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Old 2009-10-12, 05:39   Link #1181
MeoTwister5
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Well my own current unifying theory of the true perpetrator, which I'm still evaluating and refining before I ever come out and say it, does involve some sort of a mastermind.

If there is a mastermind, he obviously isn't a piece of either Beato or Battler. The thing is, with only 18 people on the island, we have to reasses which ones can be considered a piece of Beato and a piece of Battler. If the mastermind is constant in the game, he'd have to be on the island and not be one of the murdered people, at least until the end. I highly doubt a mastermind would orchestrate his own murder, a real death or a faked one, until his primary goals have been achieved.

As it stands, the only person who constantly survives until the end is Ushiromiya Battler.
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Old 2009-10-12, 06:16   Link #1182
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I posted this in another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
*snip*
The possibility exists that the person who uses the name "Kanon" on Beatrice's gameboard has never died.

The details of that theory are in that post I made. I'm not saying that Kanon is the mastermind, I'm just saying that it's possible that Battler isn't the only one surviving each time.

Also, regarding the number of people on the island what about this:

EPISODE 2
No one exists in this room except all of you. All of you refers to Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, and Shannon
When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room
[Whoops, the corpse of] Jessica is also included
Therefore, both in the case of Jessica's room and the case in this servants' room, no humans exist that are you were not aware of
No one is hiding


Beatrice is only referring to the humans in the rooms therefore ninja culprit X is running around killing people.

EPISODE 3
Way before the first twilight occurs Beatrice says: There are no more than 18 people on this Rokkenjima

Right after she says that the culprit(or culprits) takes a boat to Rokkenjima. The red is not violated because it was true at the time.

Then the culprit(or culprits) kills at least 4 people. Kinzo is already dead and see my previous theory for why "Kanon" may also be already dead.

Next we get Virgilia saying, "There are no more than 19 people on this island".

Kinzo is already dead and Beatrice lowered the number of people on the island because dead people don't count as people on the island anymore. Therefore this red is not violated.

That Kinzo rule also applies when Eva-Beatrice says, There are no more than 18 people on this island.

EPISODE 4
All the reds come after everyone is dead so just apply the Kinzo rule and you can have as many as 16 extra culprits on the island.

EPISODE 5
The number of other people existing on the island is exactly the same as in the previous games.

That's great. So if we can't rule out that people are sneaking onto the island from the other games we don't know how the number of people on the island changes.

Lambda also says: In short, the number of people in the parlor at this moment is the same as the number of people existing on the island.

The culprit(or culprits) is hiding in the parlor at the moment of the red declaration! Listening to everyone's conversation.

I think that theory might be a stretch but what worries me is the fact that there is no way to absolutely disprove it.
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Old 2009-10-12, 09:27   Link #1183
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Quote:
If the mastermind is constant in the game, he'd have to be on the island and not be one of the murdered people, at least until the end. I highly doubt a mastermind would orchestrate his own murder, a real death or a faked one, until his primary goals have been achieved.
As it is, it's not like there aren't other potential killers besides the mastermind and his/her culprits and they could off them due to simple fear or other desires. I would argue instead that the mastermind has to be someone who has survived past 24:00 on October 6 at least once (if not for very long), with that one time being the successful scenario where everything they planned works more or less right. The people then are:
Battler
Maria
Jessica
George
Rosa
Eva
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Old 2009-10-12, 09:54   Link #1184
MeoTwister5
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I don't think I understood your use of time. 24:00 into October 6 meaning the final list of survivors with all the previous murder sets achieved, or the 24:00 at the beginning of October 6, meaning the first set of murders have just occurred?

Thing is, unless I'm mistaken, all the people alive at the island at that point has survived past the first set at least once. On the other hand, as you've listed those 6 are the only ones who have ever made it into the the final survivor's list. I would add Natsuhi to that list though she died from a head wound (this is still debatable even now) at almost the exact time of midnight.

Of course I don't think we have enough evidence yet to deduce a possible mindset of a possible mastermind, however it is probably more likely to first consider that the mastermind who is the same in every game would ideally want to survive his gambit. As it stands, only Battler fits this role (discounting being shot by Eva in Ep3, maybe he survives?).

And yet, we may need to discount Battler as the mastermind as the "detective" prior to that bitch Erika, as well as being the continuous existence of Piece Battler of Ep1 into Meta-Battler.
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Old 2009-10-12, 09:57   Link #1185
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There are more people that might have survived past 24:00 on October 6 at least once if you only trust red text.
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Old 2009-10-12, 11:56   Link #1186
Ssol
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I only trust red text regarding the "who?" and "how?" elements of each murder.

I think the answer regarding why each murder was committed will only be answered in white text for most cases.

I think most white text is important especially the epitaph. How sure are you that starting phrase has to be a word that is of 11 letters in length and that the key is letters as well? Let's say the starting phrase is quadrillion. Quadrillion and is 1,000,000,000,000,000 in decimal. What if it's binary?

Let's also assume as you said that the key is LIQUID then I'll assume that the letters of the alphabet have corresponding numeric values.
A = 1, B= 2, C= 3, etc.
This leads to 12 - 9 - 17 - 21 - 9 - 4.
Convert that to binary -> 0110 - 0101 - 10001 - 10101 - 0101 - 0100
Quadrillion converted to binary is -> 00111000110101111110101001001100011010000000000000 00

I'm not sure how you would combine them though. The problem is you want to end up with a number that can be represented by using a maximum of 5 bits per character so up 25 bits would be needed when you convert back to decimal then convert again to get the 5 final letters of the alphabet.
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Old 2009-10-12, 12:03   Link #1187
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Ah! I've tried binary and other systems conversions in the case of 07151129, I even tried exadecimal conversion however this led me to a whole nothing XD

This number has been examined in so many ways that the fact that by mere chance not even a possible asnwer has been found is per se an inexplicable mystery XD
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Old 2009-10-12, 12:54   Link #1188
Used Can
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Have Rosa and Maria ever been staked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
My theory is that the mastermind is also an entity that can appear in the meta world but for the first five episodes has only been an observer regarding the meta world discussions.
Wouldn't allowing the mastermind in the Meta-World be counter-productive? Beatrice seems to have absolute control over the Meta-World. That includes who may enter that place. So, why would she allow the mastermind in (even unconsciously)? Sure, she's allowed Bern and Lambda in, but they are not the culprits, and they do have a role. Allowing the mastermind in would be a terrible idea, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
And yet, we may need to discount Battler as the mastermind as the "detective" prior to that bitch Erika, as well as being the continuous existence of Piece Battler of Ep1 into Meta-Battler.
Not necessarily, since the existence of two Battlers has been hinted. One of them may have been the detective, and the other one the killer. This may explain why we saw Eva shooting Battler, at the end of EP3.
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Old 2009-10-12, 13:35   Link #1189
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If it is the other Battler it is the other Battler and not "our" Battler. Dlanor dind't say "Battler was the detective", she said "You were the detective".
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Old 2009-10-12, 13:40   Link #1190
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Obviously, why would Beatrice try to have the culprit solve the mystery? :P
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Old 2009-10-12, 14:51   Link #1191
Ssol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Have Rosa and Maria ever been staked?
Not for episodes 1 through 4. The tips say they died by some sort of slashing weapon in episode 5 but no stake is found in their body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Wouldn't allowing the mastermind in the Meta-World be counter-productive? Beatrice seems to have absolute control over the Meta-World. That includes who may enter that place. So, why would she allow the mastermind in (even unconsciously)? Sure, she's allowed Bern and Lambda in, but they are not the culprits, and they do have a role. Allowing the mastermind in would be a terrible idea, in my opinion.
I don't think anyone would willingly let the mastermind into the meta world either.

Bernkastel and Erika entered without any permission and if the mastermind really does have a meta world counterpart I don't think anyone allowed entry.
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Old 2009-10-12, 15:30   Link #1192
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@Kaiba: You forgot Genji (episode 2).
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Old 2009-10-12, 15:37   Link #1193
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Not for episodes 1 through 4. The tips say they died by some sort of slashing weapon in episode 5 but no stake is found in their body.
Thank you

Hmm... that's odd. It's been 5 episodes and those two have never been staked, along with Battler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Bernkastel and Erika entered without any permission and if the mastermind really does have a meta world counterpart I don't think anyone allowed entry.
Bern and Lambda wouldn't have been able to enter that place had Beatrice not wanted them in. It's the same for Ange, and the other people/beings we've seen in the Metaworld. Anyone/anything that may want to enter the Metaworld has to be allowed by Beatrice either consciously or unconsciously.

Well, that's what I think based on the fact she supposed to have absolute control over that place. If I'm wrong, I'd be glad if someone corrects me.
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Old 2009-10-12, 15:50   Link #1194
Ssol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Bern and Lambda wouldn't have been able to enter that place had Beatrice not wanted them in. It's the same for Ange, and the other people/beings we've seen in the Metaworld. Anyone/anything that may want to enter the Metaworld has to be allowed by Beatrice either consciously or unconsciously.

Well, that's what I think based on the fact she supposed to have absolute control over that place. If I'm wrong, I'd be glad if someone corrects me.
If she has absolute control over the meta world how is it that everyone in the meta world continued to exist after she completely disintegrated?

It's unclear how much control she ever had because she needed Lambda's help.
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Old 2009-10-12, 15:56   Link #1195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
If she has absolute control over the meta world how is it that everyone in the meta world continued to exist after she completely disintegrated?

It's unclear how much control she ever had because she needed Lambda's help.
According to Lambda (pretty sure it was her) Battler became the new master of the kakera, as the Endless Sorcerer.
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Old 2009-10-12, 16:17   Link #1196
Ssol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
According to Lambda (pretty sure it was her) Battler became the new master of the kakera, as the Endless Sorcerer.
I agree. Lambda has a huge amount of control since she probably gave Beatrice, Eva-Beatrice, and Battler the endless sorcerer/witch abilities.

But regarding Beatrice, I don't think she has the ability to prevent any voyager type witch or greater from entering the meta world if they really wanted to enter undetected.
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Old 2009-10-12, 16:19   Link #1197
Marion
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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
I agree. Lambda has a huge amount of control since she probably gave Beatrice, Eva-Beatrice, and Battler the endless sorcerer/witch abilities.

But regarding Beatrice, I don't think she has the ability to prevent any voyager type witch or greater from entering the meta world if they really wanted to enter undetected.
How do you explain her forcing Ange out of Meta-World though in EP 4, when the former was clearly superior as a witch (being able to bring back Sakutaro in the Golden Land, when Beato couldn't)
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Old 2009-10-12, 16:25   Link #1198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
How do you explain her forcing Ange out of Meta-World though in EP 4, when the former was clearly superior as a witch (being able to bring back Sakutaro in the Golden Land, when Beato couldn't)
Beato was just a lot more upset and determined at that moment than Ange was.
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Old 2009-10-12, 16:26   Link #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
How do you explain her forcing Ange out of Meta-World though in EP 4, when the former was clearly superior as a witch (being able to bring back Sakutaro in the Golden Land, when Beato couldn't)
Since it wasn't Beatrice who killed Ange in the meta world I'm not sure which scene you are talking about. Could you provide a reference?
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Old 2009-10-12, 16:28   Link #1200
Marion
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Quote:
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Since it wasn't Beatrice who killed Ange in the meta world I'm not sure which scene you are talking about. Could you provide a reference?
Not kill her. In EP 4 Ange tried to stop Beato from telling Battler about Asumu. She then completely vanished and it was stated by Beato that she was thrown out of Meta-World so that she couldn't interfere.
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