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Old 2010-02-24, 21:04   Link #1061
chikorita157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It isn't unusual for even the most-loved and greatest anime to have a problematic episode (be it pacing, time budget, animation quality, etc). It is probably best to wait til series completion before either kicking or praising this episode too much.
Good advice... People seems to jump the gun and saying that x episode ruined it for them and such. The same happened to Clannad After Story well atleast 2 times for what happened to the plot for example...

Remember, it's not over yet... There is 5 episodes left and also a few bonus episodes up in the Sora no Woto pipeline.
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Old 2010-02-24, 22:13   Link #1062
OrionCA
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Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
No electric motors, pneumatic pressure system. You know there already ARE walking machines actually used - not in army though: there are few types to work in badly accessable ares like Siberia, and some woodcutting ones. Not perspective for army at current state or near future, but still usefull non less.

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...I want one.
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Old 2010-02-24, 22:34   Link #1063
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
By the way, how come this is slice-of-life, I do not think that in life it is a common occurrence: "high school adolescents to have the mental capacity of pre-school kids at their best" ... and don't bash, I am sarcastic. On a more serious note, this show has a serious identity crisis, projected to its audience
That's OK: the audience already had a serious identity crisis going in.
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Old 2010-02-25, 06:58   Link #1064
CaptGloval
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Recent developments in Sora no Woto bring me back to the time when episode 7 and 8 of Macross Frontier aired -- spectacular mecha battle and concert followed by high school hijinks and panty-chasing. At least Snw still has consistent character designs.

Should've expected something similar happening in SnW since some people in its staff was also in Frontier. There are also people from Elfen Lied, so it's remarkable that they held on to the pee for seven episodes before releasing.
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Old 2010-02-25, 17:08   Link #1065
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Shakespearean plays ALWAYS have a comedy scene after an intense scene. SOW is following that pattern. I see no problem with that.
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Old 2010-02-25, 17:55   Link #1066
Raiga
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Originally Posted by Bikerider View Post
Shakespearean plays ALWAYS have a comedy scene after an intense scene. SOW is following that pattern. I see no problem with that.
I was thinking the exact same thing. XD I mean, not that I'm trying to compare SnW to Shakespeare, but comic relief is a widely accepted narrative technique.

Maybe it worked better for me since I wasn't a week between episodes; I watched episode 7 the day before I watched episode 8.
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Old 2010-02-26, 03:10   Link #1067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerider View Post
Shakespearean plays ALWAYS have a comedy scene after an intense scene. SOW is following that pattern. I see no problem with that.
The difference being that Woto plays through a lot of anime cliches we've seen a QUADRILLION times before.

Back in Shakespeare's day, that very idea of mingling serious drama with melodrama with supernatural with comedy was mindblowingly original.

That said, I am tolerant of magical girl shows so this doesn't really faze me too much. Except when the story has genuinely interesting expositions cut in by super cliche number 1 billion.
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Old 2010-02-26, 04:46   Link #1068
scr
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Hm. Episode 8 is disgusting RuleThirtyFour.

On a completely unrelated note, recently i start playing Civilization again, especially campaign maps simulating Europe during World War I (and/or II). From what the in-game encyclopedia tells me, it seems that during that time any sort of peace were fragile and people were always ready to get to their neighbors' throat. Any diplomatic blunder can lead to war that devastates the region as countries jumped into any land-grabbing opportunity, alliances dictate that members declare war against their allies' enemies, and people got dragged into wars that were ultimately pointless for them. And people actively tried to trip their neighbors into such blunders. I can sort of understand why Rio's daddy want to drag his daughter into saving Helvetia-- the more political pawns he has, the better for Helvetia.

Hm... Sora no Woto made me study history of militarism in Europe.
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Old 2010-02-26, 04:49   Link #1069
MeoTwister5
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Old 2010-02-26, 06:48   Link #1070
Roardel
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Originally Posted by scr View Post
I can sort of understand why Rio's daddy want to drag his daughter into saving Helvetia-- the more political pawns he has, the better for Helvetia.
Maybe grand duke (or Rio's father) will use Rio as a living banner of Helvetia. Because she looks alike Princess Iliya, so most people will follow her.
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Old 2010-02-26, 07:08   Link #1071
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Back in Shakespeare's day, that very idea of mingling serious drama with melodrama with supernatural with comedy was mindblowingly original.
Not quite. He was still aping off the Greek plays and poems other people had written. And even then, it's not a matter of how "original" something is, but how it's done now.
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Old 2010-02-26, 07:09   Link #1072
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Originally Posted by Roardel View Post
Maybe grand duke (or Rio's father) will use Rio as a living banner of Helvetia. Because she looks alike Princess Iliya, so most people will follow her.
Cue shot of Rio dying her hair blond?

Or if I was the writer and wanted some cliché reveal scene I would have Rio being blond all along and have her wash off the dye in some dramatic shot.
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Old 2010-02-26, 07:33   Link #1073
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Cue shot of Rio dying her hair blond?

Or if I was the writer and wanted some cliché reveal scene I would have Rio being blond all along and have her wash off the dye in some dramatic shot.
Nah the old priest knew Rio was.

One possible reason why Rio is stationed on Seize is to protect her. I have a feeling her sister Iria have something to do with it.

Rio may not be close to her father but she is to her sister.

If indeed her sister is dead Rio is the next heir. Thus we see two possibilities. Rio takes the throne or force towards a political marriage.
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Old 2010-02-26, 07:40   Link #1074
Hypernova
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Nah the old priest knew Rio was.

One possible reason why Rio is stationed on Seize is to protect her. I have a feeling her sister Iria have something to do with it.

Rio may not be close to her father but she is to her sister.

If indeed her sister is dead Rio is the next heir. Thus we see two possibilities. Rio takes the throne or force towards a political marriage.
I'm more inclined to her taking the throne. Since if her political value lies in her being the sole heir her marrying the nation's prince would basically mean a merger of the two nations. Given that they were still fighting so recently that seems unlikely.
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Old 2010-02-26, 14:08   Link #1075
Raiga
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
The difference being that Woto plays through a lot of anime cliches we've seen a QUADRILLION times before.

Back in Shakespeare's day, that very idea of mingling serious drama with melodrama with supernatural with comedy was mindblowingly original.

That said, I am tolerant of magical girl shows so this doesn't really faze me too much. Except when the story has genuinely interesting expositions cut in by super cliche number 1 billion.
Quick skim of Wikipedia says comic relief was around since Ancient Greek times; the only difference is that it was discouraged from being used back then, while Shakespeare managed to get audiences to swallow it. But I think originality is beside the point in this case.

Some "cliche!" complaints I've never really understood. Some devices are "cliche" because quite simply, they work. That's why everyone uses them. I mentioned Shakespeare (or rather, Bikerider did and I agreed XD) as an example of the fact that comic relief really can work. Yes, it must be done right, but I don't see any problem with simply using it.

I'm also not seeing the cliche flood you're seeing in Sora no Woto. I mean, if you're going to really nitpick specific elements you'd be hard pressed to find anything anywhere that really really really "has never been done before." And even if individual elements are cliche, personally I've found the combination of elements quite fresh. Slice of life + post-apocalyptic. One is about enjoying life, the other is generally about how much life sucks. The reconciliation of these two done-before genres I've found to be one of the most interesting points of SnW. Just my opinion of course.

And anyway, as Midonin said: while originality is a factor, if you can use old tropes well, why not? (and by using them well, I also mean using them only where they work)
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Old 2010-02-26, 14:57   Link #1076
orion
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
I'm more inclined to her taking the throne. Since if her political value lies in her being the sole heir her marrying the nation's prince would basically mean a merger of the two nations. Given that they were still fighting so recently that seems unlikely.
A merger would strengthen borders. Royal female heirs were used as political pawns back then. It's the male heir that inherits the throne.
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Old 2010-02-26, 15:58   Link #1077
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Royal female heirs were used as political pawns back then. It's the male heir that inherits the throne.
Typically, yes, but not always. Take Queen Elizabeth I, for example.
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Old 2010-02-27, 02:38   Link #1078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Nah the old priest knew Rio was.

One possible reason why Rio is stationed on Seize is to protect her. I have a feeling her sister Iria have something to do with it.

Rio may not be close to her father but she is to her sister.

If indeed her sister is dead Rio is the next heir. Thus we see two possibilities. Rio takes the throne or force towards a political marriage.
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-02-27, 03:00   Link #1079
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Quick skim of Wikipedia says comic relief was around since Ancient Greek times; the only difference is that it was discouraged from being used back then, while Shakespeare managed to get audiences to swallow it. But I think originality is beside the point in this case.

Some "cliche!" complaints I've never really understood. Some devices are "cliche" because quite simply, they work. That's why everyone uses them. I mentioned Shakespeare (or rather, Bikerider did and I agreed XD) as an example of the fact that comic relief really can work. Yes, it must be done right, but I don't see any problem with simply using it.

I'm also not seeing the cliche flood you're seeing in Sora no Woto. I mean, if you're going to really nitpick specific elements you'd be hard pressed to find anything anywhere that really really really "has never been done before." And even if individual elements are cliche, personally I've found the combination of elements quite fresh. Slice of life + post-apocalyptic. One is about enjoying life, the other is generally about how much life sucks. The reconciliation of these two done-before genres I've found to be one of the most interesting points of SnW. Just my opinion of course.

And anyway, as Midonin said: while originality is a factor, if you can use old tropes well, why not? (and by using them well, I also mean using them only where they work)
I don't think we're talking about the actual science of what's original and what's not. It's all about the presentation, the illusion of making it less cliche, etc. In anime, it becomes a bit more obvious since the characters' archetypes and even their character design is a part of showing off that kind of cliche. The dolt + little girl. The sophisticated, glasses-wearing leader. The short and obnoxious antagonist. The problem with that is this is shown visually as well, so it's beyond just something being archetyped.

The problem with Woto in terms of showing its cliche is that it's too by the numbers about it. For certain other shows, they do a better job of masking it as I see it.

It's fine you would argue about the actual origins and whatnot, but I don't think that is why people are complaining.

Like you say with Shakespeare, the thing with his style was that he masked the comedy within drama and drama within comedy. He literally knew how to mask one aspect of storytelling to the next, making it a fresh way of showing off his stories. While something like this show, it goes from dramatic exposition to cliche comedy relief by the numbers. That's not to say many anime do the same thing, because they do. Again, this really doesn't erk me that much either way, but some of the tropes in this show are just painfully ordinary if you look at them by their own element.
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Old 2010-02-27, 04:58   Link #1080
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Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Quick skim of Wikipedia says comic relief was around since Ancient Greek times; the only difference is that it was discouraged from being used back then, while Shakespeare managed to get audiences to swallow it. But I think originality is beside the point in this case.
I don't see how this episode was comic relief, if we take the first six episodes into account. It seems more accurate to say episode 7 was dramatic relief.
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