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Old 2009-12-30, 10:00   Link #101
FlareKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
Sometimes a straightforward classic plot can serve a movie well. I could not see this movie working well at all in a Fight Club or Inglourious Basterds structure. At least its original intellectual property. Everything nowadays are remakes or novel/comic book adaptations. Star Wars depended on a very classical knight-in-shining-armor, damsel-in-distress kind of story. That didn't stop it from being ground-breaking. I think many people are just "too cool for school" and tend to rebel against anything accompanied by a huge amount of hype.

As for the evil military/corporate figureheads being very one-dimensional, I thought that was the point. Those consumed with greed/power are sometimes nothing but.
Maybe it's just about themes? I mean like you said Star Wars was hardly original in terms of the themes being presented. I think it's just about whether those themes appeal to individuals or not. Really the themes they were using for Avatar didn't really appeal to me so it was all up to the visuals (which thankfully were great) to carry it.

I'm sure there are those who heavily criticize it just because it is popular. Though at the same time there are valid reasons for criticism so can't discount all of them. In the end long as people enjoyed the movie it's fine for them to say so.
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Old 2009-12-30, 13:16   Link #102
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For me, it's the best movie ever!

And I watched helluva lot of movies (I must confess I'm not that young - for example I watched Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back and Escape from New York in the year they were released ).

Also, I'm a fan of Sci-Fi genre in literature since maybe early 1980s

And, Avatar isn't just exceptionally good, - it's groundbreaking. In 20 years from now this very movie will be remembered as the one that started the new era in cinema.
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Old 2009-12-30, 14:43   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus17 View Post
For me, it's the best movie ever!

And I watched helluva lot of movies (I must confess I'm not that young - for example I watched Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back and Escape from New York in the year they were released )

Also, I'm a fan of Sci-Fi genre in literature since maybe early 1980s

And, Avatar isn't just exceptionally good, - it's groundbreaking. In 20 years from now this very movie will be remembered as the one that started the new era in cinema.
It wasn't that good.
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Old 2009-12-30, 15:12   Link #104
iLney
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I heard this movie is racist, is it true? I won't be watching it then....
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/wi...ty-award-2009/
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Old 2009-12-30, 16:01   Link #105
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Originally Posted by iLney View Post
I heard this movie is racist, is it true? I won't be watching it then....
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/wi...ty-award-2009/
Racist? No, it is not really racist. Simplistic, though...Yes, it is highly simplisitc. This is an old story told straight with the only modern updates being the theme of preservation of nature (which many of the older stories did not care much about).

That being said, the only one that can decide whether the movie is good or bad is you. So, instead of reading a random article from The Telegraph, why don't you just spend the few euros/dollars/etc and see the film for yourself...
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Old 2009-12-30, 16:24   Link #106
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Hmm... maybe I'll give it a try
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Old 2009-12-30, 19:17   Link #107
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While it is true that the plot is not really original, I have to admit the movie completely pulled me in. I actually found myself hoping that the main characters would survive and cheering whenever
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2009-12-30, 19:26   Link #108
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So my godfather took me to see this movie, I have to admit, visually the movie is breath taking, but in the end the movie fell flat, character development was a minimal, the people had very little interaction and I think that if they had cut out the whole love relationship this movie could have possibly swept the oscars. Also the movie lacked any tension, although sully is doing these death defying feats I felt no fear, no possibility that he would die, instead it deflated everything he did. He was superman and his nemesis was a plush poodle. Really the story was average, the acting very subpar. What's the point of having sygornie weaver to have her in like 20% of the scenes doing nothing but playing an unchanging character that never even gets close to the mad scientist she is supposed to portray.

The thing is Cameron portrays the military as a bunch of gungho trigger happy monkeys, and that the corporate head is the one who is "compassionate" relative to the sargent. In the end the characters are 1 dimensional, they don't have depth, sully's change is supposed to be dramatic, so much so that he sacrifices the life he has known to live with the people that he has found. Also cameron completely ignores the idea that cloning creates something that itself inherently has a soul unless the beings are supposed to be dolls, because in the end none is really defined. Why does the pilot defect? She's so characterless that I forgot her name after just watching the movie. I wonder why. The movie is a good movie, but it really isn't great or anything above say District 9 or hell even star trek was better.

Last edited by Nosauz; 2009-12-30 at 19:38.
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Old 2009-12-30, 20:14   Link #109
cheyannew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
I heard this movie is racist, is it true? I won't be watching it then....
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/wi...ty-award-2009/
Racist in what way? Humans vs nonhumans? then yes, it is... being that the humans for the most part are the bad guys...

That article, and others like it, are just people trying to stir the pot... Honestly, these days it seems people will see "racism" in anything, intentional or not.

Besides, the "black people" in this, aka the Na'vi, are the ones who win and drive off the white man, so I fail to see how this could be construed as racist (as opposed to things like District 9 where there was a definite overtone of racism, etc).
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Old 2009-12-30, 20:19   Link #110
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This has nothing to do with "black people" the navi are far more similar to the native americans. This is specifically from their intuneness with nature. This is a heavily didactic movie that seems to be an attempt to shame americans of their treatment of native americans during the expansion of the west and the settling of the east. And not so much african americans since the racism features little to do with slavery and more with a land grab/resource grab much like in the 1800s and european powers that ravaged latin america and south america.
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Old 2009-12-30, 20:32   Link #111
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Originally Posted by cheyannew View Post
RacBesides, the "black people" in this, aka the Na'vi, are the ones who win and drive off the white man, so I fail to see how this could be construed as racist (as opposed to things like District 9 where there was a definite overtone of racism, etc).
Why some consider it potentially racist is because, much the same as Sandra Bullock's The Blind Side, the movie seems to hinge on a white man saving the natives from other white men. Obviously, this is a very glib interpretation of the story, and only the most pc sensitive would really draw this conclusion, but it can still be interpreted this way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
This has nothing to do with "black people" the navi are far more similar to the native americans. This is specifically from their intuneness with nature. This is a heavily didactic movie that seems to be an attempt to shame americans of their treatment of native americans during the expansion of the west and the settling of the east. And not so much african americans since the racism features little to do with slavery and more with a land grab/resource grab much like in the 1800s and european powers that ravaged latin america and south america.
American? That is just one of dozens (plus) countries/nationalities that have committed such atrocities in the history of mankind (the US isn't even the most recent). If any "shame" is supposed to be had, it is not for a specific nationality, but rather for all mankind...
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Old 2009-12-30, 21:48   Link #112
cheyannew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
This has nothing to do with "black people" the navi are far more similar to the native americans. This is specifically from their intuneness with nature. This is a heavily didactic movie that seems to be an attempt to shame americans of their treatment of native americans during the expansion of the west and the settling of the east. And not so much african americans since the racism features little to do with slavery and more with a land grab/resource grab much like in the 1800s and european powers that ravaged latin america and south america.
I was using that specific term as it was in the article that had been posted; similarities were made between the Na'vi and African tribes. Personally I saw far more Native American similarities but what do I know, as I don't write blogs/articles, right?
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Old 2009-12-30, 21:50   Link #113
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by cheyannew View Post
I was using that specific term as it was in the article that had been posted; similarities were made between the Na'vi and African tribes. Personally I saw far more Native American similarities but what do I know, as I don't write blogs/articles, right?
That must be true... shame on you for not having a blog!!!!!!!!!!

But yeah racism is less apparent in this movie, but man the cheesiness is just far too much, I mean I guess thats why kids don't come up with great movies :P
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Old 2009-12-30, 22:46   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
Sometimes a straightforward classic plot can serve a movie well. I could not see this movie working well at all in a Fight Club or Inglourious Basterds structure. At least its original intellectual property. Everything nowadays are remakes or novel/comic book adaptations. Star Wars depended on a very classical knight-in-shining-armor, damsel-in-distress kind of story. That didn't stop it from being ground-breaking. I think many people are just "too cool for school" and tend to rebel against anything accompanied by a huge amount of hype.
I agree with this. I did not adore this movie like so many others did. I thought it was a good movie, but with a hyped movie there is always more criticism then there really needs to be. I'm sure there are flaws in the movie, but so many people seem so happy to jump on the bandwagon and hate on it just because it's so popular.

In fact I even saw somebody say that everybody who liked the movie at all is a tool. I'm sorry, but who exactly is the real tool there?

Silly people, they think that hating something that's popular makes them different. But no, when you judge something so much based on it's popularity you are still a tool.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. What I liked the most about this movie was seeing the whole new world and and all of the neat plant types. I'm a sucker for adventure type stories, no doubt about it.
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Old 2009-12-31, 02:57   Link #115
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its not really the real military. its a PMC. people who watch this movie and complain about political correctness or conservation are watching this for the wrong reasons.
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Old 2009-12-31, 03:25   Link #116
Ending
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Silly people, they think that hating something that's popular makes them different. But no, when you judge something so much based on it's popularity you are still a tool.
I don't judge by popularity, but popularity is often a sign of a mediocre production aimed to please the masses. The more there are people the more the movie has to streamline, which means cliche plot and shallow characters.

Avatar is just another streamlined movie and while the effects are neat they aren't the best reason to visit a theater.
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Old 2009-12-31, 07:46   Link #117
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Originally Posted by Envy View Post
I agree with this. I did not adore this movie like so many others did. I thought it was a good movie, but with a hyped movie there is always more criticism then there really needs to be. I'm sure there are flaws in the movie, but so many people seem so happy to jump on the bandwagon and hate on it just because it's so popular.
Simplistic plot, simplistic characters and average actings can't all be masked by stellar CG and breath taking visuals. The characters were flat and boring, it was hard to connect to them because their development was so unrealistic. Like princess girl going from I'm betrayed to I wanna hump your bones to dust in a matter of one event is still ridiculous. The portrayal of the natives with an unblemished past or a very simplistic one really made the contrast between the natives and pmc pretty boring.
Spoiler for pretty damn spoilerish:
If cameron had axed one element, that being the cheesy love story, this movie could have been leaps and bounds better.

@Ending, actually this is the one movie I'd definitely go see in a theatre/imax, because that's the whole point, because the movie really doesn't have a engrossing story there really isn't a rewatchability.
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Old 2009-12-31, 08:52   Link #118
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Like princess girl going from I'm betrayed to I wanna hump your bones to dust in a matter of one event is still ridiculous.
Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Why some consider it potentially racist is because, much the same as Sandra Bullock's The Blind Side, the movie seems to hinge on a white man saving the natives from other white men. Obviously, this is a very glib interpretation of the story, and only the most pc sensitive would really draw this conclusion, but it can still be interpreted this way...
The white guy didn't really save the natives.
Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Spoiler for pretty damn spoilerish:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Spoiler for pretty damn spoilerish:
I'm...not sure if we watched the same characters interact. I certainly didn't get a feeling of Grace and Jake being aloof when they got to know each other better.
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Old 2009-12-31, 11:34   Link #119
Nosauz
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Actually the banshee thing is fine, what I'm pointing out was with the epic mount it shouldn't have been oh, u tame a beast and I can absolve all your sins. Plus this messiah figure in all actuality shouldn't just be a messiah, for the Na'vi to be somewhat complex having jake become a messiah type character was just an easy way to avoid real depth to the na'vi and to jake. The fact that a messiah is solely chosen by riding a mount that isn't perilous in anywhich way then attacking from the sky then thats pretty pathetic for someone to be considered a messiah.

Grace and jake don't actually have a lot of screen time, their relationship is barely developed and clearly the lack of development makes the scene so strange and awkward. There isn't that emotional connection, also bearded indian dude, why is he suddenly trustworthy? I guess because he's a scientist he suddenly is trust worthy, yet there is no signs that the other scientists are untrustworthy? It makes no sense when you look at it, many of the story telling elements where just to make the movie fit into a time frame that is really unrealistic if you want complex characters that are relatable.
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Old 2009-12-31, 11:48   Link #120
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A comment I read on another forum: didn't anyone feel like their life was crap right after seeing this movie?

Though it was random and it was just on an imageboard, the dude was a little right. The reason why I found it a good movie was not all the nice bling bling graphics it had but also the fact that it was in a way of trading a crappy every day life for something awesome. Though it is just teen angst screaming out, I found that he was quite right.. even if denying it you still feel a little jealous
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