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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 25 15.06%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 43 25.90%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 54 32.53%
7 out of 10 : Good 28 16.87%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 4.22%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 2.41%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.20%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.60%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.20%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-08-20, 23:54   Link #121
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Uhm it's strange, after I've finally seen this episode and after having good expectations for it, I've found myself being totally unimpressed.

I dunno if it is right because I've waiting for this episode and therefore I had high expectations, or because it was really below average, anyway everything really felt strange to me.

While the restyle of the goats was very good (they are actually scary now), the battle was kinda anticlimatic. And as for the stake battle, the sudden move of Jessica seemed out of pace. That scene was supposed to be felt like Kanon was going to die and Jessica protecting him should have been a surprise. However the pace didn't even give the time for that.

The discovery of the corpses wasn't particularly emotional. With such a scene in front of their eyes I would expect more screams.

Also Beatrice and Battler first exchange of theories and counterargument was devoid of any epicness. In comparison the battle of logic between Maria and Battler in ep3 was a lot better.

Asmodeus voice really reminds Yui! I can't help but seeing Yui in Asmodeus now. Satan was okay though.

Now I left at the end the thing that disappointed me the most. They have totally skipped the inscription in front of the chapel. I can't believe no one mentioned this. Come on, it is an important hint! How could they overlook it?

At this point I really think that trying to solve the mysteries of this story with just the informations given by the anime comes with a very big handicap.
Are you talking about the inscription on the chapel door or the magic circle? To this day I still don't think the chapel inscriptions are of any importance, however I forgot to note them down on my notes so I need a refresher here.

Edit - Checked my notes and found out I did note down that inscription. I take back what I said, this reference to a specific person does open a whole spectrum of suspicion.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:01   Link #122
Jan-Poo
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I'm talking about the inscription in golden letters on the front of chapel.

Seeing as how that sentence is mentioned again in Ep4, I can't see how this can't be unrelevant.

And btw, at this point I wonder if it will be mentioned in Ep4 in the anime, since they have missed it this time.

And if they miss it even in Ep4, then you won't have any chance to see a certain connection.

Well, even if it ends up being a red herring, it is still a very nice food for thoughts and speculations that is missing here.


When I realized what "m" "b" "t" "q" stand for by myself, I felt a very nice sense of achievement. But anime watchers don't even have a chance to try to solve this riddle.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:06   Link #123
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I'm talking about the inscription in golden letters on the front of chapel.

Seeing as how that sentence is mentioned again in Ep4, I can't see how this can't be unrelevant.

And btw, at this point I wonder if it will be mentioned in Ep4 in the anime, since they have missed it this time.

And if they miss it even in Ep4, then you won't have any chance to see a certain connection.

Well, even if it ends up being a red herring, it is still a very nice food for thoughts and speculations that is missing here.


When I realized what "m" "b" "t" "q" stand for by myself, I felt a very nice sense of achievement. But anime watchers don't even have a chance to try to solve this riddle.
Lol I think we're thinking about different things. If you may please send me a PM of the Golden Inscription I seem to have missed and what you mean by MBTQ because my notes for Ep2 need a lot of updating.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:09   Link #124
Jan-Poo
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what you mean is "happy Halloween for Maria", and that was not only shown, it was read XD.

I'll send you a PM. But actually, if Klash is reading this, I'd like to have a permission to explain this thing for everyone. It kinda pisses me off...
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:14   Link #125
MeoTwister5
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Yeah I was talking about Happy Halloween since it does raise suspicion, but back then I remember prematurely discarding the inscription as mere pointless symbolism, which I sort of regret when Ep4 came around because when the shit hit the fan I sort of recall something in this arc that I probably should have remembered.

I fail at detective work.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:15   Link #126
Isekaijin
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Ookay...

Having not played the VN. I don't have any ideas of what's going on here.

Seeing the fight between Kanon and the "furnitures" and the apparition of those two "stakes" Asmodeus and Satan, I really can't help but think that Beatrice is really a witch.

If it was truly her who killed them with magic, that's another matter.

Damn Beatrice, curse you and your convincing butterflies. I recognize you, now take me to the Golden Land wherever it is!! Maybe is a gold mine under the chapel or something like that.

What's a furniture anyway?
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:17   Link #127
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Furniture are servants, just the umineko name for them.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:23   Link #128
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But to the point to even deny their human feelings? That's treating them as animals or slaves. And if magic does not exist, why Kanon can do that red-thing-in-his-arm stuff?
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:24   Link #129
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Well it was never really explained but from what it can be understood, furnitures from a magical standpoint are artificial humanoids gifted with magic abilities that can be summoned by a magic user.

furnitures need to have an object as a vessel. In the case of the seven sisters of the purgatory, the vessels are the stakes.

It isn't clear what Kanon's vessel is supposed to be, but seeing as how he is probably a real person, it might be that he isn't a furniture at all therefore a vessel doesn't exist and Beatrice is just talking rubbish.

According to Beatrice Kanon is a handmade furniture. She seems to imply that because of that he is superior to the goats. But that mean goats aren't manufacted, so, what the hell? is there a goat factory in the magic world?
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:29   Link #130
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On the main points of Umineko is things may not be what they appear. As I read someone say before, The substance is right, but the way its presented is not.

We are shown Kanon fighting, but it doesn't mean he was fighting against a horde of goats and loli's. Its just a trick to make you believe in magic killing everyone. Its kinda hard to explain.... because even the VN readers are still rather confused about everything..... maybe someone else can elaborate.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:29   Link #131
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Jan-Poo's explanation is more of the anti-mystery explanation for their existence.

The anti-magic stance would most likely explain it as imprinting during psychological development. In other words, the servants were raised under a dehumanizing mindset, taught to think they are furniture who's main purpose is to serve. They grow up in an environment that teaches them to believe they are not human, mere furniture devoid of human qualities who's sole purpose is service.

Whichever one you want to believe is up to you.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:33   Link #132
Isekaijin
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Then I choose to be anti-mystery.

Hell the information given to us is way too shallow. I'm going to get the VN.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:35   Link #133
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I'm actually for the anti-fantasy, but I think that to solve this mystery you first need to understand how "magic" works.

In reality, this scene is not really hard to explain, you just need to think it is a metaphor.

Think about the "seven sisters of purgatory", they practically told you that they are stakes, then what prevents you to think that what you see is just Beatrice's fantastic reconstruction of events where the stakes have a human form and are invincible weapons?

The Goats are actually Gohda, Kanon fought against him and surprisingly at first he had the upper hand, however gohda takes out the stakes and at that point Kanon with his bare hands can't do anything, but Jessica gets between them and she gets hit by Gohda's first stake. So Gohda takes another stake and kills Kanon.

This is just one of the possible explanations.


I don't know if you have seen the movie "hero". Well that's a movie where the same story is narrated from three different point of view. The first two are lies and only the third is the real things. However you still see in the detail anything that happened according to the other two point of views.

At this point you should realize it already. Umineko works on the same way. It can show you something that isn't the truth, as long as it is the "truth" according to a certain perspective. Right now Battler and all of us are inside Beatrice's world, what we see is what she wants us to see. It's how things happened according to her perspective. Is it true or false? It's for you to decide, but don't forget that this her point of view and nothing else. Only the red truth is unquestionable. If what you saw was the absolute truth, why would you need the red truth? Don't forget that this isn't just a story, it is a "game". Ryukishi issued a challenge to all of us, the red truth isn't there for choreography, it is there so we can play the same game Battler is playing against Beatrice, except in reality it is us against Ryukishi.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:36   Link #134
MeoTwister5
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Jan-Poo and I have made another convert. My work here is done.

Rides off on a goat into the mountains.
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:38   Link #135
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Could it be that in the anime they are weeding out some of the red herrings to keep it slightly simplier?
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Old 2009-08-21, 00:55   Link #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I'm actually for the anti-fantasy, but I think that to solve this mystery you first need to understand how "magic" works.

In reality, this scene is not really hard to explain, you just need to think it is a metaphor.

Think about the "seven sisters of purgatory", they practically told you that they are stakes, then what prevents you to think that what you see is just Beatrice's fantastic reconstruction of events where the stakes have a human form and are invincible weapons?

The Goats are actually Gohda, Kanon fought against him and surprisingly at first he had the upper hand, however gohda takes out the stakes and at that point Kanon with his bare hands can't do anything, but Jessica gets between them and she gets hit by Gohda's first stake. So Gohda takes another stake and kills Kanon.

This is just one of the possible explanations.
Whole thing with that explanation is that how the anime shows it there's no way such a thing can occur, because Gohda is in the parlor with everyone else.
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:03   Link #137
Jan-Poo
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This is a matter of timing. There was plenty of time for Gohda to kill Kanon and Jessica before joining the others. Another thing you could doubt is the timing the events are represented. So if Beatrice shows you that crime X happened at the time X it is not necessarily true. So even if you see Kanon fighting goats while Gohda was with the others, it doesn't change the fact that Gohda was alone with Jessica and Kanon for a time long enough to kill both of them.

BTW this a mere example, I'm not thinking it was actually Gohda, I'm just showing how it is possible to play this game from an anti-fantasy perspective.
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:17   Link #138
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Wow this is getting really weird.

And Beatrice is coming off as a real bitch. A elegant bitch, no less.
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:26   Link #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I'm talking about the inscription in golden letters on the front of chapel.

...

When I realized what "m" "b" "t" "q" stand for by myself, I felt a very nice sense of achievement. But anime watchers don't even have a chance to try to solve this riddle.
Only thing I can think of is:

Spoiler for Just in case!:


With each episode, I'm getting more and more tempted to spoil myself to clear things up so I can make better guesses . Man, maybe it's time I pick up the VN...
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:40   Link #140
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Originally Posted by scy46 View Post
Only thing I can think of is:

Spoiler for Just in case!:


With each episode, I'm getting more and more tempted to spoil myself to clear things up so I can make better guesses . Man, maybe it's time I pick up the VN...
Don't. Within the first 4 episodes not much at all is cleared up. Unless you're looking for things the anime cut out. Of course the VN is a better medium to get into the series than the anime, imo.
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