that right is WB since that is his title.Does mihawk have the better swords skills i would say yes. Is mihawk stronger i don't know the same goes for shanks.
Ive already answered this in the last post, here read it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold
No, for then Shanks would be stronger then the strongest swordsman in the world, that would be inconsistent, for Mihawk is the one who is "greater then all swordsman in the world." The only way for it not to be an inconsistent is if Shanks is not a swordsman and is some type of DF user or gun fighter, street hobo. In lame terms not a swordsman. (Which most or the Shanks fanbase pray about every night, hoping for it to come true.)

Quote:
Mihawk title as the strongest swordsman in world only tell us that he is high tier.
and that he is above all swordsman in the world, Shanks is a swordsman until the story say otherwise, thus shanks is below Mihawk. Hence why Mihawk has the title in the current story line and is Zoro's dream, not Shanks and Mihawk.
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Old 2009-08-12, 21:32   Link #312
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Quote:
Shanks is a swordsman until the story say otherwise
But the story hasn't really specified yet.

What I mean is that just because we have seen him use a sword doesn't mean he is a swordsman for sure. He may have other weapons at his disposal that we know nothing about.

There are many characters which use swords but are not classified as swordsmen. For example, we have seen both Aokiji and Kizaru use (elemental) swords, and yet I'm sure most won't call them swordsmen. Supernovae Law and Drake both used swords as well as Rayleigh and I don't think they are swordsmen either.

I just don't think we have enough information on this matter to form a sound conclusion yet.
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Last edited by paradox13; 2009-08-12 at 23:10.
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Old 2009-08-12, 21:36   Link #313
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
But the story hasn't really specified yet.

What I mean is that just because we have seen him use a sword doesn't mean he is a swordsman for sure. He may have other weapons at his disposal that we know nothing about.
They don't exist until the story hollers back.

Quote:
There are many characters which use swords but are not classified as swordsmen. For example, we have seen both Aokiji and Kizaru use (elemental) swords, and yet I'm sure most won't call them swordsmen. Supernovae Law and Drake both used swords as well as Rayleigh and I don't think they are swordsmen yet.

I just think we don't have enough information on this matter to form a sound conclusion yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold
I never said just because Shanks posses a sword, that makes him a swordsman, I'm saying he is a swordsman for the simple fact that he rivaled the strongest swordsman in the world many times in the past along with duels (Which is formal combat) with him. Shanks went at the strongest man in the world with a sword and equaled his strike, he even learned how to use his sword with his other arm after his sword arm was bitten off by a sea king (IIRC). He has world top skills with a sword, you just don't do these things by having a sword at your side (its Common sense really).
Like I said he's a swordsmen until the story says otherwise.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-08-12 at 21:45. Reason: That's how I roll.
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Old 2009-08-12, 22:00   Link #314
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Are you really going to compare haki to zoro Illusions. We had whole arc to show us what haki can do . Even if you don't like it ,haki can be use to read moves, cancel DF powers and make weapons stronger , it is a plus in a fight . It is a extra skill if i use a sword plus haki i am not only using my sword skills.

We don't know if shanks can do this but he used haki .Which means he might have other skills other than being a swordsman. Since the story show us what haki can do

The story never said he was a swordsman only and until now we did not know even know about haki which change things. To say mihawk is stronger than anyone that uses a sword type weapon or sword when they have other skills make no sense.

Which goes back to my point which is even if shanks is stronger than mihawk it would consistent. Oda could write because of haki shanks is stronger than mihawk .
Mihawk being better than shanks with a sword does not mean he is stronger or weaker. No matter which way Oda chose to go it would be consistent. Since nothing was ever said about shanks being weaker or stronger than mihawk only that there was never a clear winner when they fought.

Last edited by andy; 2009-08-12 at 23:05.
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Old 2009-08-12, 23:09   Link #315
Master Mold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Are you really going to compare haki to zoro Illusions. We had whole arc to show us what haki can do . Even if you don't like it ,haki can be use to read moves, cancel DF powers and make weapons stronger , it is a plus in a fight . It is a extra skill if i use a sword plus haki i am not only using my sword skills.
When Did i say i don't like Haki?

Zoro's illusions are an extra skill also, does that make him not a swordsman?

Quote:
We don't know if shanks can do this but he used haki .Which means he might have other skills other than being a swordsman. Since the story show us what haki can do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold
They don't exist until the story hollers back.
Quote:
The story never said he was a swordsman. We only saw him use a sword and there alot of people in OP that use one and we won't call them swordsmen.Or they use one and have other powers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master mold
I never said just because Shanks posses a sword, that makes him a swordsman, I'm saying he is a swordsman for the simple fact that he rivaled the strongest swordsman in the world many times in the past along with duels (Which is formal combat) with him. Shanks went at the strongest man in the world with a sword and equaled his strike, he even learned how to use his sword with his other arm after his sword arm was bitten off by a sea king (IIRC). He has world top skills with a sword, you just don't do these things by having a sword at your side (its Common sense really).
Quote:
Which goes back to my point which is even if shanks is stronger than mihawk it would consistent. Oda could write because of haki shanks is stronger than mihawk .
Mihawk being better than shanks with a sword does not mean he is stronger or weaker. No matter which way Oda chose to go it would be consistent. Since nothing was ever said about shanks being weaker or stronger than mihawk only that there was never a clear winner when they fought.
Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by master Mold
No, for then Shanks would be stronger then the strongest swordsman in the world, that would be inconsistent, for Mihawk is the one who is "greater then all swordsman in the world." The only way for it not to be an inconsistent is if Shanks is not a swordsman and is some type of DF user or gun fighter, street hobo. In lame terms not a swordsman. (Which most or the Shanks fanbase pray about every night, hoping for it to come true.)
Shanks is a swordsman until the story says otherwise, and for a swordsman to be stronger then Mihawk it would be an inconsistent.

We can agree to disagree for your not bring anything new to the table, that I have not combated.
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Old 2009-08-12, 23:12   Link #316
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Quote:
Shanks is a swordsman until the story says otherwise, and for a swordsman to be stronger then Mihawk it would be an inconsistent.

We can agree to disagree for your not bring anything new to the table, that I have not combated.
Why are you so stubborn?
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Old 2009-08-12, 23:26   Link #317
andy
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Zoro illusions comes from his swordsman ship , it not the same as haki .

One min your saying well shanks can't use any haki moves cause the story does not have him doing it but then saying he's a swordsman because you saw him use a sword. When the story never said that was they only way he fights or if he was a swordsman .

Then your saying mihawk is stronger than shanks when we don't even know what shanks can do or we don't even know the reason why the fought . Because you only see him use a sword when the story said there was never a clear winner .We don't even know if mihawk had his title back in the day when he used fight shanks but then when he lost a arm he did not want him to fight him anymore. Which still says nothing about who is stronger .

I can also say hey it common sense that he would be able to use haki moves. Why cause he use it on WB ship where he destroy the ship with out even touching it.Made a sea king run and he is a Yonkou hey if people on amazon lily can do it shanks should be able to it.

I just check the OP data book and it was not even said how he and shanks fought only that they use.

Last edited by andy; 2009-08-13 at 00:06.
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Old 2009-08-12, 23:55   Link #318
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Mihawk might beat Shanks in swordsmanship, but Shanks can probably fight better than him. But their is no clear conclusion yet just because Shanks is one of the Yonku doesn't automatically make him stronger than most of the Schbukais
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Old 2009-08-13, 00:11   Link #319
Master Mold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Zoro illusions comes from his swordsman ship , it not the same as haki .
No, it comes from Zoro's "Killer intent." Didn't say its the same as Haki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
One min your saying well shanks can't use any haki moves cause the story does not have him doing it
When did I say Shanks can't use Haki?

Quote:
When the story never said that was they only way he fights or if he was a swordsman.
Well it don't exist until the story says otherwise, until then, I don't have to listen/agree to the fanbases assumption.

Quote:
Then your saying mihawk is stronger than shanks when we don't even know what shanks can do or we don't even know the reason why the fought .
I'm going on what the story has shown, please stop acting as if your not reading the post, and if your are not Please actual read my posts debunk the points and facts. Instead of what seems to be you ignoring them.

Quote:
Because you only see him use a sword when the story said there was never a clear winner. We don't even know if mihawk had his title back in the day when he used fight shanks but then when he lost a arm he did not want him to fight him anymore. Which still says nothing about who is stronger.
The rivalry your speaking about is past tense. That means nothing to the current story line. Which states Mihawk as the strongest swordsman in the world, which put Mihawk above all other swordsman. To have another swordsman stronger then Mihawk or as an equal, would be an inconsistent within the current story.

If you don't agree, lets agree to disagree.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-08-13 at 00:30.
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Old 2009-08-13, 01:00   Link #320
andy
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Okay then tell when did the story says shanks only fights with a sword and has no other skills. .Even if they fight with sword it was never said that all shanks can do .

Your point is you see shanks use a sword so because of that mihawk is stronger .When the story never said shanks was a swordsman or that is only way he fights.
.
I just check the manga chapter 96 page 16 mihawk said he does not want to fight shanks. Again it was never said how shanks fights. Chapter 434 page 10 WB said the days of them dueling are still fresh in his ears ,you can duel with someone and not use the same weapon of same set of skills.

Never in any part of the manga or data books did it say shanks is swordsman or only fights with a sword and your saying that mihawks is stronger than him because he greatest swords man in the world. What has that have to do with shanks when we do not know how he fights or if swordmans ship is his only set of skills he use to fight with. you just see him use a sword so he a swordsman when no where in the manga it was said that he was only a swordsman.

Also zoro illusions are from his sword skills most of time when you see them is when he uses a move. There are not a extra skill zoro adding illusions to his swords it not going to make him by pass DF power unlike what we saw with haki , it does not allow him to know what his opponent is going to do. There not even in the same league.(right now anyway)


Just saw Phenomenal post still does not change my point .

Last edited by andy; 2009-08-13 at 01:38.
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