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Old 2010-01-09, 22:16   Link #281
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
. Again, look at that trumpet playing scene at the end. What's especially scary about that is that this is a show that focuses on playing instruments yet they're already cutting corners in animating the fingering on the trumpet? It wasn't even a long or complex scene.
.
Wasn't this done in K-On! too? Something had to be cut to do the background visuals.
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Old 2010-01-09, 22:55   Link #282
Falkor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
This is one I was able to find on quick notice just skimming the episodes, there are a few others too.

**snipped**

They tried to simulate the nose arch blocking a part of her eye but it doesn't come out right. The weirdest part is probably how one eye is so much closer to her nose than the other.
it will be great if you can spoiler-tag the image so I don't have to scroll horizontally.
I will try my best to sound nice after reading your comment. you are not really criticizing the animation and/or proportions of the character designs for this particular show by using that specific image as basis, are you? not only does your observation seem just a bit forced to fit whatever you are trying to argue, but is also not quite right. did you know the animator was trying to address a 3/4 view of the face above the horizon line? I got a sense of form; and the illusion worked, proportion-wise. I'm not really sure what are you trying say exactly, or what some people has been trying to argue with regards to "something" they are not very sure about, but utterly believe it's wrong.

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Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
Yeah I addressed the animation thing earlier, and as I said earlier that's part of the problem. On top of sloppy designs it has really poor, minimalist animation. In K-on they used this style in order to easily animate a lot of complex movements and facials changes, this show however has none of that. Tons of shots that are just static pictures and most complicated movements are really choppy. Again, look at that trumpet playing scene at the end. What's especially scary about that is that this is a show that focuses on playing instruments yet they're already cutting corners in animating the fingering on the trumpet? It wasn't even a long or complex scene.

It's just... weird. They worked so hard setting the ambiance with the great sets and backgrounds along with the music and then botch the second half of the visuals.
sloppy designs?... are you talking about the character designs? are you really talking about the character designs?... or are you just talking about how the characters looked to you on screen?

poor minimalistic animation? wow.. you are not talking about the whole show, are you? Because, I can remember a couple of well animated scenes that did impress me very much.

by the way, where did you hear this show was about playing instruments? I didn't know that.
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Old 2010-01-09, 23:57   Link #283
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This first episode is pretty cool, I like the character designs to be honest, I also liked the similar designs, in Kannagi, and K-on. She's quite the agile little thing if she can do all that jump while wearing that huge backpack. Rio seems like a character I'll enjoy, as well of course Kanata, and probably that white haired girl. So when does everybody watch this show, if you don't watch it live of course? as soon as a raw/sub is released? or is there a particular day and or time? Me I'll just probably stick it on to my Saturday night new anime run.
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Old 2010-01-10, 00:19   Link #284
typhonsentra
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Wasn't this done in K-On! too? Something had to be cut to do the background visuals.
Maybe I just didn't notice, but I never noticed any distracting problems in K-On. Especially in the band scenes, it always seemed very detailed in the way they interacted with their instruments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkor View Post
it will be great if you can spoiler-tag the image so I don't have to scroll horizontally.
I will try my best to sound nice after reading your comment. you are not really criticizing the animation and/or proportions of the character designs for this particular show by using that specific image as basis, are you? not only does your observation seem just a bit forced to fit whatever you are trying to argue, but is also not quite right. did you know the animator was trying to address a 3/4 view of the face above the horizon line? I got a sense of form; and the illusion worked, proportion-wise. I'm not really sure what are you trying say exactly, or what some people has been trying to argue with regards to "something" they are not very sure about, but utterly believe it's wrong.
If you say it's fine and then it doesn't bother you then there isn't much to argue about. To me it looks like she's slightly cross-eyed and her right eye is getting dangerously close to where her ear should be.

Quote:
sloppy designs?... are you talking about the character designs? are you really talking about the character designs?... or are you just talking about how the characters looked to you on screen?
You're probably getting the wrong impression when I say sloppy. Perhaps "Moeblob" would be better but some people usually associate that with personality traits. The characters have fatter faces and bodies which are easier to draw as you don't have to worry about proportions as much. Well, I don't know if their actual bodies are like that but that's the reason why they're wearing uniforms that are several sizes too big for them (Aside from the cuteness factor, naturally).

Quote:
poor minimalistic animation? wow.. you are not talking about the whole show, are you? Because, I can remember a couple of well animated scenes that did impress me very much.
Besides the scene in that fountain area where everyone's playing I can't think of much. The lack of a lot of little details bugged me, like how the clothes drying in the wind are just 3-5 frames which loop over and over with no variation and they keep having it in the background throughout that whole conversation, or when the main girl's escort to the village leaves, they only draw one frame and have it shrink as he "Drives off", completely ignoring how bumpy the road was supposed to be on the way there. I certainly wouldn't say that's forced in noticing something like that.

I also disliked how they handled (Or cut down) on in-between animations, especially when it came to hand gesturing. In faster scenes they did well in hiding it with the main girl's clumsiness but when people were moving normally it was a little jarring.

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by the way, where did you hear this show was about playing instruments? I didn't know that.
I'd assume it is considering how much time we've spent following this girl around hearing her talk about her passion for music and coming to this village in hopes of learning more from her superiors. Not to mention the flashbacks about playing to reach peoples hearts.
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Old 2010-01-10, 01:08   Link #285
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Originally Posted by OkamiNoKaze View Post
So when does everybody watch this show, if you don't watch it live of course? as soon as a raw/sub is released? or is there a particular day and or time? Me I'll just probably stick it on to my Saturday night new anime run.
Episodes are broadcast on CR on Mondays at 10:00 AM PST (1:00 PM EST in my case, since I live in New England).

(http://www.crunchyroll.com/library/Soranowoto)

It always struck me as funny how, since Japan is basically on the other side of the Earth, time zones make the "late night anime" Japanese otaku have to lose sleep over become "watch it after lunch" anime for me.

Last edited by einhorn303; 2010-01-10 at 10:54.
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Old 2010-01-10, 06:09   Link #286
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It always struck me as funny how, since Japan is basically on the other side of the Earth, time zones makethe "late night anime" Japanese otaku have to lose sleep over become "watch it after lunch" anime for me.
After lunch anime! How wonderful!
I always am sleepy after I watched late night anime on weekdays. So it’s Hamlet choice for me “to watch live or not to watch”.
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Old 2010-01-10, 06:35   Link #287
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Originally Posted by OkamiNoKaze View Post
and probably that white haired girl.
Albinism. Though she doesn't have red eyes I think or she's wearing contacts, hehe j/k. Well she could be suffering from have Leucism I guess.
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Old 2010-01-10, 14:58   Link #288
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Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
If you say it's fine and then it doesn't bother you then there isn't much to argue about.
yes, the image itself doesn't bother me; what bothers is how some people has been so meticulous to prove that in some particular frames the characters may look wrong to them, as to argue that in itself is good/enough evidence to indicate that there's something inherently wrong with the animation/characters of the show. your comment really touched the tip of said absurd examples/arguments.

Quote:
They tried to simulate the nose arch blocking a part of her eye but it doesn't come out right. The weirdest part is probably how one eye is so much closer to her nose than the other.
Quote:
To me it looks like she's slightly cross-eyed and her right eye is getting dangerously close to where her ear should be.
no, what the animator tried to do, as I said before, was to address a 3/4 view of the face slightly above the horizon line; and there are many different ways to achieve this. you'll be surprised of how foreshortening tends to slightly distort how you perceive an image (especially if it's below or above the horizon line).

I'm not really sure of what you are trying to say. not only are you making claims that are not exactly right, but also using it as an argument to indicate that something is indeed wrong about the whole show, when "it" just "looks like".

Quote:
You're probably getting the wrong impression when I say sloppy. Perhaps "Moeblob" would be better but some people usually associate that with personality traits.
so, you were indeed talking about the character designs. I don't know how people perceive characters designs, but the character designs for this particular show are not necessarily bad if you can tell the characters apart by their different height, facial traits, clothing (?), hair style and color, etc.

Quote:
The characters have fatter faces and bodies which are easier to draw as you don't have to worry about proportions as much. Well, I don't know if their actual bodies are like that but that's the reason why they're wearing uniforms that are several sizes too big for them (Aside from the cuteness factor, naturally).
I really really really hope you can prove this assertion, that these character designs are indeed easier to draw compared to "something", because of the proportions and/or style used. In order to follow this particular style of character design, they have to pay special attention to the unique traits found in the characters, and worry just as much about proportions.

but what bothers me is how some people are calling these character designs sloppy (moeblob, whatever...) and believe that is making this show inherently wrong. If you don't like the character designs, fine; why would I argue with that? but, the thing is, there's nothing inherently wrong with these character designs or with the style used. as I said before, you can easily tell them apart by their unique traits; every single one looks different from the other---and that, I believe, is basis for the character designs of any show.

as far as the style goes, I fail to see what people seem to believe is making this show go bad. if you don't like the similitude it shares with some other show, fine---I don't care.

Quote:
Besides the scene in that fountain area where everyone's playing I can't think of much. The lack of a lot of little details bugged me, like how the clothes drying in the wind are just 3-5 frames which loop over and over with no variation and they keep having it in the background throughout that whole conversation, or when the main girl's escort to the village leaves, they only draw one frame and have it shrink as he "Drives off", completely ignoring how bumpy the road was supposed to be on the way there. I certainly wouldn't say that's forced in noticing something like that.

I also disliked how they handled (Or cut down) on in-between animations, especially when it came to hand gesturing. In faster scenes they did well in hiding it with the main girl's clumsiness but when people were moving normally it was a little jarring.
The point I was trying to make is how you were assuming that because of some scenes (you believed were not well done) you conclude that the animation/drawings of the entire show has gone bad. As I said before, I can remember some scenes with good/interesting animation, coupled with others that have good detail in them. so, am I implying this show has good animation? not really... only that this show may be not be as entirely bad as you seem to argue about.

Quote:
I'd assume it is considering how much time we've spent following this girl around hearing her talk about her passion for music and coming to this village in hopes of learning more from her superiors. Not to mention the flashbacks about playing to reach peoples hearts.
well, if you are basing your assertion in how the story has unfolded so far, it doesn't really make it about "playing instruments" either, as opposed maybe to how music is playing a part in the theme---following your description, of course.
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Old 2010-01-10, 17:54   Link #289
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ep 1

wow!! , despite the KyoAni-ish style of animation, the animation for this series is pretty damn good, eveything is well animated!!
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Old 2010-01-11, 12:54   Link #290
typhonsentra
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Guess I shouldn't of broken it down as much as I did.

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Originally Posted by Falkor View Post
yes, the image itself doesn't bother me; what bothers is how some people has been so meticulous to prove that in some particular frames the characters may look wrong to them, as to argue that in itself is good/enough evidence to indicate that there's something inherently wrong with the animation/characters of the show. your comment really touched the tip of said absurd examples/arguments.
I probably shouldn't of brought up my complaint about animation mistakes (Although I still stand by it) because it seems it diluted my original argument which was supposed to be focused on the fluidity of the character's motion and various corner cutting. To be clear I'm not necessarily opposed to the style, it's just that going with it usually is supposed to lead to higher quality animation looking at A-1's previous work, this show is a downgrade in both categories. Individual segments in Kannagi might've been less than perfect but when you compare the 1st episodes it's like night and day. People ragged on Gonzo for bad animation all the time but even they didn't release things like Woto.

Quote:
no, what the animator tried to do, as I said before, was to address a 3/4 view of the face slightly above the horizon line; and there are many different ways to achieve this. you'll be surprised of how foreshortening tends to slightly distort how you perceive an image (especially if it's below or above the horizon line).
Yeah we're probably never going to see eye to eye on this ( ... Sorry. ).

I keep looking at this thing trying to figure out why it bugs me (Besides the stuff about placement in my previous post), so I compared it to other shows on how they handle similar angles and something struck me: all they did was flip it, did squeezed the left one together about 25% and added the line for the nose over the very end of it's right side. K-On (Comparison rooted in the similar style) handles this effect by making the perspective eye much, much thinner.

Quote:
so, you were indeed talking about the character designs. I don't know how people perceive characters designs, but the character designs for this particular show are not necessarily bad if you can tell the characters apart by their different height, facial traits, clothing (?), hair style and color, etc.
Yeah, this is why I didn't want to say moeblob, it has such negative connotations.... I dunno if there's a word to describe what I'm going for that doesn't sound like an insult. But well, remember in episode 12 of K-On where Yui's singing the group's final song in front of the whole school? While she's singing her face and lips if you freeze frame it her mouth will sometimes protrude too far outside of her face in profile view as she's frantically singing but it isn't a big deal because the show's style compensates for this.

Quote:
I really really really hope you can prove this assertion, that these character designs are indeed easier to draw compared to "something", because of the proportions and/or style used. In order to follow this particular style of character design, they have to pay special attention to the unique traits found in the characters, and worry just as much about proportions.
Spoiler:


Nothing to do with style. I'm no expert but it seems like drawing body lines on slender characters is considerably more difficult than drawing ones for either a very overweight one or one that's completely covered in bulky clothes. If you accidentally draw pant legs or sleeves like these ones s little too wide or slim it'll be far less noticeable than making the same mistake with a bare arm or leg, correct?

Quote:
but what bothers me is how some people are calling these character designs sloppy (moeblob, whatever...) and believe that is making this show inherently wrong. If you don't like the character designs, fine; why would I argue with that? but, the thing is, there's nothing inherently wrong with these character designs or with the style used. as I said before, you can easily tell them apart by their unique traits; every single one looks different from the other---and that, I believe, is basis for the character designs of any show.
We're arguing around each other on this point. It's probably my fault for using language that sounded harsher than I intended.

Quote:
as far as the style goes, I fail to see what people seem to believe is making this show go bad. if you don't like the similitude it shares with some other show, fine---I don't care.
Fine.

Quote:
The point I was trying to make is how you were assuming that because of some scenes (you believed were not well done) you conclude that the animation/drawings of the entire show has gone bad. As I said before, I can remember some scenes with good/interesting animation, coupled with others that have good detail in them. so, am I implying this show has good animation? not really... only that this show may be not be as entirely bad as you seem to argue about.
And I can't think of many scenes where there wasn't some obvious corner cutting so perhaps you could describe those scenes for me. Even in the town square scene even though they're animating a lot of people many (Maybe even most) of them are simply repeating the same animation loop over and over anytime they don't use quick camera transitions/closeups of the main girl's reactions. Probably the best looking scene of the whole show was the one in the house overlooking the water while she was waiting for her clothes to dry (I mentioned the clothes before but that was a small thing in this scene).


You said before that I was stretching to find things to complain about but looking back it feels more like I'm stretching to find good aspects of the animation, a scene as simple as the one previously described being the highlight of the whole episode. The animation varied between a few scenes looking okay to way too many which were just extreme close-ups of faces, still shots, super far-off pans of the (Albeit, pretty) scenery or just plain choppy.

I should say here though that although I've said almost nothing positive about the show, aside from the animation it has pretty much everything else on the production side going for it. Solid voice acting, nice music, a pretty, well realized setting that's well painted. Heck aside from the perspective complaints I kinda like the designs too. That's why I find the final (And in my view, most important) aspect of production lacking so badly to be baffling. This isn't exactly some unknown/poor studio either.

Quote:
well, if you are basing your assertion in how the story has unfolded so far, it doesn't really make it about "playing instruments" either, as opposed maybe to how music is playing a part in the theme---following your description, of course.
Eh, seems to me it'll at least play as big a part of the story as it did in K-On. She was holding the thing throughout most of the episode and they state they'll be training her at the end, coupled with it playing a central theme in the closing credits, I don't see any reason to think this won't be a music-central show moving forward. Of course it'll have messages about friendship and junk too.
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Old 2010-01-11, 13:17   Link #291
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In photography its very common for the subject to request you edit out that "unrealistic ugly part" (yes pictures you show them at the moment you took it). Things like shoulders and so on in certain positions are common candidates. Same here, only given the medium a lot of the time they just do it wrong so people like you won't complain. Sorry reality/realistic doesn't always look good. But then I'm sure you are watching anime here, so you probably already understand that don't you...
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Old 2010-01-11, 13:23   Link #292
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Watched this yesterday and while I'm not a huge fan of similar works, the scenery porn makes it all worth it. I'm a big fan of landscapes/cityscapes, especially in animated or otherwise painted form, and this delivered. Music also helped here, excellent.

The characters and general atmosphere feels... good. Got a few hearty chuckles out of Kanata's escapades and few series has managed that. The plot itself is hiding. I have no idea what they are going to do.
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Old 2010-01-11, 13:29   Link #293
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Spoiler for So Ra No Wo Ka Ke Ru Sho U Jo 02 - I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost:
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Old 2010-01-11, 13:30   Link #294
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All I have to say in regards to the long discussions about animation, etc. is that you people need to stop nitpicking over thing like framerate (seriously, who the fuck cares?) and take the value of the show based on plot and character development. Besides, there was nothing wrong with the animation in the first place. Anyone who is paying attention to the FPS of fabric in the background has too much time on their hands.

Now for my review of the first episode...

I liked Kanata's introduction. Slightly cliche, but I like her happy-go-lucky personality. If fits, and it makes her quite cute, but I'm going with AtomicoX when I say that I have no idea where the plot is going. HOWEVER, I also take into account the fact that this is a slice-of-life type anime, which means it won't necessarily be plot intensive (though I may be wrong). Anyway, very charming show thus far. I will keep it in my queue of current shows.
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Old 2010-01-11, 14:14   Link #295
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I enjoyed ep2. I might stick with this one. The backgrounds and locations are wonderful. Very, very atmospheric. Endou Aya gets some prominence as the blonde-haired responsible and mild girl. Kitamura Eri gets the most prominence of all -- for better and worse, since I'm not normally a huge fan -- as the excitable tsundere, and she is very effective.

And here is Yuuki Aoi (Murasaki in Kurenai) in her fourth current role, each totally different from the others: bouncy young shoujo protagonist Ichigo in Yumeiro Patissiere; vicious and amazing Mina Tepes in Vampire Bund; and here the silver-haired sleepy Noelle, with the Nagato Yuki voice. And she's also in Kiruminzuu. No question, she is the up-and-coming teen seiyuu, at age 17 -- one year younger than Hayami Saori, and with more range, it appears:

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Old 2010-01-11, 15:58   Link #296
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Nausicaa with walking tanks, yes?
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Old 2010-01-11, 16:08   Link #297
orion
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Kureha gave me a headache. She's suppose to be in the military and she acts like that. Then, she says how people say how lax they are. She needs to get her act together first before picking on the newbie imo.

Other than that Kanata saved the day for me.
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Old 2010-01-11, 16:12   Link #298
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Nausicaa with walking tanks, yes?
This is nothing like Nausicaa.
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Old 2010-01-11, 16:43   Link #299
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Spoiler for ep2:
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Old 2010-01-11, 17:03   Link #300
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This anime feels like it has the potential to build into something worthwhile, to me it feels like the first few episodes will be character introduction/development, and the later half of the series will focus on the plot: which quite possibly related to that myth/the tank/ and the remains the main character saw in the lake.

The OP actually is rather reminiscent of Elfen Lied's OP animation, though no where near as disturbing/haunting.

I'll probably stick with this anime, whether it delves further into that myth and the world-setting or not will probably determine whether this anime turns out to be average, or something much more memorable.
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