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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 25 15.06%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 43 25.90%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 54 32.53%
7 out of 10 : Good 28 16.87%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 4.22%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 2.41%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.20%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.60%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.20%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-08-21, 01:44   Link #141
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Only the red truth is unquestionable. If what you saw was the absolute truth, why would you need the red truth? Don't forget that this isn't just a story, it is a "game". Ryukishi issued a challenge to all of us, the red truth isn't there for choreography, it is there so we can play the same game Battler is playing against Beatrice, except in reality it is us against Ryukishi.
I wouldn't say the red truth is unquestionable. there are many ways to lie but still tell the truth. remember she said "Everything I speak in red is the truth! There's absolutely no need to doubt it!"
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:50   Link #142
scy46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Don't. Within the first 4 episodes not much at all is cleared up. Unless you're looking for things the anime cut out. Of course the VN is a better medium to get into the series than the anime, imo.
I'll persevere one way or the other; I hate being spoiled but this trying to deduce with missing clues is beginning to wear on my "need to know" mind. A conundrum, really.

And, yeah, the VN is definitely the route to go but I have a few friends who're going through Umineko with me Anime only so they're my driving force to keeping myself spoiler free and ... "mostly" VN free (played some of the first Game after I-V aired).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
I wouldn't say the red truth is unquestionable. there are many ways to lie but still tell the truth. remember she said "Everything I speak in red is the truth! There's absolutely no need to doubt it!"
Personally, I think this means it's the "truth" but can be misleading. Like, a locked room dead body with the statement "Nobody entered the room!" doesn't mean someone outside the room couldn't have killed them (i.e., wounded outside, escaped inside and died).
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Old 2009-08-21, 01:55   Link #143
Alair
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We finally get to Maria's Happy Halloween and it's ruined by censorship... We can hardly even tell that they're dead, let alone that they've become so sweetly delicious. Boo!

Beatrice does do an evil laugh though, on hearing her at first I was worried if she could really get demented enough to get into character. Quite alleviated.
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Old 2009-08-21, 03:34   Link #144
Mirena
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I couldn't agree more with Mint Kashiro (posted a couple of pages earlier). To me, the halloween party was a huge letdown. Where were all the colorful sweets and what's up with the awfully plain table? Also, it lacked almost any kind of shock value. I mean, in the visual novel they first see them sitting at the table, think it looks like they're sleeping and BADAM horrible truth.

The rest was... okay I guess. I'm still too disappointed with the halloween scene to really care. But Jessica and Kanon's death scene was well done.
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Old 2009-08-21, 04:20   Link #145
FlareKnight
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Well we've started to get some more bodies here. Not exactly a great way to go for those parents I have to say. Since it was blurred had to follow what the people were saying about it. You'd almost have to at least tie Beatrice to the crime since it was only something a pretty cruel person could do. But will just have to keep eyes open for clues and see what Battler can come up with.

Once again Kanon puts up a good struggle to the end. If it is magic he's up against a tough opponent. I mean come on flying maggical stakes? Unless those things run out of gas you can't really survive no matter how much you dodge. Can only keep that up against fast moving small objects for so long. Of course there are still other possibilities open. Could have been an illusion. Would have been tough for Jessica and Kanon to survive if they didn't even know what they were trying to survive against. Wonder as well about moving Kanon's body. Pretty rude to do that kind of thing. Don't know if it's being done to throw off Battler by making Kanon a suspect in Jessica's death or what.

Battler did a fine job handling that struggle with Beatrice. Yet he's still a very long way from solving this whole affair. Until he does family members are going to be killed off again and again. I'm still holding out on outside forces involved in these killings. Doesn't have to be the family members quite yet.
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Old 2009-08-21, 06:06   Link #146
Skullchukka
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Well I've presented this idea at the VN Ep3 thread, it has lots of holes in it, but this was in my head starting from the first introduction of "red truth" in the first place.

What if the red truth itself is always a lie? Everything I say in red, is truth.
If red truth is always a lie, then it won't contradict with the statement above.
Please keep the red discussion anime-only, I know they've only given like 3-4 statement this episode but It could be a start.

After all, she claims to be a witch. After seeing her evil side with Shannon & George, I say we shouldn't trust a witch.
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Old 2009-08-21, 06:14   Link #147
chounokoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullchukka View Post
Well I've presented this idea at the VN Ep3 thread, it has lots of holes in it, but this was in my head starting from the first introduction of "red truth" in the first place.

What if the red truth itself is always a lie? Everything I say in red, is truth.
If red truth is always a lie, then it won't contradict with the statement above.
Please keep the red discussion anime-only, I know they've only given like 3-4 statement this episode but It could be a start.

After all, she claims to be a witch. After seeing her evil side with Shannon & George, I say we shouldn't trust a witch.
But I think it would be quite a lame move to drop in later, that everything we regarded as the truth up to a certain point was the exact opposite.
Not that I would say that it is impossible, I just think it would be terribly bad writing, because then we would really be left with only speculations and nearly no evidence at all.
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Old 2009-08-21, 06:58   Link #148
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scy46 View Post
Only thing I can think of is:

Spoiler for Just in case!:


With each episode, I'm getting more and more tempted to spoil myself to clear things up so I can make better guesses . Man, maybe it's time I pick up the VN...
Are you a VN reader? Because I can't believe you got it without knowing the context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
I wouldn't say the red truth is unquestionable. there are many ways to lie but still tell the truth. remember she said "Everything I speak in red is the truth! There's absolutely no need to doubt it!"
Well yeah I didn't mean to say the interpretation can be only one. What is unquestionable imho is that the red truth is the absolute truth, but the interpretation of a red truth is not a well defined thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullchukka View Post
Well I've presented this idea at the VN Ep3 thread, it has lots of holes in it, but this was in my head starting from the first introduction of "red truth" in the first place.

What if the red truth itself is always a lie? Everything I say in red, is truth.
If red truth is always a lie, then it won't contradict with the statement above.
Please keep the red discussion anime-only, I know they've only given like 3-4 statement this episode but It could be a start.

After all, she claims to be a witch. After seeing her evil side with Shannon & George, I say we shouldn't trust a witch.
It's been demonstrated that the red truth cannot be always a lie, because if they were all "red lies" they would become antithetic.

For example "X died", "X wasn't killed with a weapon" are fine if they are red truths. But if you look at them as red lies then they become: "X didn't die", "X was killed with a weapon", and this is impossible.

Now I can't make an example here, but such contraddiction would happen with the red truths that will be said in the future.
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Old 2009-08-21, 07:31   Link #149
scy46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Are you a VN reader? Because I can't believe you got it without knowing the context.
Not a VN reader, besides limited exposure to Game 1.

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-08-21, 08:00   Link #150
MeoTwister5
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I just realized two things in this episode:

1. Jessica has really wide hips and really big thighs.

2. They precisely focused on Kanon putting Jessica's keys on her bedside table.
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Old 2009-08-21, 08:09   Link #151
Westlo
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I just realized two things in this episode:

1. Jessica has really wide hips and really big thighs.
It's good to see some nice thighs in anime for once. Needs more shots from behind Jessica!
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Old 2009-08-21, 08:11   Link #152
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scy46 View Post
Not a VN reader, besides limited exposure to Game 1.

Spoiler:
Spoiler for omitted scene:
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Old 2009-08-21, 08:48   Link #153
Tjaard
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Well, Satan's VA is awesome and for Asmo is really good, really liked their chara.
They adapted the red truth really good and the rule is k; liked the Kanon action time and his weapon, but the goat are really wonderful
Maria is creepy and annoying as always and Meta Battler win an argument over Beato is awesome
A very good epi with many new entry
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Old 2009-08-21, 08:54   Link #154
NeoWorm
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I promised that I will post my idea how to execute the red text. Using something like subtitles was first idea - but that lacks invention, and there is no sense in using subtitles in anime like this, it doesnt look natural.
But what about "Since you dont believe what I am telling you maybe if I will write it down you will understand it better. Soo... Everything written in red is true." - making the text appear floating in the air, or wave her hand to make it appear. Than the text can be left floating there for whole scene. I think it would make quite nice atmosphere. Also it would be practical for one particular scene from Episode 3.
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Old 2009-08-21, 08:57   Link #155
blitz1/2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Uhm it's strange, after I've finally seen this episode and after having good expectations for it, I've found myself being totally unimpressed.

I dunno if it is right because I've waiting for this episode and therefore I had high expectations, or because it was really below average, anyway everything really felt strange to me.

While the restyle of the goats was very good (they are actually scary now), the battle was kinda anticlimatic. And as for the stake battle, the sudden move of Jessica seemed out of pace. That scene was supposed to be felt like Kanon was going to die and Jessica protecting him should have been a surprise. However the pace didn't even give the time for that.

The discovery of the corpses wasn't particularly emotional. With such a scene in front of their eyes I would expect more screams.

Also Beatrice and Battler first exchange of theories and counterargument was devoid of any epicness. In comparison the battle of logic between Maria and Battler in ep3 was a lot better.

Asmodeus voice really reminds Yui! I can't help but seeing Yui in Asmodeus now. Satan was okay though.

Now I left at the end the thing that disappointed me the most. They have totally skipped the inscription in front of the chapel. I can't believe no one mentioned this. Come on, it is an important hint! How could they overlook it?

At this point I really think that trying to solve the mysteries of this story with just the informations given by the anime comes with a very big handicap.
Satan/Mio's voice was perfect.

Asmo's voice was a bit too high pitched (for reg. talking) but when she said, "Answer me, cute boy!" then that matched.

Both stakes' laughter was excellent.

To me, this gets 8.5/10, best so far. Does anyone else besides me prefer the original blade/sword thingys in the game?
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Old 2009-08-21, 09:21   Link #156
MarthX
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Could it be that in the anime they are weeding out some of the red herrings to keep it slightly simplier?
The interview with Ryukishi07 did say that the anime would have less hints but it would also have less false leads. The VN gives you a lot more information but it has a lot more false leads too.
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Old 2009-08-21, 09:27   Link #157
risingstar3110
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Spoiler for This ep, for those haven't seen:



A question: why the problem about "whether Battler have to suspect his family behind this or not" was brought up so many time. I means most of us don't want suspect our family to be the culprit, (some of us may have few exception through, e.g. mother in law xD j/k ) but if it can't be helped then we will have to accept aren't we?
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Old 2009-08-21, 09:51   Link #158
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Spoiler for This ep, for those haven't seen:



A question: why the problem about "whether Battler have to suspect his family behind this or not" was brought up so many time. I means most of us don't want suspect our family was the culprit, (some of us may have few exception through, e.g. mother in law xD j/k ) but if it can't be helped then we will have to accept aren't we?
More like pigheaded Battler, he doesn't eseentially want to even consider the possibility that any one of them could be behind the murders, but I'm assuming he'll be willing to admit the possibility if no other human explanation is possible.
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Old 2009-08-21, 11:41   Link #159
June 1983
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I finally watched this episode last night, and really enjoyed it, more than last week, which I only gave a 7. I gave this one a 9.

- The pacing felt fine to me. As a VN player, I knew they were skipping over things, but from an entertainment standpoint, the pace felt fine, balancing action with drama very well.

- Loved Satan's voice, and I actually liked Asmo's voice, too. I didn't expect her to have that kind of voice, but I think it makes the transition to her more "bloodthirsty" voice more effective.

- Censorship of the Halloween feast is annoying, but as others have said, that's really the TV station than the animators. It'll be uncensored on the DVD, and hopefully there will be more, ahem, detail of the sweet dreams. I do wish they had included Rosa throwing up, though.

- Loved the red text and all of the meta-scenes! Very effective. I don't remember getting all that excited when Battler makes his point about the key and the doorway when I played, so I didn't have a problem with it.

- The Kanon vs. Goats scene was ridiculously over the top, but it didn't bother me. The only thing about that scene that bugged me was the animation quality! Why and how did Jessica's room become so big and empty! Who the hell has a huge bedroom with a bed squeezed into the corner and about 20x20 feet of empty carpet! There were some points where it looked like a freaking ball room Lazy lazy animating.

- Kanon's attempt to tell Jessica his real name broke my heart, just like in the game. And Requiem!!! Though they didn't play the best part of the song (the ending), I was still happy to hear it and I hope to hear it again soon.
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Old 2009-08-21, 12:24   Link #160
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
Who the hell has a huge bedroom with a bed squeezed into the corner and about 20x20 feet of empty carpet!
Well, I think there's some room for debate here. After all, Jessica is the next in line to become the head after Krauss, so it's no surprise she gets a massive room. Considering how massive the whole mansion is for 4 people and some servants to be living in it, that room alone isn't so over the top.

Also, we know that Jessica spends a lot of her time--in fact, all of her free time--over on Niijima island, so it's not totally ridiculous that her room on this boring island is a bit sparse.

I won't say any more here, but the animators really didn't have a choice, even though it might not match perfectly with the VN.
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