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Old 2013-03-04, 17:29   Link #2621
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It would also explain the previously baffling fact that Vivio's offense is lacking. Vivio doesn't have fancy augs to punch people with.
Vivio Sharingan'd her mothers' attacks by watching a video of their fights.

How is she lacking offense when she can do that? Especially when she was two years younger.
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Old 2013-03-04, 17:57   Link #2622
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Because it's the raw power she's lacking, and before she had been augmented with a Relic which, among other things, amplifies someone's raw power. To pretty extreme levels, if what we saw from that battle is any indication.
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Old 2013-03-04, 17:59   Link #2623
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Well that is another thing. Even with that in mind Nanoha was already powerful at age 9 and Vivio is a perfect clone of a storng mage. Olive was really strong so Vivio should already have an incredible raw magic power on her side.

Also I always wonder how Vivio did copy her mother attacks when they were both Mid-Childan users and she never really watch them fight. Smart kid.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:00   Link #2624
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According to booklets she was hooked up to the Cradle for magic too, so she had a Lost Logia battleship powering her during that fight.

Also, I should specify that it's not offense in the general sense she's lacking, but rather melee offense. Shante notes she'd make a good wing or back, but is not well suited for martial arts.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:02   Link #2625
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Which again makes no sense as we see Olive being able to kick everyone's ass with her bare hands. Which were robotic yes, but she should need more than just that to be that powerful.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:05   Link #2626
Keroko
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*shrug* It's a possible explanation for the plothole. There's others too, like how Vivio isn't a perfect clone, or how the Cradle battle damaged her to the point where here offense got shot, but "Olivie hits harder that Vivio in melee because she's got augs" sounds good to me.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:09   Link #2627
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Also I always wonder how Vivio did copy her mother attacks when they were both Mid-Childan users and she never really watch them fight. Smart kid.
IIRC, she watched videos of her parents in mock combat pretty often, and sometimes watched Nanoha's training sessions in person. It doesn't always happen on screen, but they can't really show us every day of every month that StrikerS's time line.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:14   Link #2628
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Manga showed that happening. Explained it, even.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:21   Link #2629
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Wait, we're talking about why Vivio isn't as good as Olivie? Uh, isn't that obvious? Physical abilities are not recorded in DNA. Olivie grew up in a time of warring nations, Vivio has a happy and normal life. Just because they have the same genetics doesn't mean their life experiences are the same.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:47   Link #2630
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Yes, but while life experiences aren't recorded in DNA, physical potential is.

And that's the part people keep saying Vivio is lacking in. Not her current strength in melee, but her potential strength.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:51   Link #2631
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Really, explain in the manga? An important plot point and they didn't show it to us so I could see Vivio going to the bathroom and not eating her vegetables? That is just stupid but whatever.

I am saying is odd Vivio isn't stronger and has more raw mana all things considers. She is the clone of Olive and she was powerful. We already establish magic powers had something to do with DNA so why is Vivio so weak? Even Miura is stronger and she is the one that doesn’t have an ancient Belka ancestor. At least not yet.

Also physical abilities are recorded in DNA. Sieg has all her ancestors combats experience store in her body. That is why she is so powerful and good at fighting. Well maybe isn't in her DNA but she does remember that.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:54   Link #2632
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Direct descendant =/= clone
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:00   Link #2633
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I am saying is odd Vivio isn't stronger and has more raw mana all things considers.
She does have a ton of raw mana. It's just that she's terrible at melee combat, a plotswirl that was seemingly done to give Vivio an obstacle to overcome, but now may actually have some basis.

Oh, and she lost the Kaiser Armor. That kind of sucks too, but at least that one was somewhat explained.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:24   Link #2634
Takamura Mamoru
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Let's ignore the very first Season of Nanoha where it was established that skill >>> raw magic power.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:31   Link #2635
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Let's ignore the very first Season of Nanoha where it was established that skill >>> raw magic power.
Why not? Some people try to ignore everything other than A's anyway.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:40   Link #2636
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Actually they never show skill bested power until StrikerS. All the rest of the time fighters were really close in terms of power. Nanoha and Fate being AAA in the first two seasons and only Signum a little above them as S-. Is in StrikerS when we see Teana bested 3 cyborgs with her brain and all the others use their power to best their own opponents. So skill over power is kind of an issue in Nanoha really. They keep saying it matters but they show the other way around: power over power.

And I know about Vivio and obstacles but when we lack a proper story to develop her character and powers I am really sad she sucks as much as she does in this fighting thing. She might not be a clone of Olive at all and just a normal girl for all the impact that had until now. Almost all the time we just ignore that fact and we bring it up just thanks to Einhart and Sieg who are not clones and we will now going away front fighting to reading.

The line of narrative just bugs me because it doesn’t seem focus on anything.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:57   Link #2637
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Really, explain in the manga? An important plot point and they didn't show it to us so I could see Vivio going to the bathroom and not eating her vegetables? That is just stupid but whatever.
You're once again dismissing the anime culture in Japan. While we may get annoyed by the multi-media platform for the franchise, the main customers, those in Japan, do not and never did. The story's meant to be viewed through all of the platforms--anime, manga, and sound stages.
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Old 2013-03-04, 20:24   Link #2638
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
You're once again dismissing the anime culture in Japan. While we may get annoyed by the multi-media platform for the franchise, the main customers, those in Japan, do not and never did. The story's meant to be viewed through all of the platforms--anime, manga, and sound stages.
You forget his position...

"If it's not in the anime, it's not canon and doesn't exist."
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Old 2013-03-04, 20:40   Link #2639
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
She does have a ton of raw mana. It's just that she's terrible at melee combat, a plotswirl that was seemingly done to give Vivio an obstacle to overcome, but now may actually have some basis.
I think Keroko just hit the jackpot here. Taking the first season and A's as an example we see Nanha who was mroe or less stablished as being just plain average in the physical aspect but unholy powerfull and skilled when it comes to magic spells and aerial maneuvers.

It was said Vivio wuuld excel at these things as well yet she's adamant in focusing on close combat even when she's not inherently good at it.
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Old 2013-03-04, 20:53   Link #2640
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You forget his position...

"If it's not in the anime, it's not canon and doesn't exist."
No, my position is to tell proper story without the need of extra material to get the plot points. Which so far I haven’t cross in such a serious way as in StrikerS where almost nothing makes sense in the anime. I don’t care if this common or not: is bad writing, cheap merchandising tactic and makes the anime even less interesting.

But back with ViVid we never really see Vivio using magic in any particular way that we can really say she has lots of power. She runs out of mana at the same time as Einhart and doesn’t seem to have any particular power. You see this idea of being bad at physical might be good if we didn’t already establish that you can make yourself stronger with magic so really is kind of odd that Vivio has a large mana reserve, train to use it in close range and we say “she is not good at it” without any real reason beyond the fact they say so.
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