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Old 2011-02-15, 16:04   Link #341
itanshi1
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oops, getting OT

Spoiler for stuff:
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Old 2011-02-15, 16:06   Link #342
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
And Vivio is a clone of the legendary fighter. The most legendary fighter in the whole series actually.

She's just not suited for front attacker position.
... I don't get it, how would being a clone of the most legendary fighter in the whole series mean she's 'just not suited for the front attacker position?'

Hearing that line in the manga was a big 'wait, what?' moment for me. They've been building up Vivio as a talented little martial artist for the entire series up to that point, and then suddenly she's 'not suited' for it?

D-wha?

Luckily so far they seem to only have veered from 'Vivio is a talented martial artist' to 'Vivio isn't suited, but she's going to screw the rules and be awesome at it anyway.'
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Old 2011-02-15, 16:08   Link #343
itanshi1
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Its just nit picking by competitors/friends and she is a child, she'll find her way.
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Old 2011-02-15, 16:12   Link #344
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I don't have it infront of me right now, but I think they weren't saying that she's 'unsuited' for melee combat, it's just that she's more suited for something else.
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Old 2011-02-15, 17:50   Link #345
TheRainbowConnection
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
And, this is Nanoha, all the fights ARE close combat.

Look at EVERY SINGLE FIGHT IN THE SERIES!

They all are close range combat.
Because so many characters are dependent upon melee range. Any melee character who is half-competent would make it her goal to force the battle to close range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Nanoha is the only one who does beam-spam. Most everyone gets up close and personal.
Hayate is the quintessential nuker. However, given that watching her mow down baddies from Beyond Visual Range makes for generally uninteresting battles, we don't really see her in action.

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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
S1: Nanoha vs Fate, all close combat unless a Divine Buster or Thunder Smasher was used.
See what I said above about fighting melee characters. Did Nanoha ever try to close the distance unless she was trying to talk to Fate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Nanoha fought Vivio in close combat.
...Because the battle happened indoors. It's not like Nanoha tried to use RH as a spear or anything. (It happened all of once, against Reinforce.)

Look at the simulation battle in Vivid. Nukers nuked from afar perfectly well unless forced from their positions by those pesky Front Attackers.
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Old 2011-02-15, 17:56   Link #346
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Originally Posted by TheRainbowConnection View Post
Because so many characters are dependent upon melee range. Any melee character who is half-competent would make it her goal to force the battle to close range.
And that's precisely the point we're making. Melee fights have always been a major part of this series, Vivid is just following in it's footsteps.
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Old 2011-02-16, 03:24   Link #347
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Regarding the interplay between magic and melee, the English version of Fairy Tail mentions that the "do" in "madoshi" (Magician) is the same "do" as in judo, kendo, etc., and points out that this means the Japanese see magicians as martial artists, rather than Merlin/Gandalf types.
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Old 2011-02-16, 04:03   Link #348
itanshi1
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do means 'the way' so its a practice, a use of a technique, so not quite.
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Old 2011-02-16, 04:10   Link #349
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I'll think the message is that you can become good at something as long as you put effort and dedication into it despite not being "suited" to said activity.
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Old 2011-02-16, 08:24   Link #350
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The weird thing about Vivio, and now also Einhart is the fact that despite being close range fighters dependent on Belkan magic they don't use cartridges.

A's showed how much of a difference cartridges make in direct combat. I find it really weird that both of them don't want to use such a useful power-up.
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Old 2011-02-16, 08:29   Link #351
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Well, the cartridge system is supposedly dangerous to the user, so they probably don't want little kids running around with them.
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Old 2011-02-16, 08:32   Link #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
The weird thing about Vivio, and now also Einhart is the fact that despite being close range fighters dependent on Belkan magic they don't use cartridges.
*Imagines Sacred Heart consuming carrot shaped cartridges*

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Well, the cartridge system is supposedly dangerous to the user, so they probably don't want little kids running around with them.
Not having kids use them outside military applications, I presume, considering Nanoha's own track record
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Old 2011-02-16, 08:58   Link #353
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The cartridge system has been fading into the background post-A's. In A's they were very important, to the point where to StrikerS manga made the characters actually went "I only have X cartridges left" from time to time. In StrikerS their presence was a lot vaguer. They were 'there' but they barely seemed to matter anymore. The only time cartridges were actually noticeable was when Teana had a dud, and that was more to point out their homebrew devices were starting to fail than the cartridge itself. The StrikerS manga doesn't even mention cartridges anymore.
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Old 2011-02-16, 10:04   Link #354
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The fact that Teana could actually make her own device with a cartridge system says a lot. Maybe in the intervening years the Wolkenritter brought the system back into style and it became more common and streamlined so anyone can use them safely.
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Old 2011-02-16, 10:32   Link #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
The weird thing about Vivio, and now also Einhart is the fact that despite being close range fighters dependent on Belkan magic they don't use cartridges.
It's the styles they're using. Vivio uses Mid-based Strike Arts. Mid-style magic doesn't use cartridges. For Einhart's Kaiser Arts, we don't have firm data, but it's possible it didn't use cartridges either. She's also big on proving her individual skill, so she may not be interested in the boost offered by cartridges.
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Old 2011-02-16, 11:06   Link #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromaru View Post
The weird thing about Vivio, and now also Einhart is the fact that despite being close range fighters dependent on Belkan magic they don't use cartridges.
Zafira is upset that you forgot about him, as is Reinforce Ein.

Neither of them used Cartridges ever.

Vivio wasn't given any in StrikerS when she went Saint Kaiser, not that she needed any.

Nanoha needed BOTH Cartridges AND the Blaster System to keep up with Vivio at that point.

Besides, where would she store them?

Others who don't use cartridges despite Belkan style.

Vivio
Einhart (as you mentioned with these two)
Verossa
Carim
Hayate
Reinforce Zwei
Shamal
Lutecia
Ixpellia
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Old 2011-02-16, 11:23   Link #357
itanshi1
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Well, its not too unusual I guess. I mean, you can chalk it up to the writer's personal opinions, but there are many kingdoms in belkan history, so its not a wonder if they go about things differently.
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Old 2011-02-16, 11:27   Link #358
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@Nanya: Cartidges are used mainly to give an offensive boost, so defensive types like Shamal wouldn't need them. Zafira is technically more defense based, but he doesn't have a device in the first place, so...

Hayate and Reinforce have enough power as it is, so cartriges aren't needed. And in StrikerS Vivio had her Relic.
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Old 2011-02-16, 11:31   Link #359
itanshi1
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Need a better image of Hayate's device, thought it had an option to use cartidges

i might be confusing it with fanart
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Old 2011-02-16, 12:37   Link #360
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We know, however, that cartridges are useful in defensive magic: look at the Protection Powered spell that Nanoha used to successfully block Graf Eisen.

IIRC, Hayate's staff doesn't use cartridges either.
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