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Old 2009-10-06, 15:15   Link #1121
Marion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
He's wearing a suit, how do you know he doesn't have one? From Natsuhi's reactions, it seems that the one-winged eagle mark is an important deal for the Ushiromiya family. Eva has one; so, I think it is fair to assume Krauss, Rudolph and Rosa have them somewhere in their bodies too. However, unlike Eva, they don't have those parts of their bodies exposed. Their children quite likely have the mark as well. The same can be said about the servants Kinzo has granted that mark. If Shannon has it, chances are good Genji and Kanon have them somewhere too - who knows, maybe other servants may have it as well; although, they'd have to be important to Kinzo.
Why is it that because Eva has it all the other siblings do as well? It's not like the tattoo is a right of passage or anything Honestly I think you're obsessing over a choice to tattoo or not, at least as far as the humans go. Eva just decided to tattoo it on her body because she obviously has a lot of pride in the family name (remember how in EP 3 everyone said they would be willing to sell off their spot on the Ushiromiya hierarchy, but Eva said that she would never do such a thing).
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Old 2009-10-06, 15:17   Link #1122
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I didn't count anyone as a "Beatrice" who does not identify themselves as such. However, I forgot "Beatrice the Golden" from the dinner letter, and you're right that this could be an entirely different person (although I suspect it's the one who sent the letters/wrote in Maria's diary/etc., there's no proof as Ange never compared the dinner letter to those writings).

The staker and magic circle person are not, in my mind, a "Beatrice." There is no proof whatsoever that these acts are Beatrice-related. That said, it could be one of the aforementioned "Beatrices" doing it, but the existence of "the staker" is as far as I'm willing to go. I'm not even convinced the staker is killing anyone.
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Old 2009-10-06, 15:43   Link #1123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
He's wearing a suit, how do you know he doesn't have one?
if we assume that anime is canon, there's no way he has one, unless he has it on top of his head or something. remember we not only see him naked, but also long enough and from different angles, you can examine almost his whole body in this scene. no sign of any tattoos.
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Old 2009-10-06, 15:56   Link #1124
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Ahh... I wasn't counting the anime pictures. I guess I'll have to leave this argument as it is.
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Old 2009-10-06, 15:58   Link #1125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I didn't count anyone as a "Beatrice" who does not identify themselves as such. However, I forgot "Beatrice the Golden" from the dinner letter, and you're right that this could be an entirely different person (although I suspect it's the one who sent the letters/wrote in Maria's diary/etc., there's no proof as Ange never compared the dinner letter to those writings).
There's also the "Golden Witch Beatrice" who signed the letter found in Episode 3. Between the different signature and the different tone of the letter (the author explicitly threatened to kill everyone if they didn't solve the epitaph), I think it's reasonable to suggest that it was written by a different person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
The staker and magic circle person are not, in my mind, a "Beatrice." There is no proof whatsoever that these acts are Beatrice-related. That said, it could be one of the aforementioned "Beatrices" doing it, but the existence of "the staker" is as far as I'm willing to go. I'm not even convinced the staker is killing anyone.
I just listed them and the magic circle person as Beatrice because their actions are being attributed to Beatrice by the other characters. At least in the staker's case they appear to be deliberately creating that impression by following the epitaph. I do agree with you that the staker may not be killing anyone (at least not deliberately -- see Hideyoshi's death in Episode 3).
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Old 2009-10-06, 16:20   Link #1126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Why is it that because Eva has it all the other siblings do as well? It's not like the tattoo is a right of passage or anything Honestly I think you're obsessing over a choice to tattoo or not, at least as far as the humans go. Eva just decided to tattoo it on her body because she obviously has a lot of pride in the family name (remember how in EP 3 everyone said they would be willing to sell off their spot on the Ushiromiya hierarchy, but Eva said that she would never do such a thing).
Is everyone sure that's a tatoo?? I've always thought it was part of her outfit which connected it to the glove. Something like stockings (don't know how to say it well but that material) with the symbol impressed, which could be the same as Shannon, wearing stocking with the Ushiromiya crest.
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Old 2009-10-06, 16:34   Link #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leinne View Post
Is everyone sure that's a tatoo?? I've always thought it was part of her outfit which connected it to the glove. Something like stockings (don't know how to say it well but that material) with the symbol impressed, which could be the same as Shannon, wearing stocking with the Ushiromiya crest.
I'm pretty sure that both Shannon and Eva have tattoos on their bodies, I've never heard (or seen any sort of evidence) to suggest they are simply part of their outfits.
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Old 2009-10-06, 17:42   Link #1128
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Has there been any official art of Shannon or Eva in swimwear? (I'm fairly sure I've seen Shannon in swimwear, but I'm not sure whether it was official or fanart.) That would clear up the tattoo question.
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Old 2009-10-06, 17:54   Link #1129
Marion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leinne View Post
Is everyone sure that's a tatoo?? I've always thought it was part of her outfit which connected it to the glove. Something like stockings (don't know how to say it well but that material) with the symbol impressed, which could be the same as Shannon, wearing stocking with the Ushiromiya crest.
Again considering there are two promo pics of Shannon being bare-legged on the beach I doubt it's stockings XD Same goes for Eva.

And yes the promo pics of Shannon are the beach are official and from DEEN. Of course I trust Trollkastel more than I trust them so 9w9
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Old 2009-10-07, 12:45   Link #1130
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I don't know about the tatoo thing (It might be possible that the furniture or some of the family members ahve one)... I kinda realized...I mean it doesn't have to be important and stuff. But did you guys notice that on Erika's cloth which of course were Jessica's is no eagle? Means that Jessica didn't wear the eagle in her junior highschool time. Isn't that a little strange? Especially with Natsuhi as her mother?
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Old 2009-10-07, 12:49   Link #1131
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Imho they only wear the winged eagle on the family conference. It's been said that they are special clothes they don't wear everyday, so that's probably it. As for why you still see them with the same clothes even in the flashbacks where they are at their own places... well.. I guess that's because Ryukishi didn't want to make new graphics just for that XD

The real problem is Ange since she has no reason to wear that armband.
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Old 2009-10-07, 12:59   Link #1132
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As for why you still see them with the same clothes even in the flashbacks where they are at their own places... well.. I guess that's because Ryukishi didn't want to make new graphics just for that XD
i agree on that one, I meant that would have been a lot of work^^


Quote:
Imho they only wear the winged eagle on the family conference
But didn't flashback Eva and Krauss in the anime have the crest? I'm unsure on that one. Also with Natsuhi as her mother I think she would let her daughter show off the crest in every possible occasion
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Old 2009-10-07, 13:06   Link #1133
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i agree on that one, I meant that would have been a lot of work^^




But didn't flashback Eva and Krauss in the anime have the crest? I'm unsure on that one. Also with Natsuhi as her mother I think she would let her daughter show off the crest in every possible occasion

Well, Kinzo was alive and around back then, so he was probably much stricter with them showing it off.

In other news...

Spoiler for My mind is in the gutter,seriously:
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Old 2009-10-07, 13:15   Link #1134
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In jessica's middle school time Kinzo was also around. But oh well maybe I'm just to dep into it
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Old 2009-10-07, 13:42   Link #1135
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Maybe Kumasawa removed the one-winged eagle on the spot just for the unexpected guest XD
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Old 2009-10-07, 16:14   Link #1136
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You also see in the manga and elsewhere they didn't always wear the eagle (EP 2 George wasn't wearing it and at the school festival Jessica didn't show it off either, along with Kanon. Plus EP 4 Ange doesn't wear the eagle around school).

And yeah I think it is with the family. In the anime Eva (she was wearing a necklace I think) and Krauss wore it because of Kinzo. Maybe one needs to wear the crest, if they can, only on Rokkenjima. But other times they don't have to (EP 4 manga Ange wasn't wearing it as a child after all and I remember in the EP 2 manga Rudolf wasn't wearing one on his business suit during his dream about his company).
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Old 2009-10-08, 12:00   Link #1137
Jan-Poo
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In the past days I've been trying my best to solve the epitaph and make sense out of all the info in our possession. I have tried many different paths, most of them led to a dead end, some of them led to a frustrating something close but not close enough. I have tried grounded simple reasonings and far-fetched reasonings.

In the end I can't say I reached any completely satisfactory solution, however I have reached what it seems a possible one, even so it has weak points here and there. I don't think this is 100% correct, but I might have got some good hunches and maybe showing you the result of my work can help other people with their theory.

What I am going to explain is the result of all my hard work so far, with the help of chronotrig. This is the best I could come up with. The most interesting part is, if this reasoning is correct, I solved the riddle up to the very point you find the gold. I don't think anyone ever got that far before.

Unfortunately there are some ep5 spoilers, but it was unavoidable to explain my theory.

Spoiler for Epitaph temporary possible solution:



TL;DR Version

Spoiler for Episode5 epitaph:
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Old 2009-10-08, 12:57   Link #1138
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Is it wrong that this totally convinces me? >_>

Even if it shouldn't be correct, I applaud you nonetheless, sir =D


As for the one part you aren't sure of...

Spoiler for Eva's thoughts:

Last edited by Serpit; 2009-10-08 at 13:08.
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Old 2009-10-08, 13:52   Link #1139
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What about the supposed notion that "the two" in the epitaph are supposed to be two people? Also, "northern boat hill" could mean the secret dock that services Kuwadorian, or a place near it (it's not unimaginable that an underground tunnel would connect to a dock facility). Which side of the island specifically was that ever said to be on, if it was at all?
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Old 2009-10-08, 16:05   Link #1140
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The reason the boat thing doesn't convince me that much is Rosa's encounter with Eva near the treasure. There should be two boats then, but why? Also in ep5 there are many people that go there.

As for "the two", I wonder... in japanese is "二人" and "the six" is "六人" we know that in at least one case the "people" part is irrelevant. Also since Eva is looking inside an atlas if the two are people then she must have found a connection between places and people names.

This is one of the things I have tried to examine since the kind of shock Eva receives once she find out what the village is make me think she understood something more than just a riddle. For example what if she has found station names which are similar to Kinzo's children and grandchildren names? That would be quite a shock to learn those strange names were part of such a scheme. However I was unable to find anything of the sort.
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