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Old 2009-10-19, 15:59   Link #1461
Ithekro
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If we assume Rosa was in Middle School in 1968, she could have been no older than 15, and likely more like 12. If this is the case, she's in her Early 30s (oldest possible is 33) or at the youngest, 30 in 1986. (I was originally going off Maria's age and the assumption Rosa got pregnant around the age of 18)

The things is, if Natsuhi and Krauss live on the island in the 1950s, and Rosa is born around a little before they are married...would this mean that its possible for Natsuhi to have in some part raised Rosa...if anything because she wanted a child of her own?

(Do we have any idea about the interactions between Rosa and Natsuhi? At least for when Rosa was growing up?)



It is also sort of strange in a way...of just how hot Eva still is and how Natsuhi keeps her figure.
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Old 2009-10-19, 16:01   Link #1462
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Well we know Rosa definietly lived on the island until moving out (probably in the mid 70's I would say). It looks like they have a pretty friendly relationship, with Rosa giving Natsuhi tea leaves in EP 1.
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Old 2009-10-19, 17:02   Link #1463
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Was Rosa born before they moved to the island?
Not clear. Unfortunately we don't have a precise date of when they moved to Rokkenjima. Anyway if Rosa was born already she must have been very little.

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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
How old was Kinzo in 1984? We know he became the head in 1923, but then what did he do to reclaim the family wealth? Was it Beatrice? If it was, why was it so long after he became the head of the family? Was the gold from Beatrice's will? Meaning he got the gold after her death around 1950?
I think it is safe to assume Kinzo was very young when he succeeded. We know he wasn't married yet, and we are talking about old times when people usually used to marry early. I think Kinzo most probably was born in the first years of the century.


About the adults I think the correct age order is:

Rosa < Kyrie < Rudolf < Natsuhi < Eva < Krauss < Hideyoshi

Starting from Hideyoshi. We know that he started smoking right after the war. He must have been at least 14 by then. So at the very least Hideyoshi has 55 years.
However I think this is not the most likely scenario. In Episode5 Hideyoshi talks about his adventures after the war, and how he tried to steal meat from the U.S. army risking to be punished with "dead by hanging". I think he was most probably 20 years old or so, I don't think they would put to death a child. So this means Hideyoshi's age is probably around 60.

Krauss age is 5 years older than Natsuhi. Considering that they have been married for 30 years and that it isn't very likely that Krauss married before finishing his studies, I think he must have at least 53 years, probably 55.

Eva is two years younger than Krauss, so she's also on her fifties, probably above 50.

Natsuhi is 5 years younger than Krauss and she must have been at least 16 to marry. 46 is the minimum age she can have. But I think she's closer to 50 or exactly 50.

Surprisingly we do have an hint on Rudolf's age. He was in elementary school when the family moved to Rokkenjima. This means he is a lot younger than Eva and Krauss. However the range in which they moved to Rokkenjima and the range of elementary school are wide.
min age: (6 years old in 1956) 36 years <- unrealistic because he would have been father while still a minor
max age: (12 years old in 1952) 46 years
Most probable age is a little above 40 years

We have absolutely no info on Kyrie's age. However what kind of philanderer would date older girls? Plus the way Rudolf treats her make me think she's definitely younger. She's probably on her 40s. She must have been already an adult when she got pregnant the first time.

Rosa. Since she was a middle schooler in 1967, min age 31 and max age 34. Her real age is probably in between.

There is practically a 20 years gap from Krauss and Rosa, which is quite unusual. at the very best you can shrink this gap to 16 years, but more than this is impossible.

Quote:
Well we know Rosa definietly lived on the island until moving out (probably in the mid 70's I would say). It looks like they have a pretty friendly relationship, with Rosa giving Natsuhi tea leaves in EP 1.
In ep5 we have confirmation that Natsuhi and Rosa lived in the same house. And since at that point (1967) Natsuhi has been living there for many years already, that means Rosa and Natsuhi lived together for those many years.

We also have confirmation that neither Rudolf nor Eva lived there in 1967. Because Natsuhi doesn't feel the need to explain why they weren't around at the time of the incident.
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Old 2009-10-19, 17:27   Link #1464
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Wait... Rosa was born and lived in the mansion while her siblings were grown up and moved away? O_o;

But... dialogue makes it sound like they all lived together.
Rosa mentions how her siblings were always horrible to her.
Eva-Beatrice mentions how she (Eva) and Rosa would talk and play.
Goldsmith made mentions of Rosa always hiding behind her siblings' shadows (which might be harder to do if they're already grown up)
And outside of EP1, there's really no indication of Rosa having any sort of a relationship with Natsuhi.

If Rosa was a kid... and they were all tormenting her, then they would have to be pretty terrible people. Tormenting your 5 year old sister... tormenting your 10 year old sister... having kids and still finding time to torment your 19 year old sister...
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Old 2009-10-19, 18:02   Link #1465
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Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
Wait... Rosa was born and lived in the mansion while her siblings were grown up and moved away? O_o;

But... dialogue makes it sound like they all lived together.
Rosa mentions how her siblings were always horrible to her.
Eva-Beatrice mentions how she (Eva) and Rosa would talk and play.
Goldsmith made mentions of Rosa always hiding behind her siblings' shadows (which might be harder to do if they're already grown up)
And outside of EP1, there's really no indication of Rosa having any sort of a relationship with Natsuhi.

If Rosa was a kid... and they were all tormenting her, then they would have to be pretty terrible people. Tormenting your 5 year old sister... tormenting your 10 year old sister... having kids and still finding time to torment your 19 year old sister...
Yeah considering ages it makes Rosa's talk about why she hates her siblings INCREDIBLY weird, imo. Technically only Rudolf would really be around the majority of her younger years, but he would probably get off the island around age 20.
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Old 2009-10-19, 18:35   Link #1466
LyricalAura
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I doubt there are military-grade firearms on the island. There could be, but I think it's more plausible that someone (Nanjo?) snuck in a silenced handgun, or that somebody has a shotgun. Or that there's a more esoteric weapon on hand, like a pressure-based projectile gun or crossbow.
Well, if someone snuck a firearm onto the island, it can't be anyone who was on the plane to Niijima. They all went through the airport's metal detector. Nanjo's probably a reasonable guess though, since he lives nearby.

I always just assumed that Kinzo's collection had more guns in it than we ever saw. It wouldn't be much of a collection if it only had one kind of rifle in it, right? The limiting factor is that it's implied that they're all kept in Kinzo's study, so nobody has access to them except Natsuhi, Genji, and a culprit X who kills either of them.
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Old 2009-10-19, 19:04   Link #1467
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Also, about your ages Jan-Poo, I can't see Hideyoshi as being around 60. Eva would almost be a decade younger in that case. There's no visible signs of age or graying and that normally tends to happen after you get past your mid-50's.
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Old 2009-10-19, 19:19   Link #1468
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
Wait... Rosa was born and lived in the mansion while her siblings were grown up and moved away? O_o;

But... dialogue makes it sound like they all lived together.
Rosa mentions how her siblings were always horrible to her.
Eva-Beatrice mentions how she (Eva) and Rosa would talk and play.
Goldsmith made mentions of Rosa always hiding behind her siblings' shadows (which might be harder to do if they're already grown up)
And outside of EP1, there's really no indication of Rosa having any sort of a relationship with Natsuhi.

If Rosa was a kid... and they were all tormenting her, then they would have to be pretty terrible people. Tormenting your 5 year old sister... tormenting your 10 year old sister... having kids and still finding time to torment your 19 year old sister...
Wait they did live together for a while, however Eva and Krauss were already in their twenties more or less.

In the tea party of episode2, Rosa remembers her childhood and she says that krauss at that time was already an adult and Eva was also already an adult, so we have even a confirmation.
She doesn't say that about Rudolf 'though and in fact he must have been still a teenager.
Yeah they really were terrible people, being adult and still tormenting their less than ten years old sister.
It is also incredible how Eva and Rosa used to play together with spiders. Silly Eva how old were you? Strange enough, there seems to be a special bond between Eva and Rosa. I guess that despite the bullying if they were playing together it means they had their good moments.
And in Ep5 they hug each other and cry in front of the gold. I almost cried myself when I read that ; ;


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Also, about your ages Jan-Poo, I can't see Hideyoshi as being around 60. Eva would almost be a decade younger in that case. There's no visible signs of age or graying and that normally tends to happen after you get past your mid-50's.
Well we know that Ryukishi depicts his chars a lot younger than they are supposed to be ^^;
Anyway I don't think he can be younger than 55.
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Old 2009-10-19, 19:22   Link #1469
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well we know that Ryukishi depicts his chars a lot younger than they are supposed to be ^^;
Anyway I don't think he can be younger than 55.
I suppose so. But still, the fact that people refer to Krauss as the eldest brother means he's probably eldest overall. Hideyoshi even calls him Krauss nii-san, which normally shows older-younger relationships (well besides Eva, who just calls refers to Natsuhi as 'nee-san' more for fun I think )
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Old 2009-10-19, 19:43   Link #1470
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Uhm it's not for fun. it appears that the woman married to your elder brother (or man married to your elder sister) must be addressed as if she was older, even if she is in fact younger _

The case of Hideyoshi is strange, but since he is the one who married in the family I guess he's bound to the same rules.
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Old 2009-10-19, 20:02   Link #1471
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Rosa. Since she was a middle schooler in 1967, min age 31 and max age 34. Her real age is probably in between.
So Rosa's husband is probably around the same age if he's still alive. He said he wanted to build a family with Rosa then disappeared right before Maria was born. Rosa said she hated him so I wonder if she attempted any legal action against him. Did Japan have a system where the father had to pay child support or something like that in that time?
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Old 2009-10-19, 20:09   Link #1472
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Uhm it's not for fun. it appears that the woman married to your elder brother (or man married to your elder sister) must be addressed as if she was older, even if she is in fact younger _

The case of Hideyoshi is strange, but since he is the one who married in the family I guess he's bound to the same rules.
I don't understand why other cultures think English is complicated

In the case of Hideyoshi, if he took the risk of grabbing food out of a US Military Base, I could see him just being a kid. He was probably exaggerating with the death by hanging thing. By 20, he would have to be daredevil to try that, and Hideyoshi isn't like that xD
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Old 2009-10-19, 20:54   Link #1473
Jan-Poo
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So Rosa's husband is probably around the same age if he's still alive. He said he wanted to build a family with Rosa then disappeared right before Maria was born. Rosa said she hated him so I wonder if she attempted any legal action against him. Did Japan have a system where the father had to pay child support or something like that in that time?
I think that Rosa didn't do anything against that man. Since no one knows his identity it means she wanted to keep it secret, going in a trial would have worked against that.
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Old 2009-10-19, 21:01   Link #1474
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So Rosa's husband
i don't think he was her husband. it would be harder to disappear if he already married her. i bet he just promised her that he'll marry her and than just ran away.
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Old 2009-10-19, 21:05   Link #1475
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i don't think he was her husband. it would be harder to disappear if he already married her. i bet he just promised her that he'll marry her and than just ran away.
And I'm almost sure he ran away due to Rosa's delightful personality.
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Old 2009-10-19, 21:09   Link #1476
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i don't think he was her husband. it would be harder to disappear if he already married her. i bet he just promised her that he'll marry her and than just ran away.
But Rosa said, "I got what I deserved? Secondhand goods? Divorcees should die?". She called herself a divorcee.

Edit: She also said to a guy in a flashback, "You don't want a woman with a child, you don't want a divorcee, because that's a pain!".
Unless those scenes were false or not translated properly she definitely was married and then divorced.

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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I think that Rosa didn't do anything against that man. Since no one knows his identity it means she wanted to keep it secret, going in a trial would have worked against that.
If she is a divorcee then she divorced her husband. At minimum, the action she took against him was to divorce him.
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And I'm almost sure he ran away due to Rosa's delightful personality.
I agree with that.
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Old 2009-10-19, 21:40   Link #1477
Ithekro
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Hideyoshi was adopted into the family so that Eva could keep the family name.
Rosa was likely never married, as she still have the family name. (I typed for a while....I guess she was married...or else because she has a child she looks like she was married)

The age difference between Rosa and everyone else strikes me as strange. Nost because it is unusual, but because we have no idea who any of these four people's mother is. We assume it was one woman and that this woman had four children starting from around 1931 and going up until about 1953. I couls see it if Rodulf is at the oldest limit of 46, as the first three kids are born before the Second World War, while Rosa is born after the war and the country settles down a bit. But what was Kinzo doing during the war? If they lived on the Northern most Main Islands, then they didn't get bombed much late in the war due to range restrictions and that the main targets were in southern Japan. Kinzo is probably older than serving age by the 1940s, so he need not be a soldier, but then he really wouldn't be away from home either.

And then there is Beatrice. Who was she, and could she have been any of the four of them's mother? Or mother of other children other than these four? When did Kinzo meet Beatrice? When did Kinzo meet his wife and get married? We know there started having childern around 1931 based on the guess of Krauss' age. We assume Kinzo was around 18 in 1923 when he became the head of the family. Or perhaps he didn't become the head until the age of 20 formally. Either way he was born during the first decade of the 20th century. Unless he was really young...mean like slightly older than Maria young. That would mean he wouldn't have gotten married until he turned 20 and became the head around 1930 to fit with Krauss' age.

The thing with Rosa is, were her brothers and sister that mean to her...or did they ignore her?

Krauss might think she's in the way, in there home. Rudolf sounds like he's tease her like Battler teases Maria. Eva never seems to act her age.

We assume Kinzo's wife is dead...but can this be proven in story?
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Old 2009-10-19, 22:14   Link #1478
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I still think Rosa over exaggerated. She tends to be sensitive to a lot of things and maybe thinks that the family looks down at her for not having a husband. Some people are shown in game taunting her at times (Eva, Krauss) but most others are pretty nice to her (Kyrie, Hideyoshi, Rudolf)
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Old 2009-10-19, 22:32   Link #1479
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
I still think Rosa over exaggerated. She tends to be sensitive to a lot of things and maybe thinks that the family looks down at her for not having a husband. Some people are shown in game taunting her at times (Eva, Krauss) but most others are pretty nice to her (Kyrie, Hideyoshi, Rudolf)
Rudolf's nice to her? He's not particularly mean or anything, but I don't remember anything notably nice. In EP3 during the Belphegor battle, he even says a one liner about sending Eva down to Hell after Rosa... which doesn't really seem like something a nice brother would say. I mean, even if she did abuse her daughter, it's not really nice to just say out loud that she's probably burning in Hell or something. owo;

Besides... Rudolf is a jerk too. >.>
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Old 2009-10-19, 22:44   Link #1480
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I still think Rosa over exaggerated. She tends to be sensitive to a lot of things and maybe thinks that the family looks down at her for not having a husband. Some people are shown in game taunting her at times (Eva, Krauss) but most others are pretty nice to her (Kyrie, Hideyoshi, Rudolf)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._ni_characters
Wikipedia thinks she was married.

I agree that she doesn't have a husband anymore and the family looked down on her for that. In the end all she has is Maria.
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