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Old 2011-10-22, 21:18   Link #3201
AuraTwilight
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No she wasn't there the whole time actually. Did you forgot that Erika started to seal every window after she left the mansion?.
Yes, and...? She was sealing the doors and windows. You don't think she'd notice someone enter or leave if she was outside the entrances?

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now consider this fact, they never said in Red that the knocked happened on 24:00 and it was only implied by rudolf and erika. This lead me to believe that the Clock in the dining hall was Altered to fool all those inside the dining hall and to fool us.
They never said the knock happened AT ALL.

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Sorry,i don't believe that the knock and the letter never existed though. Everything that happened in umineko have an explanation other than they all lied about it.
Really? Can you prove that? Because as Will pretty much confirms, a lot of riddles basically break down to it, like lying about door-chains and locks.

Moreover, the red doesn't allow ANYONE to make that damn knock, much less the cousins. The whole thing was basically a setup to implicate Natsuhi since Erika, Lambda, and Bern are all teaming up.
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Old 2011-10-22, 23:38   Link #3202
unsuspectingvisitor
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Yes, and...? She was sealing the doors and windows. You don't think she'd notice someone enter or leave if she was [I]outside the entrances?
outside the entrances? i thought she was sealing the windows. Consider the placement of the windows though so that you can understand what i mean. Some windows are also found on the side of the house.Well what if erika was ductaping the side windows at the time george arrived in front of the guesthouse?
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They never said the knock happened AT ALL.
but this red truth said something different.
also
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at 24:00, except for Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji in the second floor corridor and all of the people in the dining hall, no humans existed inside the mansion.
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Let it be known that in addition to Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji, none of those in the dining hall made the knock. In this sense, 'knock' includes all direct, indirect, intentional, unintentional, and coincidental events that could create a knocking sound.
this red acknowledge the knock but it wasn't made by those humans inside the mansion.
Really? Can you prove that? Because as Will pretty much confirms, a lot of riddles basically break down to it, like lying about door-chains and locks.
[/QUOTE]
No actually your right there's alot of lies in all the episodes But if you think about Ep5 its different from the other. Battler and Erika Solve the Epitapt so there's no point for beatrice or to them to lie about the knock and the letter.
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Moreover, the red doesn't allow ANYONE to make that damn knock, much less the cousins. The whole thing was basically a setup to implicate Natsuhi since Erika, Lambda, and Bern are all teaming up.
It doesn't implicate natsuhi at all since all the red truth we seen so far was about this case. None of red said that natsuhi place the letter and knocked on the door.

Thas what this red told us.
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In short, this means it was impossible for any character within the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND. ......And 'any character' refers even to unobserved people that no one has noticed.
this red was connected to the two reds above . So this red must be also talking about the "every human inside the mansion at 24:00".
Well I have a theory that the clock was inacurrate or somebody mess up the clock so that it would sound other than 12:00.
if this theory is true then There's a possibility that the Knock happened before 24:00. So if that was the case we don't have any problems with the red truth at all since the one who knock already left the mansion before 24:00.
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Old 2011-10-23, 01:27   Link #3203
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outside the entrances? i thought she was sealing the windows. Consider the placement of the windows though so that you can understand what i mean. Some windows are also found on the side of the house.Well what if erika was ductaping the side windows at the time george arrived in front of the guesthouse?
Psst...she's ducktaping the doors too, bro.

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this red acknowledge the knock but it wasn't made by those humans inside the mansion.
The red describes knocks, but doesn't confirm one exists. It only says that different things didn't cause a knock. IT NEVER SAYS A KNOCK WAS CAUSED AT ALL.

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No actually your right there's alot of lies in all the episodes But if you think about Ep5 its different from the other. Battler and Erika Solve the Epitapt so there's no point for beatrice or to them to lie about the knock and the letter.
You're right, but Lambda's the one who did it, not Beatrice.

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It doesn't implicate natsuhi at all since all the red truth we seen so far was about this case. None of red said that natsuhi place the letter and knocked on the door.
*directs you to how the three deliberately neglected to give Natsuhi an alibi*
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Old 2011-10-23, 02:28   Link #3204
unsuspectingvisitor
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Psst...she's ducktaping the doors too, bro.
it is implied that she duck tape every possible entrance. that means she wasn't always present at the front door since all the door was already sealed. now she need to duck taped all the windows.
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The red describes knocks, but doesn't confirm one exists. It only says that different things didn't cause a knock. IT NEVER SAYS A KNOCK WAS CAUSED AT ALL.
but that doesn't deny the fact that the knock was heard by everyone inside the dining hall. especially by rudolf.

Well the idea that the whole thing was just a big lie have many problems in it. for example,they never told erika about the whole knock and the letter thing though. So what is the point of all that?

For me it can only make sense if shannon/kanon planned the whole thing for Battler and Erika. To welcome battler and to gave the ring and Possibly her revenge for maria.But in the end it become useless because erika didn't went to dining hall at that time.
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You're right, but Lambda's the one who did it, not Beatrice.
fair enough.
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*directs you to how the three deliberately neglected to give Natsuhi an alibi*
wait what you said doesn't make sense.
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Old 2011-10-23, 03:02   Link #3205
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it is implied that she duck tape every possible entrance. that means she wasn't always present at the front door since all the door was already sealed. now she need to duck taped all the windows.
Right, and if someone leaves after she ducktaped the doors, the seal is broken, AND THEN SHE KNOWS THAT SOMEONE LEFT, BUT SHE NEVER BRINGS THIS UP.

No one can enter or leave with Erika knowing. Period.

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but that doesn't deny the fact that the knock was heard by everyone inside the dining hall. especially by rudolf.
It's not a fact. No red states that anyone heard a knock.

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Well the idea that the whole thing was just a big lie have many problems in it. for example,they never told erika about the whole knock and the letter thing though. So what is the point of all that?
To trick us, Battler, Natsuhi, Beatrice, etc. It's purely a meta-scam.

Remember how Virgilia warned that Bern and Lambda would do things that Beato COULD do, but WOULDN'T do? Yea.

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For me it can only make sense if shannon/kanon planned the whole thing for Battler and Erika. To welcome battler and to gave the ring and Possibly her revenge for maria.But in the end it become useless because erika didn't went to dining hall at that time.
The reds deny this. Shannon/Kanon couldn't of done the knock and letter.

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wait what you said doesn't make sense.
No, you're not paying attention. Every action Lambda, Bern, and Erika take is set up to frame Natsuhi as the culprit. This knock/letter thing is an example. Everyone is given immunity from it, but not Natsuhi.

Yea, she couldn't of done it, technically, but she's the only one not given protection under the Red the way everyone else is.
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Old 2011-10-23, 03:56   Link #3206
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Right, and if someone leaves after she ducktaped the doors, the seal is broken, AND THEN SHE KNOWS THAT SOMEONE LEFT, BUT SHE NEVER BRINGS THIS UP.

No one can enter or leave with Erika knowing. Period.
But my actual point was one of the cousin already left the room before Erika returned to the guesthouse. Since there's no evidence that she sealed the cousin room there's a possibility that who ever left the cousin room can return without Erika knowing about it. If at that time she still putting duct tape in all the windows.
that red was only affective during this time.
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From 1:00 AM to 3:00 AM, Erika, Nanjo, and Gohda spent their time in the lounge on the first floor of the guesthouse.
its not all the time though. she wasn't there before 1:00 because she followed and stalked dr. nanjo during his trip to the library.
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It's not a fact. No red states that anyone heard a knock.
well that wrong on my part. i'll just say its implied. Implied in red truth, in the narration,and in dialogue..
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To trick us, Battler, Natsuhi, Beatrice, etc. It's purely a meta-scam.

Remember how Virgilia warned that Bern and Lambda would do things that Beato COULD do, but WOULDN'T do? Yea.
Wait. Battler never complained about it. Natsuhi doesn't now about it(she's on the second floor). Beato wasn't even conscious in that game. The only person that was meta-scammed as you said it was Erika.

to trick us? don't be ridiculous. it doesn't even matter to us since its not relevant to the game.

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The reds deny this. Shannon/Kanon couldn't of done the knock and letter.
Did you forgot the possibility of an accomplice? this is what im talking about from the beginning though that one of the cousin did it. I just can't express the idea vividly due to my limited knowledge of english.

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No, you're not paying attention. Every action Lambda, Bern, and Erika take is set up to frame Natsuhi as the culprit. This knock/letter thing is an example. Everyone is given immunity from it, but not Natsuhi.

Yea, she couldn't of done it, technically, but she's the only one not given protection under the Red the way everyone else is.
She lost her alibi because "the man from 18 year ago" wants her to stay in her room. Not because of the knock/letter thing.
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Old 2011-10-23, 07:04   Link #3207
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
Sorry,i don't believe that the knock and the letter never existed though. Everything that happened in umineko have an explanation other than they all lied about it.
If you finished EP8 (at least EP7) try reading the TIP Forgery No.xxx.
Spoiler for Knock and letter:
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Old 2011-10-23, 11:21   Link #3208
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
But my actual point was one of the cousin already left the room before Erika returned to the guesthouse. Since there's no evidence that she sealed the cousin room there's a possibility that who ever left the cousin room can return without Erika knowing about it. If at that time she still putting duct tape in all the windows.
That can't have happened, though - in reviewing the scene where Erika discusses the situation in the Guesthouse, she is rather specific about her movements. The only potential problem are that the red truths do seem to be working on an "approximate" time when they give specific hours in these cases.

According to Erika, after the gold was discovered, she went with the cousins to the Guesthouse, immediately sealed all outside windows, and then played cards with them until midnight. They were never able to deliver a letter to the mansion before midnight, because Erika was always with them when the knock / letter allegedly happened.

Even if one argues that "a cousin might have left while Erika was taping the windows on the opposite side of the guesthouse", it is very likely (almost assured) that she taped the front door immediately behind her, and would have known that someone had left.

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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
well that wrong on my part. i'll just say its implied. Implied in red truth, in the narration,and in dialogue..
The knock being implied by the red truth is often take as another instance of Lambda playing in a way that Beatrice typically would not. It creates a very false impression, but doesn't say anything. For example, Battler may be able to say something like My son isn't on Rokkenjima today. It's certainly the truth, despite him not having a son at all, right?

Also, lots of things are implied in the narrative that are simply lies. Narration, dialogue, and red truth imply that Maria recieved the chapel key from Beatrice in Turn, and we all know how that turned out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
Wait. Battler never complained about it. Natsuhi doesn't now about it(she's on the second floor). Beato wasn't even conscious in that game. The only person that was meta-scammed as you said it was Erika.

to trick us? don't be ridiculous. it doesn't even matter to us since its not relevant to the game.
Not true. I believe the knock / letter riddle serve two purposes - firstly, to show us the limitations in Erika's sort of thinking. Secondly, similar to the cheese-cutting and coin-cup riddles, it offers a blanket solution of "yeah, that was bullshit" for things that have not been verified. Quite alot of Chiru is aimed directly from Ryukishi to us about "how to read this story", so to speak.


Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
Did you forgot the possibility of an accomplice? this is what im talking about from the beginning though that one of the cousin did it. I just can't express the idea vividly due to my limited knowledge of english.
We already know that the cousins are sort-of accomplices in this game, because they faked their deaths. It seems unduly complicated, though, to have this complex stealth placement of the letter to contort around the red truth. A far simpler solution is evident, and it's bad enough when Shkanon does things just to get around reds... T_T



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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
She lost her alibi because "the man from 18 year ago" wants her to stay in her room. Not because of the knock/letter thing.
That was certainly part of it. Because Natsuhi was restricted to her room, noone could observe her actions. However, she can't prove that she was in her room, at all.
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Old 2011-10-23, 14:56   Link #3209
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Since there's no evidence that she sealed the cousin room
Yes there is.

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its not all the time though. she wasn't there before 1:00 because she followed and stalked dr. nanjo during his trip to the library.
And if they didn't get out during that time they couldn't of made the knock and letter.

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well that wrong on my part. i'll just say its implied. Implied in red truth, in the narration,and in dialogue..
Just like magic.

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Wait. Battler never complained about it. Natsuhi doesn't now about it(she's on the second floor). Beato wasn't even conscious in that game. The only person that was meta-scammed as you said it was Erika.

to trick us? don't be ridiculous. it doesn't even matter to us since its not relevant to the game.
You seriously don't get it.

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Did you forgot the possibility of an accomplice? this is what im talking about from the beginning though that one of the cousin did it. I just can't express the idea vividly due to my limited knowledge of english.
And...? Look, it doesn't matter who's an 'accomplice', no one could've made the knock and letter.

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She lost her alibi because "the man from 18 year ago" wants her to stay in her room. Not because of the knock/letter thing.
Yes, but there's no reds securing her position, therefore she 'could' have made the knock/letter. Jesus christ, connect the dots, dude.
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Old 2011-10-24, 00:37   Link #3210
unsuspectingvisitor
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
If you finished EP8 (at least EP7) try reading the TIP Forgery No.xxx.
Spoiler for Knock and letter:
This red truth can deny that
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Not a single person in the dining hall...no, there's a simpler way to say it. Among all those inside the mansion at 24:00, not a single person placed that letter in the corridor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
T
According to Erika, after the gold was discovered, she went with the cousins to the Guesthouse, immediately sealed all outside windows, and then played cards with them until midnight. They were never able to deliver a letter to the mansion before midnight, because Erika was always with them when the knock / letter allegedly happened.
It wasn't really specified in red truth when the knock/letter thing happened though. It was just implied that the knock happened in mid night because of the sound of the clock. But what if the clock was change or modified by someone so that the clock will sound before or after midnight. That changes everything right?. I'll explain later.
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Even if one argues that "a cousin might have left while Erika was taping the windows on the opposite side of the guesthouse", it is very likely (almost assured) that she taped the front door immediately behind her, and would have known that someone had left.
But what if that cousin left the guest house but that person manage to return back before Erika found out about the broken seal.
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The knock being implied by the red truth is often take as another instance of Lambda playing in a way that Beatrice typically would not. It creates a very false impression, but doesn't say anything. For example, Battler may be able to say something like My son isn't on Rokkenjima today. It's certainly the truth, despite him not having a son at all, right?
the implication can be true based on what you believe. So i tend to believe that the knock was true because There's no red truth in the story that denies the existence of the knock.

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Yes there is.
Show me then.

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And if they didn't get out during that time they couldn't of made the knock and letter.
there's no red truth that the knock and the letter incident really happened on 12:00.The clock was there to mislead us. So there's a possibility that it happened before or after midnight.



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You seriously don't get it.
I don't get what you mean either.


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Yes, but there's no reds securing her position, therefore she 'could' have made the knock/letter. Jesus christ, connect the dots, dude.
You contradicted yourself just now. read the Red truth.
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Old 2011-10-24, 11:08   Link #3211
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
This red truth can deny that
No it can't. The only thing it denies is that a letter was placed in the corridor, it does not deny the existence of any letter at all.
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Old 2011-10-24, 12:03   Link #3212
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
This red truth can deny that
Human pieces don't know about the red truth and therefore can't act on it. There's is absolutely nothing stopping the people in the dining room from creating a letter while Natsuhi's group was out of the room and then falsely claiming it was left outside the door. Krauss would have no way to refute it even if he thought it wasn't true.

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It wasn't really specified in red truth when the knock/letter thing happened though. It was just implied that the knock happened in mid night because of the sound of the clock. But what if the clock was change or modified by someone so that the clock will sound before or after midnight. That changes everything right?. I'll explain later.

But what if that cousin left the guest house but that person manage to return back before Erika found out about the broken seal.
Erika's seals cannot be tampered with in any way without leaving a trace. Furthermore, no such traces were found. It'd be impossible for someone to repair the seal without her knowledge.

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there's no red truth that the knock and the letter incident really happened on 12:00.The clock was there to mislead us. So there's a possibility that it happened before or after midnight.
Well, why don't we proceed from that assumption?

We know that Erika was playing cards with the cousins from the time she finished sealing the guesthouse until midnight. Once the family conference began, it was impossible for anyone outside the mansion to affect the inside. Therefore, the only way a cousin could have knocked inside the mansion was if they were already there before the conference started, which in turn means that they must have knocked and returned to the guesthouse before Erika finished the seals. Had they returned later, say during the period Erika was with Nanjo in the library, she wouldn't have seen them playing cards.

But you know, that's not a question of the clock being a couple of minutes off anymore, that's a difference of being over an hour early, right? How would anyone not notice that, especially considering (via EP4) that some of them had watches? Not to mention, it would put the knock at nearly the beginning of the conference, and it was shown that the chime and supposed knock happened while everyone was taking a break. This is even though we know the cousins other than Battler returned to the guesthouse before the conference started, which would mean the conference didn't get started right away if we want there to be time for the knocker to come back to the mansion.

Also, even if we assume that the clock did chime early, now there's a contradiction with Natsuhi's observations. She went to answer the phone in her bedroom immediately after hearing the chime and didn't leave till morning, but on the other hand, we have red truth saying she was in the hall with Krauss and Genji at midnight.
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Old 2011-10-24, 12:46   Link #3213
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You're very persistent. Can I ask that you describe, chronologically, your theory of "a cousin placed the letter before or after midnight"? I'm not sure how you see them getting around Erika's surveillance.

I will respond, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
This red truth can deny that
Hagurama's post says "There was a letter, but it wasn't found in the hallway as described." The red you posted DOESN'T deny that - it only denies the possibility of someone placing it in the hallway. We are saying that the letter was NEVER "placed in the hallway".

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
It wasn't really specified in red truth when the knock/letter thing happened though. It was just implied that the knock happened in mid night because of the sound of the clock. But what if the clock was change or modified by someone so that the clock will sound before or after midnight. That changes everything right?.
It is true, it's possible the clock was tampered with to create a false impression of events. However, it should be stated that NOBODY in the guesthouse is allowed to leave it after midnight, so you are essentially arguing in favor of "before midnight".

Also, the gold was found before midnight, and Erika was with the cousins as they returned to the guesthouse. You are then limited to "the letter was placed before the gold was found", in which case it's hardly a riddle at all, as almost anyone could've placed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
But what if that cousin left the guest house but that person manage to return back before Erika found out about the broken seal.
Irrelevant. If someone returned before Erika noticed a broken seal, yes, they could have placed the letter, but Erika WOULD NOTICE the broken seal. Instead, she specifically says that all of the seals she placed were intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
the implication can be true based on what you believe. So i tend to believe that the knock was true because There's no red truth in the story that denies the existence of the knock.
You've heard of 'Occam's Razor', no? The principle that more often than not, the simpler solution is a better one? If you follow on this train of thought, there's no red denying Battler's "small bomb" theory, or the "Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Genji simultaneously shot each other in the face" theory - just because something gets around the red doesn't make it that great of a solution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
Show me then.
During the trial, Beatrice argues that the Cousin's room can be reached by a tree, or ladder, or storm drain.

Erika responds that she thought of this already, and sealed ALL of the guesthouse windows, and those seals were intact in the morning.



Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
there's no red truth that the knock and the letter incident really happened on 12:00.The clock was there to mislead us. So there's a possibility that it happened before or after midnight.
If you want to get really, really nitpicky with language, I would throw the red truth that it was impossible for any character within the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND. ......And 'any character' refers even to unobserved people that no one has noticed., stated by Lambda. This statement isn't time-specific, either, so it's almost Lambda saying, explicitly, that there wasn't a knock at all. Combine it with None of the characters misidentified a knocking sound., and it's almost explicit.

That Erika didn't land on the very simple solution of "there was no knock" boggles the mind, because she typically liked to confirm that things actually exist. O_o

I appreciate that you're trying to work out a solution that satisfies you more than "everybody lied", but I really, really think the letter is just a thought exercise for us readers, similar to the cheese cutting and coin/cup problem. The exercise being "You can say alot of red that doesn't really prove anything". Erika doesn't even bother trying to solve it again, later.

Last edited by Kealym; 2011-10-24 at 12:46. Reason: typo
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Old 2011-10-24, 15:01   Link #3214
AuraTwilight
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That Erika didn't land on the very simple solution of "there was no knock" boggles the mind, because she typically liked to confirm that things actually exist. O_o
I'm like 100% she was in on Bern's and Lambda's plot from the getgo.
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Old 2011-10-25, 16:00   Link #3215
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post



Erika's seals cannot be tampered with in any way without leaving a trace. Furthermore, no such traces were found. It'd be impossible for someone to repair the seal without her knowledge.
My theory doesn't really involve Erika's seals though.. Its just for arguments sake.
so lets forget what i said about the seals.
Quote:
Well, why don't we proceed from that assumption?

We know that Erika was playing cards with the cousins from the time she finished sealing the guesthouse until midnight. Once the family conference began, it was impossible for anyone outside the mansion to affect the inside. Therefore, the only way a cousin could have knocked inside the mansion was if they were already there before the conference started, which in turn means that they must have knocked and returned to the guesthouse before Erika finished the seals. Had they returned later, say during the period Erika was with Nanjo in the library, she wouldn't have seen them playing cards.

But you know, that's not a question of the clock being a couple of minutes off anymore, that's a difference of being over an hour early, right? How would anyone not notice that, especially considering (via EP4) that some of them had watches? Not to mention, it would put the knock at nearly the beginning of the conference, and it was shown that the chime and supposed knock happened while everyone was taking a break. This is even though we know the cousins other than Battler returned to the guesthouse before the conference started, which would mean the conference didn't get started right away if we want there to be time for the knocker to come back to the mansion.

Also, even if we assume that the clock did chime early, now there's a contradiction with Natsuhi's observations. She went to answer the phone in her bedroom immediately after hearing the chime and didn't leave till morning, but on the other hand, we have red truth saying she was in the hall with Krauss and Genji at midnight.
The thing that i had in my was this. The Clock was late thirty minutes.
Now lets compare it to the Correct time.

If the Correct time was 12:00 then clock must be 11:30.
then if the clock time was 12:00 then the correct time must be 12:30.

Now you just said that after erika played with the cousins at 12:00. She left with nanjo and went to the library.i also remember She didn't return to the guesthouse until 1:00.
With that in mind i can safely say that george can leave the guesthouse After Erika left the cousin's room. Its 12:00 right? when Erika left. If he left lets say at 12:05 the clock time must be 11:35. That certainly gave him enough time to place the letter and knock on the door.





I'll just respond to this paragraph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealym View Post

If you want to get really, really nitpicky with language, I would throw the red truth that it was impossible for any character within the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND. ......And 'any character' refers even to unobserved people that no one has noticed., stated by Lambda. This statement isn't time-specific, either, so it's almost Lambda saying, explicitly, that there wasn't a knock at all. Combine it with None of the characters misidentified a knocking sound., and it's almost explicit.
That's only one part of that red truth.
This is the whole set.
Quote:
at 24:00, except for Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji in the second floor corridor and all of the people in the dining hall, no humans existed inside the mansion.
Quote:
Let it be known that in addition to Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji, none of those in the dining hall made the knock. In this sense, 'knock' includes all direct, indirect, intentional, unintentional, and coincidental events that could create a knocking sound.
Quote:
In short, this means it was impossible for any character within the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND. ......And 'any character' refers even to unobserved people that no one has noticed.
Those Eiserne Jungfrau girls said those red truth while erika was trying to solve the riddle.

The first red was talking about the humans "at 24:00" the other two red I think was just an additional info for the first red.
If that's the cased then those two red truth was also talking about what happened "at 24:00" .
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Old 2011-10-25, 16:16   Link #3216
Yopee
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Join Date: Jul 2010
So it sounds like you're going with your wonky clock theory just for the sake of dodging reds and seals rather than logically arriving at that theory. I'm talking about the whodunit, whydunit, and the howdunit. Who would mess up the clock? For what reason would this person mess up the clock by thirty minutes?
Well, howdunit is easy enough I suppose so no need to explain that.
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Old 2011-10-25, 16:46   Link #3217
unsuspectingvisitor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yopee View Post
So it sounds like you're going with your wonky clock theory just for the sake of dodging reds and seals rather than logically arriving at that theory. I'm talking about the whodunit, whydunit, and the howdunit. Who would mess up the clock? For what reason would this person mess up the clock by thirty minutes?
Well, howdunit is easy enough I suppose so no need to explain that.
Who dunnit? it's kanon or Shannon. Pick one. They must have change or modify the clock even before battler and the others went back to the dining hall or possibly during the knock happened.

Why dunnit? I think it a revenge they planned specifically for Erika. She's a self proclaimed detective and have a lot of confidence in herself so there's no way that she wouldn't try to find out who place the letter.
But Erika never stayed in the dining hall so I don't why they still followed the plan.
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Old 2011-10-25, 17:23   Link #3218
LyricalAura
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
The thing that i had in my was this. The Clock was late thirty minutes.
Now lets compare it to the Correct time.

If the Correct time was 12:00 then clock must be 11:30.
then if the clock time was 12:00 then the correct time must be 12:30.

Now you just said that after erika played with the cousins at 12:00. She left with nanjo and went to the library.i also remember She didn't return to the guesthouse until 1:00.
With that in mind i can safely say that george can leave the guesthouse After Erika left the cousin's room. Its 12:00 right? when Erika left. If he left lets say at 12:05 the clock time must be 11:35. That certainly gave him enough time to place the letter and knock on the door.
Being able to leave the guesthouse is not the same as being able to enter the mansion. If we're talking about the gap when Erika was with Nanjo, the setting of the mansion's clock actually doesn't matter at all, because it was impossible for anyone to enter the mansion after the conference started. The conference started right after the gold was found, so by the time Erika left the cousins' room at midnight, it had already been going for a long time even if the clock had been tampered with. We know this because at the the time the clock chimed, everyone was taking a break from the conference.

George or anyone else could sneak out of the guesthouse between 12:00 and 1:00 without Erika knowing, but forget knocking or placing letters, they wouldn't even be able to get into the building.
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Old 2011-10-25, 21:13   Link #3219
unsuspectingvisitor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Being able to leave the guesthouse is not the same as being able to enter the mansion. If we're talking about the gap when Erika was with Nanjo, the setting of the mansion's clock actually doesn't matter at all, because it was impossible for anyone to enter the mansion after the conference started. The conference started right after the gold was found, so by the time Erika left the cousins' room at midnight, it had already been going for a long time even if the clock had been tampered with. We know this because at the the time the clock chimed, everyone was taking a break from the conference.

George or anyone else could sneak out of the guesthouse between 12:00 and 1:00 without Erika knowing, but forget knocking or placing letters, they wouldn't even be able to get into the building.
If your talking about the fact that all the windows and door of the mansion was locked during the family conference. There's still no problem because Shannon can just easily gave George her master key.
I never saw that red truth on ep5. Are you sure you certain that this red truth is said in ep5?
By the way, this is where I look for all the red truth of umineko.

Code:
http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Truth
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Old 2011-10-25, 21:51   Link #3220
LyricalAura
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
If your talking about the fact that all the windows and door of the mansion was locked during the family conference. There's still no problem because Shannon can just easily gave George her master key.
I never saw that red truth on ep5. Are you sure you certain that this red truth is said in ep5?
By the way, this is where I look for all the red truth of umineko.

Code:
http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Truth
I'll go one better and show you the original text from the novel.

屋敷以外の全員は、親族会議開始後、屋敷内にて何を行なうことも不可能なり。
For everyone outside the mansion, once the family conference began, it was impossible to do anything inside the mansion.
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