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Old 2009-08-18, 22:59   Link #241
Archer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat-Kun View Post
Has anyone else seen the scene where:
Spoiler for EP 5:

I hope noone's posted this before :P
Actually, that's been a subject of some controversy in the last few pages.
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Old 2009-08-18, 23:59   Link #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Knox's Commandments:
The problem here is that the number of people (or at least a max) has been stated in red in previous games. The only way we could go around this would be if we can go around the meaning for "people".

V. No Chinaman must figure into the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Knox's Commandments:
Erika doesn't really matter in this case, since she was confirmed not to be a culprit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Knox's Commandments:
I think it was said in red he hasn't committed any murders. All we know is that an action of his, in the past, is related to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Knox's Commandments:
I wonder about this. In EP4, Battler heard and met with Beato. He stated she wasn't a woman he had met before. One could assume someone was posing as her, but Battler also said hers wasn't a voice he could recognise. So, going along with this, we'd have to assume there's a woman (a human, not a witch) who looks like Beato in the island (who, apparently, knows Battler from quite some time ago, since she seems to know of his English catchphrases). Kyrie and Rosa met her too in EP2 (but, I don't know if that's a POV we can trust, and I won't even bring Shannon and Kanon into this).

There's also the bit in EP5 where he met with Kinzo. (Erika didn't seem to have noticed him, though).
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Old 2009-08-19, 00:26   Link #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosDimension View Post
Ok, that was cocky of my and for that I apologize. Here is my theory that might reveal some insight.

Spoiler for Theory with spoilers:


And that's just the first part. Now try reading Dine's commandments and see if that doesn't void a lot more theories. Dine's commandments are located here.

http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/vandine.htm
Like K/eternal said, that's nowhere from a theory. Furthermore, you didn't read Episode 5, so you didn't check the real wording of the knox commandement he used.

N°2: It doesn't state supernatural things are prohibited: the commandement prevents the detective to use any supernatural means (so, red text)
N°3: Dlanor stated clearly there are no secret passage at all.
N°4: the commandement doesn't contradict being drunk: the effect of alcohol are known and they can cause a very powerful effect, especially for those who are not used in drinking it. Long scientific explanations are however subject to author discretion.
N°5: Not used at all (and since Erika is considered as "no influence to Beato's game", it doesn't contradict with Knox original commandement)
N°6: the wording prevents any assertions or lucky elements.
N°7: Battler is not the detective in Episode 5, which was proved thoroughly in the ura tea party
N°9: This rule is totally different from the original commandement. The ninth rule allow the observer to insist on their own interpretation.

There is absolutely no proof he will bring up Van Dine, especially that Umineko certainly doesn't follow that much Van Dine's usual: love interest is quite lurking here and the red itself is a giant no-no for VD, so using VD's commandements would be really more a problem than real clue.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-08-19 at 01:38.
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Old 2009-08-19, 01:25   Link #244
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Okay, finally finished!

Spoiler for random thoughts, in no particular order through to the end of the ??? party:

Last edited by milkypink; 2009-08-19 at 01:42. Reason: changed Dlanol -> Dlanor, thanks k//eternal!
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Old 2009-08-19, 01:35   Link #245
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Regarding the spelling of the character Dlanol/Dranol/etc., it should probably be "Dlanor", because Knox's first name was Ronald.

Just an FYI to everyone.
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Old 2009-08-19, 01:51   Link #246
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milkypink:
-It seems Erika didn't bother taping the rest, because she was taking care of the guesthouse. What is actually strange, indeed, is the fact Eva tapped Genji's room only, unless she deliberately didn't mention that to pin down Natsuhi.

-Erika's preparations were extreme, but her reasoning behind that wasn't bad at all: Battler got suddenly 20 billion, something that can spark gruesome stuff quite naturally. Since the setup was already favorable for that (typhoon, big inheritance, odd riddle etc), there isn't anything strange for an excentric detective to do that.

-Battler's understanding isn't about the truth, but about how his true objective should be: Erika is the spite image of what he was doing from the start (albeit restrained by his own humanity and feelings for the relatives and servants), and now "truth" is more important than simply denying the witches, because the latter can be easily proved with forgery or ignoring evidence, which Erika did.

-Hideyoshi was probably killed in order to frame Natsuhi. There is no proof there was any telephone call (even with Krauss' death red statement), but it was confirmed with the button evidence that Natsuhi was hiding there.

-If the culprit was observing Erika's behavior, it is very likely they can notice that she was already on the move (especially the paper tape). So they stopped that in order not to be caught and/or to frame Natsuhi even more.
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Old 2009-08-19, 01:53   Link #247
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What if they are using the dead bodies as food? After all, it seems Gohda can make anything taste delicious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
Regarding the spelling of the character Dlanol/Dranol/etc., it should probably be "Dlanor", because Knox's first name was Ronald.
Oh, this makes sense. Thanks.
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Old 2009-08-19, 03:32   Link #248
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More notes!

Spoiler for Ep5 Spoilers:


More Notes egads!

Spoiler for Ep5 Spoilers:


Here's some more!!

Spoiler for Ep5 Spoilers:


Here's the current set of Red Truth:

Spoiler for Red Truth!!:


Also it seems Kamar's havign a hard time keeping up with the summaries. Since I have the next 2 days off due to government holidays I can take over the summaries when he stops if he's fine with it. At the rate's he's going he's likely to turn his brain into mush.

Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2009-08-19 at 08:28.
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Old 2009-08-19, 10:04   Link #249
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I've officially gone past the scenes summarized by Kamar so everything I post from here on will run in parallel with him or probably just beyond.

Essentially, the contents of this post are summaries of events after the ones posted by Kamar. I'll counter check it with him when he's done.

Spoiler for Ep5 Summaries:


Yes ladies and gentlemen shit has officially hit the fan. I now wonder how this all affects the claim of an exact number of people on the island.

On that note I go to bed. I've been on this game for the better part of 10 hours. That's not good for my health at all.

Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2009-08-19 at 11:02.
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Old 2009-08-19, 11:12   Link #250
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I've been thinking

can we confirm that the mastermind in all 5 games is the same person?

If the mastermind is the same, then what about the suposed co-conspirators? Does it change from game to game?

Is episode 3's ending a case where things did not proceed as planned for the mastermind and he himself was murdered by Eva?
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Old 2009-08-19, 11:18   Link #251
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There is no proof the mastermind is always the same. There is most likely a main one, but like in Higurashi, maybe in some Episodes, things turned south.
That said, it is also possible there are co-conspirators, but these might be just spontaneous and not planned that long ago.
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Old 2009-08-19, 13:52   Link #252
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I think it more likely there are multiple plots, but only one plotter "wins" each time. As to who and which times they win, that's a matter for speculation threads. But I kind of am hoping that there is not one single mastermind behind everything. It seems corny.
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:00   Link #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I think it more likely there are multiple plots, but only one plotter "wins" each time. As to who and which times they win, that's a matter for speculation threads. But I kind of am hoping that there is not one single mastermind behind everything. It seems corny.
I try to look at what's in common between the games. For example, Kinzo's corpse is burned without fail in each episode just like Takano's was in Higurashi. However, there's no way Kinzo can be the culprit because of all the red/gold text that counters that theory. (Mabye there will be something revealed in a later episode that puts Kinzo back into play?)

I think there will be a main mastermind behind the mysteries and it will be interesting to see who were accomplices and in which games.
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:34   Link #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
I try to look at what's in common between the games. For example, Kinzo's corpse is burned without fail in each episode just like Takano's was in Higurashi. However, there's no way Kinzo can be the culprit because of all the red/gold text that counters that theory. (Mabye there will be something revealed in a later episode that puts Kinzo back into play?)
Even if Kinzo is dead, it's not like his plans can't still be being put into motion. The entire thing with the letters, the money, the roulette in general... could easily be a plan he'd set up long before his death.
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:45   Link #255
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Yeah, if the mastermind is a single person, my chips are on Kinzo.
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:48   Link #256
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While reading the initial part of EP5, this idea occurs to me:

Spoiler for idea:


Off to read the rest tomorrow. Hope this tip can be of any help?
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:48   Link #257
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Orders are orders I suppose.
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:51   Link #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwy View Post
While reading the initial part of EP5, this idea occurs to me:

Spoiler for idea:


Off to read the rest tomorrow. Hope this tip can be of any help?
There is no need for Beatrice to "hallucinate", since she was weave whatever she wants (i.e: witches battle etc).
However, Bern stated several times in red that Kinzo was Natsuhi's delusion.
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:55   Link #259
Ssol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Even if Kinzo is dead, it's not like his plans can't still be being put into motion. The entire thing with the letters, the money, the roulette in general... could easily be a plan he'd set up long before his death.
Ok, that is possible. Mabye someone is badly misinterpreting the epitaph each game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
Yeah, if the mastermind is a single person, my chips are on Kinzo.
But do you believe there could be a main murderer for all the games? If you think it's Kinzo what about all the evidence that has been presented against him? It seems each episode adds more to the whole 'There is no way it could be Kinzo'.
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Old 2009-08-19, 14:57   Link #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
But do you believe there could be a main murderer for all the games?
Not really, no. I'm just saying if there's a single mastermind, I think it's Kinzo.

The "multiple teams" theory makes more sense to me, though.
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