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Old 2009-12-28, 18:29   Link #1821
Tjfarmer
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So regarding the Man From 19 years ago, I'm sure many people have thought this up before;

Spoiler for First call:


Spoiler for Second Call:


Spoiler for Third Phone Call:


So after all that, the only logical solutions I can come from is it is either;

-The adults messing with Natsuhi (assuming one of the men can disguise their voice)
-One of the cousins (Battler or George)

If you really want to go out on a limb, you could say that George and Shannon are working together for this, which is at this time, what I believe. Shannon could easily get into Natsuhi's room, and place those season cards behind four objects, and then George can call her up. For all we know, George could have excused himself from playing cards for a moment to make the second call.

So in short, George is the man from 19 years ago, for who knows why, and he calls Natsuhi up.

Pretty sure I'm wrong though.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:33   Link #1822
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After a bit of reasoning about this man from 19 years ago I thought the calls might be recordings. That's what the pauses when Natsuhi picked up the phone made me think, someone is picking the right tape to play.

Just my little cent.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:38   Link #1823
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Whole thing is the caller isn't claiming to just know about it all. The caller is claiming that they ARE the child. George can't be the child because he was four years back then and I don't think Eva would just give him up for adoption I highly doubt that child even survived. Also why would Krauss freak Natsuhi out like that. He may be an idiot but he's not a complete jackass.

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Originally Posted by Teapot View Post
After a bit of reasoning about this man from 19 years ago I thought the calls might be recordings. That's what the pauses when Natsuhi picked up the phone made me think, someone is picking the right tape to play.

Just my little cent.
That's actually a pretty good theory. Maybe that's the dirty trick, since Bern nor Battler ever mentioned the idea of a tape recording. I doubt that the first call before the conference was a recording, but everything after that could have been.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:43   Link #1824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjfarmer View Post
So regarding the Man From 19 years ago, I'm sure many people have thought this up before;

Spoiler for First call:


Spoiler for Second Call:


Spoiler for Third Phone Call:


So after all that, the only logical solutions I can come from is it is either;

-The adults messing with Natsuhi (assuming one of the men can disguise their voice)
-One of the cousins (Battler or George)

If you really want to go out on a limb, you could say that George and Shannon are working together for this, which is at this time, what I believe. Shannon could easily get into Natsuhi's room, and place those season cards behind four objects, and then George can call her up. For all we know, George could have excused himself from playing cards for a moment to make the second call.

So in short, George is the man from 19 years ago, for who knows why, and he calls Natsuhi up.

Pretty sure I'm wrong though.
Don't forget to use this clue which was pointed out a while back:
Quote:
Originally Posted by theacefrehley View Post
5- Guy from 19 years ago: This was the new item I liked the most. First, I don't think he is real. The baby must really have died. He might have some relation with the baby or the servant who died with the baby, and is using it as an excuse. The interesting fact is that, at first, he uses the pronoun 'ore' (俺) (Battler and Rudolf use it more oftenly), and then, around chapter 10, he changes it to 'boku' (僕) (George and Kanon are the only one using it). Could this be a hint that the revenge boy is not a single person? He probably was acting in other episodes as well. I even considered the possibility of him being an illusion, but since Genji answered more than once his calls, I think we may accept his existence, for now... or not...
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:47   Link #1825
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I'm actually a bit surprised that 'ore' and 'boku' are being used, but 'watashi' isn't. Watashi is a more neutral pronoun, but ore and boku are specifically used by men. If the caller is a women disguising her voice as a man it may be a trick to mess up Natsuhi as well, since only females who want to sound rough or more masculine use male pronouns and they generally use 'ore' in that case.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:47   Link #1826
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Well that means he would need to be the son of either Krauss, Rosa or Eva.

Rosa was only in middle school when Battler was born, so she's immediately out.
Krauss and Natsuhi were having enough problems giving birth to Jessica.
Eva was already raising George with Hideyoshi, so I don't see why she needs a second child. The entire point of having George so early was to get Hideyoshi into the family.

Honestly I don't understand why Rudolf can't be his father. The family has noted they share resemblance to each other (Battler getting a growth spurt only in his mid-teens like Rudolf, facial similarities and then Battler and Ange both have the same hair color) and I know Beato never agreed to Ange's blue with red, but I think it's one of those "well no duh" things so it doesn't have to be in red.
Battler can be Rudolf's son. An illegitimate son, who needed to be hidden away. In this case, the Fukuin House. And after [Family Problems X], Rudolf again needed a son, and Kinzo reminded him of his illegitimate son, who became New Battler; the Battler we see in EP1.
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Old 2009-12-28, 18:58   Link #1827
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Originally Posted by Arachanox View Post
Battler can be Rudolf's son. An illegitimate son, who needed to be hidden away. In this case, the Fukuin House. And after [Family Problems X], Rudolf again needed a son, and Kinzo reminded him of his illegitimate son, who became New Battler; the Battler we see in EP1.
New Battler? So the Battler that gets put away isn't the same Battler that gets taken back?

Also I can't see Rudolf just putting his son in an orphanage either. Technically Ange is also an illegitimate child, since she was born while Rudolf was married to Asumu. He didn't tell Kyrie to get rid of her, nor did he suggest it. Of course there's no evidence of that, but I don't think Kyrie would have such a high opinion of him if he told her to get rid of Ange.
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Old 2009-12-28, 19:00   Link #1828
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The child from 19 years ago did die. The person who called Natsuhi somehow learned of his story (through Genji, Kinzo, or Nanjo), and decided to use it as a means of manipulation. (Aside: I don't think there's any practical difference between the kid surviving and being told his backstory and another kid being falsely told that he was the kid.)

As for the messages, the phoner could be using a variable speed tape recorder. Alternately, the phoner could be an actor who's off the island the whole time (Genji is lying about whether it's an outside line, or someone on the island is fiddling with the switchboard.)
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Old 2009-12-28, 19:08   Link #1829
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
New Battler? So the Battler that gets put away isn't the same Battler that gets taken back?

Also I can't see Rudolf just putting his son in an orphanage either. Technically Ange is also an illegitimate child, since she was born while Rudolf was married to Asumu. He didn't tell Kyrie to get rid of her, nor did he suggest it. Of course there's no evidence of that, but I don't think Kyrie would have such a high opinion of him if he told her to get rid of Ange.
I'll use different prefixes.

The Battler we see in EP1 is First Battler. First Battler was the illegitimate son of Rudolf (from unknown woman X; could be Kyrie, Asumu, anyone, inside or outside of marriage, prior to marriage, adultery, etc. There have been a few hints and such by Kyrie about Rudolf's (and men in general) fidelity.) He may not have even had the name of Battler. What is important is that he existed and was a grandson of Kinzo. First Battler is brought to the orphanage and all is quiet. Rudolf has Second Battler with [some woman who is not Asumu]. At some point between the birth of Second Battler and the death of Asumu, First Battler is reintroduced and takes Second Battler's place. There was mention of inheritance plots and other misdeeds in the past (in EP4, I believe), so at this point I will say that [Vague Family Problem X] caused the shift from First to Second.

edit: I mixed something up. First Battler must not be from Asumu. Second Battler could be.
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Old 2009-12-28, 19:09   Link #1830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
The child from 19 years ago did die. The person who called Natsuhi somehow learned of his story (through Genji, Kinzo, or Nanjo), and decided to use it as a means of manipulation. (Aside: I don't think there's any practical difference between the kid surviving and being told his backstory and another kid being falsely told that he was the kid.)

As for the messages, the phoner could be using a variable speed tape recorder. Alternately, the phoner could be an actor who's off the island the whole time (Genji is lying about whether it's an outside line, or someone on the island is fiddling with the switchboard.)
Couldn't Kumasawa also know? She was holding the baby when it was given to Natsuhi, so she knew of its existence. I'm pretty sure she would notice a baby vanishing and spread some rumors.


Also, did the baby ever once say "For pushing me off a cliff 19 years ago!", or only just "For what you did 19 years ago." If someone found out a baby mysteriously vanished 19 years ago, when they call, they don't have to say "You pushed me off a cliff!" just that something happened 19 years ago.
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Old 2009-12-28, 19:11   Link #1831
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Originally Posted by Tjfarmer View Post
Couldn't Kumasawa also know? She was holding the baby when it was given to Natsuhi, so she knew of its existence. I'm pretty sure she would notice a baby vanishing and spread some rumors.


Also, did the baby ever once say "For pushing me off a cliff 19 years ago!", or only just "For what you did 19 years ago." If someone found out a baby mysteriously vanished 19 years ago, when they call, they don't have to say "You pushed me off a cliff!" just that something happened 19 years ago.
I fully agree. Even if the young man never said 'pushing me off a cliff', just mentioning the 'incident 19 years ago' would cause Natsuhi to panic. I think it is highly likely that the manipulator doesn't even know what exactly happened, except that a boy died and now he's impersonating him as if he survived.
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Old 2009-12-28, 19:11   Link #1832
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The entire 'inheritance plot' was just an explanation made by Beatrice to explain why the Battler in front of her wasn't her opponent. I doubt that anything like that actually happened. But again - I can't see Rudolf just throwing his son into an orphanage. Even if Kinzo would tell him to do it.
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Old 2009-12-28, 19:47   Link #1833
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Talking

Dlanor A. Knox is just awesome.
Quote:
Dlanor A. Knox: "As long as I'm here, I will protect that TRUTH. ......No matter how pathetic it is, I will not laugh at that TRUTH."

Erika Furudo: "Ah, ......waaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!"

......The Words of Dlanor, whom Erica has previously looked down upon, led Erica to once again thrash about on the floor sobbing.
Now that's just cold ^.^ And Erica deserved it ^.^

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In the end, it has been gouged to death by bunch of stake girls and goats...
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:00   Link #1834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjfarmer View Post
So regarding the Man From 19 years ago, I'm sure many people have thought this up before;

Spoiler for First call:


Spoiler for Second Call:


Spoiler for Third Phone Call:


So after all that, the only logical solutions I can come from is it is either;

-The adults messing with Natsuhi (assuming one of the men can disguise their voice)
-One of the cousins (Battler or George)

If you really want to go out on a limb, you could say that George and Shannon are working together for this, which is at this time, what I believe. Shannon could easily get into Natsuhi's room, and place those season cards behind four objects, and then George can call her up. For all we know, George could have excused himself from playing cards for a moment to make the second call.

So in short, George is the man from 19 years ago, for who knows why, and he calls Natsuhi up.

Pretty sure I'm wrong though.
The second call can be from Krauss or Genji if they are conspiring against Natsuhi. 'Though I don't really have any reason why. Then again, I don't have any reason for anyone to do such a call.
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:10   Link #1835
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The second call can be from Krauss or Genji if they are conspiring against Natsuhi. 'Though I don't really have any reason why. Then again, I don't have any reason for anyone to do such a call.
Genji transferred the call and immediately went to the servant room, which means he either continued the talk from there or didn't at all.

At the same time I can't imagine Krauss or Genji doing it. Genji doesn't seem like the type to harass his superiors and I can't fathom Krauss doing such a horrible thing to Natsuhi.

I think George is probably the one making the calls. Changing from 'ore' to 'boku' and he was readily available at the time as well.
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:12   Link #1836
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Uhm you are right Genji can't, but Krauss still can't be ruled out, even so the probability is extremely low.

I also think that George is a primary suspect. Of all the various possibilities he's the one who is more likely to be this mysterious man.
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:19   Link #1837
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Uhm you are right Genji can't, but Krauss still can't be ruled out, even so the probability is extremely low.

I also think that George is a primary suspect. Of all the various possibilities he's the one who is more likely to be this mysterious man.
Krauss can't be ruled out, but again why would he harass his wife about that? It would make more sense for him, as her husband, to simply talk to her about it rather than making calls. Especially during the family conference when they have to run around with the servants to make sure Kinzo is 'alive'.

George also has every chance. He could have called Natsuhi up the first time, the second time and the third time - especially since we know he wasn't dead when his body was moved.
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:26   Link #1838
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If George does it, how does he know and why? Kumasawa -> Shannon -> George as a chain of knowledge is possible, especially if you use a Shannon = "Beatrice" theory, as that could make Kumasawa/Virgilia her literal teacher.

But what does he gain from being the one to threaten Natsuhi specifically? And if he's doing this, who kills him?
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:27   Link #1839
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The idea that George and the others faked their death and nobody noticed isn't really working for me. Considering the kind of wound it was described that is practically impossible.
The other possibility is that everyone is in a conspiracy against Erika, but why would they do that to a perfect stranger. Well... maybe it wasn't Erika the target but Natsuhi and Erika simply happened to be a stranger who wasn't trusted enough to be told the truth.

Another possibility is that the bodies were fake, like waxwork statues, but that's insane that nobody noticed and you'd have to think Nanjo is part of the plot.

The conspiracy theory against Natsuhi could also explain George's involvement in the man of 19 years before stuff. There is also the possibility that the calls weren't made by the same person and that might be why the first time he uses "ore" and the second he uses "boku".
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Old 2009-12-28, 20:29   Link #1840
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The other possibility is that everyone is in a conspiracy against Erika, but why would they do that to a perfect stranger. Well... maybe it wasn't Erika the target but Natsuhi and Erika simply happened to be a stranger who wasn't trusted enough to be told the truth.
There are plenty of reasons they might do this:

1) Pressure Natsuhi.
2) Test Erika to see if she's really who she says she is and what she's up to.
3) Reward Erika for helping find the gold with a mystery to solve; the whole thing is a game, which the real killer exploits.
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