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Old 2010-07-09, 23:52   Link #3041
Oliver
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The only way to get that twist is to redefine the Battler Camera, which arguably makes it impossible to tell whether we're getting any truth in white text ever at all.

But it allows Person X-trice.
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Old 2010-07-10, 00:42   Link #3042
Disz
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Kannon maybe,but Sayo certainly does have a life.When Jessica told George to go out with Sayo,he said he didn't want to get in her personal life outside of the family.She says she doesn't really have a boyfriend,so it's ok.
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Old 2010-07-10, 00:46   Link #3043
Oliver
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So George thinks Sayo has a personal life. And this is an indication of her having any kind of personal life how exactly?
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Old 2010-07-10, 00:49   Link #3044
Disz
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Oi.That's right. >.< If only George were a sorcerer...he could of pulled it off in EP4 too..
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Old 2010-07-10, 00:49   Link #3045
Renall
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
So George thinks Sayo has a personal life. And this is an indication of her having any kind of personal life how exactly?
Well obviously he is her personal life. This is George, remember.
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Old 2010-07-10, 01:13   Link #3046
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Alan Wolfrau View Post
Greetings, everyone. I'm new to this forum, so before you allow me to speak, let me introduce myself.
Alan de Ouralfald de Wolfrau, the Heresy Inquisitor of Ordo Hereticus.
At your service.
Please, allow me to use blue when i need it.
That's all. Nice to meet you all /smile/

Now, allow me to ask - now you all talking about the mirror. But did you forget about the shrine? By the Jessica's words, it was crushed by lighting... but what if it was some kind of exploison, caused by Shannon? Or fire?
Allow me to use blue: By "breaking" Shannon means a complete destruction of something related to her past, personality and fate. And this "something" was in the shrine/shrine itself/building that looks like a shrine
That's all for now.
Hello Alan, welcome to the forum.

Thing is, the dates we were given for Shannon breaking the mirror and the shrine exploding seriously don't match up at all. The explosion happened over the summer, and Shannon broke the mirror in what, December 1985? So there's at least a five or six month delay after anything she could have done over there. There's a theory that the shrine was sealing off a volcanic gas vent and she accidentally damaged the seal when she broke the mirror, but the argument for it is pretty speculative.

Hey Oliver, wasn't there another serious discrepancy with the dates around there that we were talking about a while back? I can't remember what it was though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disz View Post
Spoiler for Sayotrice:
What kind of perspective switch is that supposed to be?
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Old 2010-07-10, 01:21   Link #3047
Disz
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I'm not sure.I noticed Umineko tends to do that alot.
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Old 2010-07-10, 01:22   Link #3048
Renall
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I'm not sure.I noticed Umineko tends to do that alot.
It's probably my biggest criticism. Maybe it's better in Japanese, but the perspective jumps really need to be better telegraphed.
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Old 2010-07-10, 01:30   Link #3049
LyricalAura
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It happens at the exact moment that Beatrice shows up, though. It might be a deliberate warning flag instead of a writing issue.
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Old 2010-07-10, 01:31   Link #3050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
It's probably my biggest criticism. Maybe it's better in Japanese, but the perspective jumps really need to be better telegraphed.
I'm pretty sure the reason it makes those sudden changes so much is partly to confuse the readers thus making it so people will miss clues or forget about certain clues.
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Old 2010-07-10, 01:34   Link #3051
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There are times when it's clear what the intent was, like when they jump into one of the siblings' memories for a flashback, but they're very abrupt changes. It's not hard to adapt, it just seems pretty awkward. I wasn't taught to write that way.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2010-07-10, 02:00   Link #3052
Disz
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
It happens at the exact moment that Beatrice shows up, though. It might be a deliberate warning flag instead of a writing issue.
True,I'll check up on that when I read.
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Old 2010-07-10, 02:02   Link #3053
Kylon99
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Ok, there is more about the mirror from EP6 that I'd like to mention because it's relevant, but I can't as this is the EP5 thread.... 8)

EDIT: My answer is in the EP6 thread now.
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Old 2010-07-10, 02:09   Link #3054
Oliver
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Hey Oliver, wasn't there another serious discrepancy with the dates around there that we were talking about a while back? I can't remember what it was though...
That actually was the discrepancy that you quoted the anime dates on me for. If I were to reason out dates from the text, Shannon's random meeting with George in an aquarium and the associated mirror breaking would have to happen shortly before the 1985 conference and overlap with Kinzo's death. By dates given in the anime, mirror breaking occurs in December 1985 and therefore, happens while Kinzo is already dead, and according to the text, the shrine 'is destroyed by a violet thunderbolt' sometime in summer 1986.

Anime gives dates for these scenes and screws everything off track making Shannon do nothing interesting about her love for George for an extra year.
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Old 2010-07-10, 02:34   Link #3055
Disz
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Damn.What if they just found out late?Though that just means I'm doubting most white text.I'm not sure what I can trust.
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Old 2010-07-10, 02:47   Link #3056
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
It's probably my biggest criticism. Maybe it's better in Japanese, but the perspective jumps really need to be better telegraphed.
It might be some kind of clue. Like there's someone else in that scene besides Shannon, but I find that highly improbable.
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Old 2010-07-10, 05:49   Link #3057
Alan Wolfrau
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Allow me to speak.
It's only my opinion, but I think we are starting to get a Deep Meaning Searching Syndrome. /smile/
Yeah, what Disz and LyricalAura says is true, but what if it just an author/translator mistake? Even if it looks suspicious, it is... mmm... how I can say... almost like this is a special trick to lead out our reasoning line away to a wrong direction.
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Old 2010-07-10, 08:45   Link #3058
Jan-Poo
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The narrator in umineko is one of the things I trust the less. It tends to describe things from the pov of the most clueless spectator. If there isn't one, it just switches to an imaginary clueless spectator with sentences like:

"seeing that scene one could think that..."

yeah...
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Old 2010-07-10, 08:48   Link #3059
Pika_power
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Well as we know from Onikakushi-hen, Ryukishi loves unreliable narrators, and it appears to be the entire premise of Umineko. So I'd use fantasy scenes as guidelines, and question all non-Battlercam scenes as much as possible.

07151129...

Either:

a) A hint at Battler's sin/heritage.
b) The number to a safe as a reward for Nanjo helping with the crime.

Last edited by Pika_power; 2010-07-11 at 21:11.
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Old 2010-07-15, 07:39   Link #3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
It is still an unanswered question whether Shannon and/or Kanon have any off-island lodgings, actually get paid, or even actually exist as far as the law is concerned. We imagine they have to, but none of the stuff is ever mentioned.

I wonder though, could it be that neither of them actually exist in the first place, not even a Sayo to play both...
Doesn't Shannon say she has a decent amount saved up?
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