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Old 2013-02-27, 19:59   Link #2601
Justin_Brett
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I see liking hoods is a common trait in Sieglinde's line.

Wonder how they'll justify the person called Jeremiah being a girl if they are one.
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Old 2013-02-27, 22:36   Link #2602
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I don't think it really matters. I am surprise Einhart's ancestor wasn't a little girl as well. We are going with Fate/Stay Night logic here: If we can, we will put everyone as a cute girl.
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Old 2013-02-27, 22:37   Link #2603
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I am surprise Einhart's ancestor wasn't a little girl as well. We are going with Fate/Stay Night logic here: If we can, we will put everyone as a cute girl.
Another male character? Madness!
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Old 2013-02-28, 00:08   Link #2604
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Hey this at least open room for all the funny things must be going in the mind of a 12 years old girl with the memories of male person on her. Must be confusing.
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Old 2013-02-28, 00:28   Link #2605
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Pure reason why Einhart likes girls: She's got a guy's memories on her. She's also experienced cause she now knows what it looks like to be a guy. A huge d-
Einhart: >///< I didn't see anything!
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Old 2013-02-28, 00:48   Link #2606
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Well, at least we know Olive was born without arms now. That or she lose them at a young age since the raws of chapter 46 have her as a kid without arms.

That actually bothers me. It was say that the Saint Kaiser modify their bodies to be perfect killing machines and the pick of weapon so, how is that Olive lost her arms? I mean you can't say she did it just to put on the ones from Jeremiah, because that will be stupid. With that logic she might as well become a full robot.

Then again nobody in ViVid seems to have too much common sense anymore. We have a bunch of kids cheering up when they seem to be going to a trip at the Infinite Library. Do these girls know the meaning of fun beyond hitting each other? I mean we never see them having just normal fun, is always studying, training or just beating each other in to half nakedness. Which is really disturbing when most of them are 10.
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Old 2013-02-28, 00:50   Link #2607
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Maybe it was a genetic malformation due to past modification on previous ancestors on Olivie's bloodline o.o? As if, she borns with the great power of the Belkan Emperors but without the arms to use it ...so they gave her arms to wield said power ...or some epic stuff like that xD
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Old 2013-02-28, 02:06   Link #2608
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I don't know. Maybe the dialogue explains this but part of me hopes it doesn't. No because I don't want to kno but more because I just think how odd is for youn Claus and Olive to see each other for the first time and then Claus ask about her lack or arms
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Old 2013-02-28, 02:11   Link #2609
Akiyoshi
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That at least will be interesting. It's definetely an arkward moment so seeing young Claus reaction will be amusing ...Olivie seems to be like the type of girl who's innocent and cheerful enough to don't mind her lack of superior limbs.
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Old 2013-02-28, 06:20   Link #2610
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Well, at least we know Olive was born without arms now. That or she lose them at a young age since the raws of chapter 46 have her as a kid without arms.

That actually bothers me. It was say that the Saint Kaiser modify their bodies to be perfect killing machines and the pick of weapon so, how is that Olive lost her arms? I mean you can't say she did it just to put on the ones from Jeremiah, because that will be stupid. With that logic she might as well become a full robot.
Yeah, I'm wondering about that potential plothole as well. There's a few explanations I can come up with (she lost them in the war/an accident, she was just a key to move the Cradle so she didn't need them, someone screwed up in the gene lab), but they're all speculative at best for now.

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Then again nobody in ViVid seems to have too much common sense anymore. We have a bunch of kids cheering up when they seem to be going to a trip at the Infinite Library. Do these girls know the meaning of fun beyond hitting each other? I mean we never see them having just normal fun, is always studying, training or just beating each other in to half nakedness. Which is really disturbing when most of them are 10.
Well, for one going to a library means they'll be having fun not hitting eachother, so I don't see how the two complaints link.

Second, when martial arts are your hobby (which, by the way, can start as early as five. I myself started at seven.), then yes, hitting eachother is going to sound like a fun passtime.

And third, did you completely forget the vacation at Lutecia's and the playing in the water?
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Old 2013-02-28, 08:53   Link #2611
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Second, when martial arts are your hobby (which, by the way, can start as early as five. I myself started at seven.), then yes, hitting eachother is going to sound like a fun passtime.
Don't forget how Nanoha made her friends...

She beat them/blew them up.

Slapped Arisa...

SLB Fate

Divine Buster Vita

Crossfire Shoot Teana...

Blaster Mode Excellion Buster Dieci...

Blaster 3 Starlight Breaker Vivio...

And if you look at her origin story, she beat Chrono up and ended up marrying him.
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Old 2013-02-28, 12:25   Link #2612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Maybe it was a genetic malformation due to past modification on previous ancestors on Olivie's bloodline o.o? As if, she borns with the great power of the Belkan Emperors but without the arms to use it ...so they gave her arms to wield said power ...or some epic stuff like that xD
*points at Vivio who is Olivie's clone*

Naaaah...
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Old 2013-02-28, 13:32   Link #2613
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Yeah, I'm wondering about that potential plothole as well. There's a few explanations I can come up with (she lost them in the war/an accident, she was just a key to move the Cradle so she didn't need them, someone screwed up in the gene lab), but they're all speculative at best for now.
Maybe this whole investigation will bring some light in to Olive, Claus and now Jeremiah. To be honest is the only thing so far I am kind of looking forward to. I just think the fact she is “just the key to move the Cradle” doesn’t quite work. Vivio was just that to Jail (To the point I wonder why he send her away to “learn” magic but that is for StrikerS thread) but the Saint Kaiser were important figures and Olive was the one who assume such role.

To be fair it was say on early chapters during Ein and Sieg’s fight that if Olive accepted to be the one who pilot the Cradle she will lost control over her body and was heavily imply that the one in that role will be nothing but a puppet. Olive decides to go because if she didn’t then other will have to take her place. But again I just don’t like the idea because makes it all the more stupid when we compare this to Quattro’s actions in StrikerS. It does explain some things but is so bizarre. Again, that is not here sorry.


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Well, for one going to a library means they'll be having fun not hitting eachother, so I don't see how the two complaints link.

Second, when martial arts are your hobby (which, by the way, can start as early as five. I myself started at seven.), then yes, hitting eachother is going to sound like a fun passtime.

And third, did you completely forget the vacation at Lutecia's and the playing in the water?
Fair enough but it just seems so… odd. I mean which kids will consider going to the library a fun trip? More when you consider how active and energetic this girls are. On that note we hear this girls go to school, they get all really high grades, they train with rescue services and perform military training while also having time to perform their own training, sleep enough, train in the morning, make their homework, go to school, just get some time to visit friends and… where they find that much time?

For all the things they do and show I really know so little about them. They don’t seem to me like regular kids at all. Just saying I will like them to interact more as humans instead of this unnecessary padding until the next fight scene the manga give us almost all times. Granted the latest chapters have being trying to develop some character but then again why wait for so long? I just want to see this getting a little more interesting and sadly I like the ancestors more than the modern versions, at least they seem to have reasons to care and real passion that comes with their situation. But this should be the other way around.

Right out the bat we establish that Vivio is nothing like Olive while Einhart is all on living up to Claus memories. Instead of play with that and use the more creative route they were for the whole “long pointless tournament approach” so we can get to the “honor your ancestors but don’t hurt yourself over the dead” thing when Einhart finally fights Sieg. Don’t get me wrong I like the idea but we could go this route with Vivio who already tried to befriend Einhart at the beginning of the manga: why wait until now?

All we did, and let’s be honest here, was spend several chapters looking at pointless fights. Vivio still doesn’t know anything about her past, Einhart still wants to live just because of her ancestor memories and they finally decide to learn more so they can get it over it. Just that now we have a third girl that has some relationship there and a whole bunch of other girls that have nothing to do with that past but are going for the ride anyway because… there wasn’t enough fanservice with just Vivio, her friends and Einhart I guess.

Overall I just feel they waste my time instead of going for the actual story, introduce even more characters that really serve no purpose so far and they are right back to where we start before the tournament. Einhart still doesn’t open herself to the rest, even after spending so much time with them and Vivio wants to help her and understand her feelings so they can become friends because… she is following Nanoha steps?

Yes come to think about it why Vivio cares about this? All she knew was that Einhart is strong and she might be related to her original but why she even cares about it? She doesn’t share memories, Einhart was really cold with her and aside from being rivals I never really get why Vivio decide to just be friends with Einhart. Or why she feels so bad about letting her down when they first fight. Einhart doesn’t say something she can really connect with because at no point Vivio have even try to be Olive, she doesn’t care about her original or let that defines her in any way, to the point she even wanted Otto and the others to not call her “your majesty”.

So all along nice story, at least they last chapter, but really bizarre logics here when I come to think about it. If this was about Vivio and Ein becoming friends we really kind of skip that part in favor of just saying it happen. Can’t be about Vivio’s adventures because she really doesn’t do anything and she even lost the tournament with all her friends to new characters. It sure isn’t about Olive and Claus because then, why we wait so much time to even bring that up again? I just don’t think this manga knows where is going. I’m sorry if you like this series but to me could be better to just have a point. Even Force, with all its problems, has kind of a point: stop the bad guys. Here? What I am rooting for? What is the goal?

And I say a lot more than I intended to. Well that is really my opinion about the things so far, so I guess is that, but really I hope this all make sense by the end.
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Old 2013-02-28, 13:35   Link #2614
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As far as going to the library being considered a "fun time" for the girls, in Vivio's case she went there frequently when she was younger, and was practically considered a librarian there herself. Or was officially a librarian there; I forget which. So even as active as she is, the Infinite Library was essentially her first hobby.
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Old 2013-02-28, 14:13   Link #2615
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When I was a kid, I loved the library as well. Plenty of others like me.

As for Olive, remember she's a dangerous individual. Her handlers probably operated on her when she was young, in order to give het detachable prosthetics later. They wanted a weapon they could disarm at will.
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Old 2013-02-28, 14:19   Link #2616
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Perhaps, but wasn't it said that Olivie wasn't in line for the throne of the Sankt Kaiser at that age?
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Old 2013-02-28, 15:27   Link #2617
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Small correction Sansker, they don't receive military or rescue training. In fact, during the training camp you specifically see the kids training/playing separately from the adults until the mass mock battle.

For the rest... you seem to be taking what you perceive to be normal kid behavior and apply that to every kid. Which is... wrong, to say the least. As a kid, I loved reading as much as I do now. Libraries were fun because that meant lots of stuff to read.

How do they find the time? Same way any kid who sports finds the time to train and still have fun with his friends. It's really not that hard.

These kids love libraries, and they love martial arts. That's all there is to it. The only thing "unnatural" about them is their power. Which is absurd because of magic.

I will agree that focus needs to shift back to Vivio. Main character, Tsuzuki, can't you ever get it right? But your reasoning that she doesn't have a reason to care doesn't hold much water. She might not have had much interest before, but now she has friends directly related to her original. Motivational boost much?

As for why she's disappointed about letting Einhart down in her fight... remember who her mother is.
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Old 2013-02-28, 15:42   Link #2618
Justin_Brett
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Olivie not being intended for the throne could explain why she was born without them, couldn't it? Why waste time perfecting someone who won't be a ruler.

Plus she was originally at Klaus' just to be a political prisoner, if I recall right. I guess he either liked her more than her parents did, or Jeremiah's the only one who can make prosthetics like that.
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Old 2013-02-28, 15:48   Link #2619
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It would also explain the previously baffling fact that Vivio's offense is lacking. Vivio doesn't have fancy augs to punch people with.
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Old 2013-02-28, 16:08   Link #2620
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The sure can fool me with heir training. I mean Nove says Vivio and her friends train in the pool but the translation I read doesn’t make it clear the difference when Nove talks about herself and the kids, so yes my mistake there. But my point still holds despite that: they really do so much intense training to the point it almost looks like they don’t have life outside working, training, eating and sleeping. And I mean that for all the characters. I know that is not the case but really we focus on that “super awesome” trip to… train. Yes, I say is kind of odd you decide to take some rest from work by working out like you are in the army. More natural and quiet moments seems to be something ViVid doesn’t like as the chapter where they finally sit down is boring and they just talk about how amazing the training is and everyone else performs.

No, no much as “normal” kid’s behavior because, what is normal? But more about the feeling I get from the kids. I don’t think they act like humans. They seems to be obsess with training at fighting to the point I don’t think they even talk about anything else and overall leaves me with a sense of emptiness about this kids I need to be knowing. I just know they like to hit each other a lot and their entire lives seems to revolve around that fact. Now keep in mind this is the impression they leave on me. I can see something more but is really downplay in favor of: Loli Non-Lethal Match.

Vivio and her friends look more like characters from a very bizarre manga than actual people and this is when characters start to fail to me. Since this lacks story the focus should be on characters and interactions but this doesn’t add up when almost all interactions are either narrated or play with fighting. Again keeping the fight as the focus but this falls flat when you realize “They have been talking over and over about their awesome training”. Even the moment when Einhart learns more about Vivio when they go to the river is focus on the water training. I don’t want to know more useless information about fighting and magic, I want to know this people I am looking at.

So when I say they act odd is because of that. They really don’t have much to share with us beyond their visually impressive movements. So when they cheer up for going to the library I know I am for a boring moment of reading and exposition about people who are not even an active part of the story: Olive and Claus. I know they like to beat each other up and read books but that is about it for many of them and is not even unique when everyone is like that. Any particular trait they might have is really shadow when everyone acts almost the same: friendly fighters who like fighting. I am trying to say the characters feel flat and boring when at first they seem to have more unique stories to tell.

And last, about Vivio, I am keeping what I say. We never see how she deals with being the clone of Olive. We don’t know if that affects her or if she doesn’t give a crap for real. We do see Vivio refusing to be call “your majesty” and the others just ignoring her protest so: how she deals with that? Is she feeling she must live up to that and being Nanoha’s daughter or is she going her on path? This need to be address and right from the start was a good moment. See how she really relates to Olive and everything so when Einhart appears maybe that shakes her believes and she can really be motive to look answers, about who Olive was and who Vivio is. This idea of a self discovery while also coming in peace with the fact she is a clone of other human being. Kind of like Fate’s arc on A’s but this one more develop and focus. I can actually put myself behind this.

But we get just short references that doesn’t add up. I mean, what does it means Vivio is Nanoha’s daughter for her to feel bad about disappointing a complete stranger who was talking about killing her and beat up her teacher because she is the clone of a person who die hundreds of years ago? Vivio doesn’t act like she feels bad because she lost more like she feels she needed to fulfill Ein’s expectations and she doesn’t like fall under that. And this because she doesn’t take fighting seriously enough when there is no reason for her to take it so seriously. Einhart herself lacks clear motivations now. At first she seems like proving her ancestor’s power could beat up Vivio and Ixpellia by killing them and now… she wants to beat everyone?

And again I feel we could work with that as well. Making Einhart just go through intense training and beat other people because she needs to fulfill that desperation of her family tradition and then this arc with Vivio could help her to be free of her ghost and live by herself thanks to Vivio who cares because she feels is something they both need to get rid of and live by themselves without caring about Olive and Claus legacy to be a burden on the two girls. But that is not what we get.

ViVid just doesn’t take itself serious when it matter and tries to make big and great deals over the pointless fighting with no real drama. Part of what makes a fight good if caring about the result because it affects the characters: here it doesn’t bother them that much. Even if I could say Vivio’s loosing bother her in the end she didn’t learn anything she didn’t already knew and her attitude doesn’t change. And to me, the biggest crime in ViVid is using such great opportunities and just throw them to the garbage in favor of boring you out of your mind with a no story arc and eye candy. Characters are here just to get nude and pose in any possible way, hit each other in flashy yet uncreative fighting sequences and just crowd the page with cute faces. And that I can’t just forgive.
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