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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 162 45.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 8.12%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 32 8.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 42 11.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 4.20%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 15 4.20%
4 out of 10 : Poor 7 1.96%
3 out of 10 : Bad 5 1.40%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 10 2.80%
1 out of 10 : Painful 40 11.20%
Voters: 357. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-08-09, 22:12   Link #861
Heminga13
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Yeah, at this point I think everyone's got their mind set on exactly what Endless Eight did for them and how they think the story played out plot-wise. Unless we get Tanigawa or someone from KyoAni explaining the reasons behind it (either about the adaption or the story itself) to give us an official answer there's not much left for us to do.

Let's get ready for the next arc!
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Old 2009-08-09, 22:34   Link #862
Kogetsu Shirogane
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Or next one-parter, if they decided to follow up with the sports day.
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... what is this... I don't even...
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Old 2009-08-09, 22:41   Link #863
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Or next one-parter, if they decided to follow up with the sports day.
True...I've just started calling all of the stories 'arcs' out of habit, even if they're just one episode lol
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Old 2009-08-09, 23:51   Link #864
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As annoying as this arc was, I did get the satisfaction of actually being right about what had to be done to get out of the time loop. My friends had totally dismissed the cause of the loop when I mentioned it a few weeks ago.
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Old 2009-08-10, 00:10   Link #865
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I haven't been here for a while but from what I'm hearing Endless Eight is over. About freaken time, Jesus. Anyway I guess I'll just finish off these last few episodes and wait for the next "new" episode. Glad my pain and suffering is over.
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Old 2009-08-10, 02:48   Link #866
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Endless eight was just like a hurricane simulator. We all survived it and waited "patiently" for it to end. hahaha

But on topic, great episode. A lot of things were changed in this episode compared to the other semi-identical endless eight episodes. The ending had me griping for air!! I was cheering Kyon on to break this curse of endlessness...and so it happened.
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Old 2009-08-10, 03:46   Link #867
ac195
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Originally Posted by Heminga13 View Post
True...I've just started calling all of the stories 'arcs' out of habit, even if they're just one episode lol
Every time I see your avatar I want to say... "Now picture it.. and form it into a ball... THROW IT NOW KRILLIN!!! NOW!!!"
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Old 2009-08-10, 07:42   Link #868
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I think this article is a good read.

http://www.baka-raptor.com/2009/08/0...ss-pedophilia/

Sorry if it was posted before.
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Old 2009-08-10, 07:49   Link #869
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I think this article is a good read.
I think this article is retarded, albeit a troll/joke.
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Old 2009-08-10, 08:35   Link #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
I think this article is a good read.

http://www.baka-raptor.com/2009/08/0...ss-pedophilia/

Sorry if it was posted before.
I have to admit, that article was funny.

He's right about the key point - just not enough creativity/variation shown between the loops.

Probably the biggest lesson I've taken from Endless Eight is that KyoAni couldn't do good anime original content if their livelihoods depended on it. To be brutally honest, eight year olds could have come up with something more exciting for iterations 2 through 7.

I strongly agree with baka-raptor on one thing - time loop stories shouldn't suck. Most time loop stories I've watched where loads of fun - especially Higurashi. But the cardinal rule of time loop stories is that you have to go crazy with it - you can't play it tight and close to the vest. The big benefit of a time loop story is that the unresolved time loops can include all sorts of zany insanity since it has no lasting relevance at the end.

OTOH, baka-raptor is over-stating the pedophile issue - and this is coming from a guy who finds a fair bit of lolicon to be questionable. Haruhi, Mikuru, and Yuki are in their mid-to-late teens - their "legal" in their own country, as well as in many other places. Ok, technically Yuki is 3/4 years old, but she doesn't look it.
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Old 2009-08-10, 08:47   Link #871
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I don't know; I think tedium really was the point of the Endless Eight loop.

I didn't say it was an exciting point though.
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Old 2009-08-10, 08:52   Link #872
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I don't know; I think tedium really was the point of the Endless Eight loop.

I didn't say it was an exciting point though.
I was thinking that was possible for awhile until Yuki's emotional progression of gradual depression seemed to halt (if not reverse) somewhere around the fifth or sixth iteration.

Even if that's the case, though - when boring your audience (for this long) is the intended goal... I agree with Akka, that's kind of insane.
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Old 2009-08-10, 08:58   Link #873
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I have to admit, that article was funny.

He's right about the key point - just not enough creativity/variation shown between the loops.
Yeah, another point that I agree with him is about the hint episode.
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Old 2009-08-10, 09:16   Link #874
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They are trapped in a time loop. They have someone who is fully aware of all the previous iteration. Nobody asks her about information, nobody tries to use her knowledge.
Everybody in the SOS-dan behaves exactly as you'd expect them to behave in this circumstance. Yuki especially. Arguably, it's in her best interest to be as unhelpful as possible. Remember what her core goals are:

A) Observe Haruhi, which the DITE views as an Outside-Context Problem/Key to Transcendence.
- Subgoal: Protect Haruhi, as she's no good to the DITE if dead.
- Subgoal: Protect Kyon, whom, thanks to meddling on the part of post-Singularity Humanity, is now the Key To Everything.
- Sub-subgoal: Observe Kyon. Observe Kyon and Haruhi.

Being trapped in 595 years of recursion serves her goals perfectly, since it supplies the DITE with 595 years worth of Haruhi physics-bending data. Since Haruhi resets everything at the end of the loop, she's removed post-Singularity Humanity (Mikuru's faction) from the equation. Since they're just doing some harmless summer activities in the loop, it also satisfies the subgoals of protecting Haruhi and Kyon from harm.

And they do ask her, Kyon especially. Her responses seem to be given with the intention of strongly discouraging further inquiry. Instead of volunteering clues which might make the SOS-dan try something stupid which could violate her core goals (i.e. contaminating the data, like Asakura wanted to do, or potentially put Haruhi and Kyon at risk,) she merely data-dumps trivia on Kyon until he gives up in a combination of disgust and despair. And then primly states that it's her duty to observe.

We also know that Mikuru is completely worthless. She has a complete lack of initiative, since for her, being in this period of time is like walking blindfolded through a minefield. She wouldn't dare take any action that wasn't ordered by her superiors. Not to mention, in cases of emergency, her superiors may have given her standing orders to do nothing but wait for Kyon to think of a way out of it. To Mikuru's faction, it's all ancient history, and they have a compulsion to ensure history turns out the way they've recorded it.

One might think that Koizumi could take some sort of action. And he does. He doesn't want to draw undue attention to himself and his Organization, so if he wants Haruhi to do something other than what she wants, he works through Kyon. He investigates his deja vu, builds his case for their endless summer, and then presents it to Kyon. He also has that . . . helpful . . . suggestion on how to end the loop. Which is entirely consistent with his view that Kyon is Haruhi's Chosen One. Kyon, whose density lies somewhere between that of a neutron star and a black hole, chooses to ignore him.

So the SOS-dan has taken just about all the action they can. The fact that they're stuck in a 595 year loop can be blamed almost entirely on Kyon's epic lack of balls and the DITE's desire for lots and lots of consistent data.

Quote:
If that's not suspension-of-disbelief-breaking stupidity, I don't know what it is.
There is also the "OMG she's going out of the café, I can't even ask her if she's sure she's done all what she wants". That's the very first thing I thought about, and if I could manage it in a split second, I'm pretty sure that any person with even a two-digits QI could manage to do it during the whole next day Kyon spend worrying about the loop but not even thinking to call Haruhi.
Kyon doesn't seem that worried. If anything, he's probably wallowing in Shinji-esque levels of self-pity, his mind focused on such unhelpful thoughts as "I blew it!" and "Whatever, maybe if I pray really hard, Kyon version 15532 will make the stunning realization that I didn't. I'm too depressed about blowing it to do anything."
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Old 2009-08-10, 09:38   Link #875
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Everybody in the SOS-dan behaves exactly as you'd expect them to behave in this circumstance.
Sorry, but no.

It's not because basically anything can be somehow "justified" with enough rationalization that it makes it logical and worthy. There is a time where you have to let go of the over-rationalization and just see the obvious.

They are simply not even trying and waiting passively for the deus ex machina to happens. This is BAD storytelling, and plain stupidity.
The only one who has a somehow believable joker is Yuki, and it's still quite a stretch as she's very capable at giving nods in the right direction the rest of the time.
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Old 2009-08-10, 09:45   Link #876
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Sorry, but no.
Care to explain better? I can't see Mikuru or Yuki acting different. Koizumi, maybe, but I don't know if he would ask for Nagato's help.

Kyon is on you couls say is holding the idiot ball. However, he don't see to really care that much about the loops (there is always another chance, after all). The same goes for Itsuki, btw. He seens to be having fun for most of the episode (though his facial expressions are not reliable).
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Old 2009-08-10, 10:14   Link #877
Akka
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Care to explain better? I can't see Mikuru or Yuki acting different. Koizumi, maybe, but I don't know if he would ask for Nagato's help.

Kyon is on you couls say is holding the idiot ball. However, he don't see to really care that much about the loops (there is always another chance, after all). The same goes for Itsuki, btw. He seens to be having fun for most of the episode (though his facial expressions are not reliable).
I don't see how I can explain better than : they didn't even try the obvious possibilities.
All the counter I saw about that were rationalization about how it could be considered adequate for them to not do it. And that's the problem with rationalization : you can ALWAYS find a way to explain everything if you look hard enough.

I tend to think that the difference with a bad plot and a good plot is that the latter doesn't need rationalization. If it seems alright and logical at least at first glance, it means that the characters were at least adequate in their reactions.
When I facepalm because I find glaring holes in their logic and acts in real time, it means that they are acting considerably more stupidly than me, which, unless their stupidity is a plot point, shows that the story is simply bad.
Overlooking the obvious is a very common flaw in weak storyline. It can be forgiven when it's a minor point or consequence-free. When the arc drags on for so long and cause such a ruckus, it becomes inexcusable.
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Old 2009-08-10, 10:24   Link #878
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Originally Posted by Akka View Post
I don't see how I can explain better than : they didn't even try the obvious possibilities.
All the counter I saw about that were rationalization about how it could be considered adequate for them to not do it. And that's the problem with rationalization : you can ALWAYS find a way to explain everything if you look hard enough.
This goes for you as well right? I mean, you always can think in something they could have done.

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Originally Posted by Akka View Post
I tend to think that the difference with a bad plot and a good plot is that the latter doesn't need rationalization. If it seems alright and logical at least at first glance, it means that the characters were at least adequate in their reactions.
When I facepalm because I find glaring holes in their logic and acts in real time, it means that they are acting considerably more stupidly than me, which, unless their stupidity is a plot point, shows that the story is simply bad.
Overlooking the obvious is a very common flaw in weak storyline. It can be forgiven when it's a minor point or consequence-free. When the arc drags on for so long and cause such a ruckus, it becomes inexcusable.
As I said, I really don't imagine Yuki or Mikuru acting different. Only Kyon and, maybe, Itsuki. However, you don't need rationalization to know why Kyon was being dumb. He said it at the end of every episode, he always can try latter.

I understand you pain, I think this whole thing was ad executed. But the characters are are still in-character. You wouldn't think taht way if it was only 1 or 2 episodes (like the original chapter). After seeing it 7 times (not counting the first one) you can think many ways, true. But their behavious is not strange if was only one time (and, for then, it was).

I am still not seeing how do you thing they would act.
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Old 2009-08-10, 10:41   Link #879
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A possible theory I'll throw out there since I don't recall reading anything much like it...


Maybe Kyon was enjoying the Endless Summer activities much more than his narration would lead you to believe (this wouldn't be the first time when Kyon's snarky narration acted as a thick shroud hiding his true positive feelings). Kyon is a character that, frankly, tends to deceive himself a lot - not admitting how much fun and excitement Haruhi and the SOS Brigade is genuinely bringing into his life.

Plus... remember the song "School's out for summer... school's out forever!"? It's a genuinely celebratory song that kids used to sing at the start of summer - the idea being that they were pumped over being free from school. Maybe the idea of an endless summer - of a life with out school and dreaded homework - held some appeal to Kyon.

Honestly, an endless summer is some people's idea of an utopian dream world - this could very well be Koizumi's excuse for not doing more in any event.

Last edited by Triple_R; 2009-08-10 at 10:53.
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Old 2009-08-10, 10:51   Link #880
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A possible theory I'll throw out there since I don't recall reading anything much like it...


Maybe Kyon was enjoying the Endless Summer activities much more than his narration would lead you to believe (this wouldn't be the first time when Kyon's snarky narration acting as a thick shroud hiding his true positive feelings). Kyon is a character that, frankly, tends to deceive himself a lot - not admitting how much fun and excitement Haruhi and the SOS Brigade is genuinely bringing into his life.

Plus... remember the song "School's out for summer... school's out forever!"? It's a genuinely celebratory song that kids used to sing at the start of summer - the idea being that they were pumped over being free from school. Maybe the idea of an endless summer - of a life with out school and dreaded homework - held some appeal to Kyon.

Honestly, an endless summer is some people's idea of an utopian dream world - this could very well be Koizumi's excuse for not doing more in any event.
I don't believe Kyon thinks like that.

But hell, this work for Itsuki. Don't think he cares about not having school (actually, I think he enjoy study). But not having to worry about Haruhi is surelly good for him. He constantly states he would love if Haruhi loses her powers. And since she don't feel the de va vu, it don't have any danger of her braking out. That might be why she felt so happy (come on, he only seens depressed on the restaurant scene. Even Kyon comment he seens to be enjoying the situation at the park).
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