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Old 2010-07-16, 13:43   Link #3121
Judoh
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Well I think people pin Nanjo because he was Kinzo's best friend and Gaap is Beatrice's best friend. That and it's funny to imagine him wearing a dress.

I'm interested in why you think Gaap is Rosa though because she actually has a decent chance to be the killer who stays behind in episode 3 and of course she's suspicious in episode 2.
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Old 2010-07-16, 13:49   Link #3122
Ssol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Unfortunately if Shannon and Kanon are indeed thought to be sufficiently alike, this scheme does not offer them significant benefits -- If anyone suspects Kanon may dress up as a girl, anyone can suspect him of being Beatrice, so what's the structural difference? Isn't it easier to just let Kanon be Beatrice in the first place instead?
Would it not be the case where a female disguising one's voice as Beatrice would be less risky (of being caught) than a male doing so? I suppose that's the only reason why I would select their roles accordingly.
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Old 2010-07-16, 14:04   Link #3123
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I'm interested in why you think Gaap is Rosa though because she actually has a decent chance to be the killer who stays behind in episode 3 and of course she's suspicious in episode 2.
I've posted a chain which cannot be proof but feels fairly solid to me. Since that was long ago and looking for that post is hard, let me type it all again...
  • Maria seems to be the source of most of the imagery of the magical world.
  • Maria's room is in a constant state of memorised chaos, if anything is moved she won't find it (Ep4). Gaap's power is moving seemingly lost objects, as described by Maria. (Ep1 and up) Only person who can move anything in Maria's room is Rosa, therefore Maria ascribes Rosa's actions to Gaap.
  • Rosa appears to have a taste for younger men, which taste normally stays unfullfilled. (Ep4) Gaap expresses admiration for George which has clear hints of sexual undertones (Ep4) and the phrase "Only if he's hot!" fits very well with this. George is within age range for Rosa (30-34 vs 23) to be considered a younger man suitable for coveting. (if not actually going through with it due to familial relation)
  • Gaap is the only character showing any interest in clothing, and her taste in fashion is called ridiculous. (Ep4) Rosa runs a largely unsuccessful fashion design company and is reported to have made much of her clothes herself. (Ep2 and up)
  • Gaap is "friends with Beatrice" (Ep4). Rosa is on the most friendly terms with all the servants (Ep2) and in particular Shannon (Ep2, she even offers to drink coffee with her) which for any other Ushiromiya sibling would be unthinkable.

My impression is that Rosa/Gaap triggers when the First Letter is in one way or another not delivered as expected, which occurs in Ep4 and Ep5. Only in this case Gaap is "summoned", i.e. Rosa is asked to do something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Would it not be the case where a female disguising one's voice as Beatrice would be less risky (of being caught) than a male doing so? I suppose that's the only reason why I would select their roles accordingly.
That only depends on who's going to ever see that Beatrice. Most of the time, only Maria does, and we don't know anything specific about the identity of Maria's Beatrice.
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Old 2010-07-16, 14:31   Link #3124
Leafsnail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I want a spinoff where Natsuhi runs the PTA at Jessica's school. With witch battles.
Oh god yes.

Rosa/ Gaap theory seems to make sense. The fashion link seems to be the most clear. Plus... well, noone dislikes Rosa (except Maria sometimes, I guess). She could probably get almost anyone to go along with her.
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Old 2010-07-16, 14:33   Link #3125
Ssol
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  • In episode 1, Rosa comments to Maria that she is sorry for everything just prior to the first twilight. It was not audiable to anyone but is this a clue of prior knowledge of the incident?
  • In episode 2, Rosa appears in the chapel with all the other adults prior to the first twilight. After the first twilight three gold bars are found on the table next to the victims. In episode 3, Rosa appears in the corridor after Eva finds the gold but is it just a coincidence that Rosa was there at that exact moment?
  • In episode 3, her sudden confession of killing Beatrice allowed for the first twilight be setup without problems. Was it intentional?
  • In episode 4, she is a first twilight victim. However, some believe that this was a staged performance the culprit had taken advantage of.
  • In episode 5, she is a first twilight victim again. This time, it is confirmed that the deaths were faked upon initial discovery.
It appears as though Ryukishi has sufficiently warned us of Rosa's FFT involvement.
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Old 2010-07-16, 16:49   Link #3126
Leafsnail
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Rosa does seem to die early a lot.

I was thinking the reason she survived longer in ep2 was because of the halloween candy and staying out in the garden with Maria (the culprit seems to have some kind of rapport with Maria).
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Old 2010-07-16, 17:01   Link #3127
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Rosa does seem to die early a lot.
"Die early a lot" or "seem to die early a lot"?

Though, if you are actually involved in a fake first twilight as an organiser, and someone else plans to use it as an opportunity to kill someone, taking out those involved in organising it early if possible is only prudent, if you aren't planning to pin the crime on them -- otherwise they might alert the survivors.
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Old 2010-07-16, 20:51   Link #3128
Leafsnail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
"Die early a lot" or "seem to die early a lot"?

Though, if you are actually involved in a fake first twilight as an organiser, and someone else plans to use it as an opportunity to kill someone, taking out those involved in organising it early if possible is only prudent, if you aren't planning to pin the crime on them -- otherwise they might alert the survivors.
Looks like I unintentionally hit both meanings, heh.

I guess this probably means Rosa fakes being dead along with the rest most of the time (although ep3 keeps it purely among the servants).
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Old 2010-07-16, 21:09   Link #3129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
In episode 1, Rosa comments to Maria that she is sorry for everything just prior to the first twilight. It was not audiable to anyone but is this a clue of prior knowledge of the incident?
I think she was just apologizing for all the stuff that is showed in ep4. Also ep5 hinted that the "killing" of Sakutaro happened little time before the conference so she probably was sorry for that.
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Old 2010-07-16, 22:38   Link #3130
winter 923
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Rosa does seem to fit Beatrice. That would mean that she lied about Kinzo getting mad for naming her Child Maria and the name does lead to the Gold afterall. In EP4 Kinzo does aprove Maria. How many people actually said that Kinzo and Maria do not get along?
Also the Epitaph was created after Marias birth, to be exactly it was in his last year he was seen alive, so it is basicly his testament. There is also no reason for Beatrice to love Battler (the last time she saw him he was 12 or 13) and a reason to love him (now a young hottie)
But i do not see a single 19, 6 or 7 connecting Rosa other that she met Beatrice 19 years ago. Not even with the l theory.
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Old 2010-07-16, 22:44   Link #3131
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Oliver,you're genius.Gaap has been under my suspicion for a while,though for a minute I almost dropped as low to say it was Gohda.
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Old 2010-07-17, 04:51   Link #3132
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Well, he is the only servant without a corresponding demon...

Although the fact he never has any idea what's going on in any fantasy scene is part of what makes him compelling .
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Old 2010-07-17, 06:20   Link #3133
Oliver
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There is an idea that Gohda is what goes into the Goats, all of them, but there's little support for it.
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Old 2010-07-21, 02:32   Link #3134
Judoh
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I'm on a reread through episode 5 and I'm already noticing things I didn't before.

First off Nanjo has memories from time when Kinzo" was suddenly selected to become the family head". Not sure if that affects Nanjo's age any, but people with time lines might want to look at that.

Another thing I noticed is that one of Krauss's contacts that supposedly got swindled in the moon tourism thing with him is a "Mr. Sonezaki". Higurashi references again...
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Old 2010-07-21, 08:22   Link #3135
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Where is it that part? Are you sure Nanjo isn't simply saying what Kinzo might have told him?
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Old 2010-07-21, 11:07   Link #3136
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There were two weird things I noticed before in Ep 5, and I don't remember if I brought them up before.

1) Kinzo was apparently really into mysteries, and apparently owned several original copies of ENGLISH mystery novels. Apparently his mystery library was in the guest house.

2) Nanjo knows enough English to read those mystery novels too.

Those two things seemed really weird and off to me.
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Old 2010-07-21, 11:16   Link #3137
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Doesn't Nanjo struggle a bit to read what's over the chapel in ep2? He can read it, but he hardly seems proficient at it. George and Maria have the easiest time.
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Old 2010-07-21, 11:20   Link #3138
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Dude, Nanjo is just too ****ing suspicious.

Maybe that's what Bern meant by this tale being "And Then There Were No Ackroyds".
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Old 2010-07-21, 13:17   Link #3139
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I think almost every theory has him pegged as an accomplice. Just because he survives too damn long in every episode.
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Old 2010-07-21, 14:04   Link #3140
ErenselTheJester
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Of course, he is an acclomplice in some sense. The fact that he's on the island pretty much states that he'll take part in some operation if not having any relevant part in it outside of faking autopsies.
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