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Old 2012-01-10, 21:34   Link #1821
00-Raiser
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No, they were one class down from Elite.

Anyways, it's really like the Tenchi Budoukai the most.
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Old 2012-01-10, 21:37   Link #1822
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No, they were one class down from Elite.

Anyways, it's really like the Tenchi Budoukai the most.
Yup, they're indeed fighting in amazing battles and all but it's still a sports event with all sorts of rules and security elements to prevent the participants from being in true peril.

Of course, according with G.O.D. Vivio and Einhart already have experience fighting in very real battles as also facing a truly hihg-stakes life or death situation. Problem is, they don't remeber a thing about the event xDU.
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Old 2012-01-10, 21:41   Link #1823
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The only thing left would probably be muscle memory, even if they forgot. Probably ending up wondering how they learned how to fight like that against someone XD
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Old 2012-01-11, 01:52   Link #1824
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Yuuno: don't recall anything special about him
Vita would disagree. He's a handicapped badass.


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Teana: normal and aware of it. Even calls herself "bonjin"
If SHE is normal, then either all other TSAB soldiers are lazy as hell or their instructors are criminally negligent.

I don't think Cross Mirage is supposed to take all the credit for her Illusion magic, Crossfire Shoot, Starlight Breaker, or flight.
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Old 2012-01-11, 02:25   Link #1825
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Vita would disagree. He's a handicapped badass.

If SHE is normal, then either all other TSAB soldiers are lazy as hell or their instructors are criminally negligent.

I don't think Cross Mirage is supposed to take all the credit for her Illusion magic, Crossfire Shoot, Starlight Breaker, or flight.
I think when we boil it down towards comparison with 'the real average faceless mooks who get owned by Type-I Gadget Drones...'

Nanoha/Fate/Hayate/etc are 1 in a 1,000,000,000 kind of talent, either a natural born freak, super talented learner, or born under a star of plot devices.

Everyone else are probably 1 in a 1,000 or whatever. Be it specialised in particular fields, or unique, but a uniqueness that doesn't command 'AAA RANK AT 9 YEARS OLD, NOOBS.' Still talented. Besides, I think one point of Teana's character development was that different people has their different learning curve.

Ultimately, the series has focused on characters with the talent and the drive to achieve their big dreams. If Teana was truly 'normal' as in 'Normal of the 99%'... she'd be drinking in the bars crying how she'll never be an Enforcer.

Or KIA against the Numbers... because a 'normal' person would've lost.
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Old 2012-01-11, 02:26   Link #1826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
~~ If SHE is normal, then either all other TSAB soldiers are lazy as hell or their instructors are criminally negligent.

I don't think Cross Mirage is supposed to take all the credit for her Illusion magic, Crossfire Shoot, Starlight Breaker, or flight.
When your friends are Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc... you start to feel like Joe Average even if you are not.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-01-11, 10:16   Link #1827
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My point is that Teana didn't have any special genetic lineage or background to my knowledge, and I am using her as a litmus test to how for "normals" can go
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Old 2012-01-11, 10:18   Link #1828
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How about Zest? Although he bites the dust, I remember he does not have any unique genetic lineage or background right?
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Old 2012-01-11, 10:25   Link #1829
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My point is that Teana didn't have any special genetic lineage or background, and I am using her as a litmus test to how for "normals" can go
Her having the very rare illusion magic disqualifies her from the normal list. She was special, she just refused to recognize it before the Signum Punch.
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Old 2012-01-11, 10:30   Link #1830
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Isn't that something anyone can learn, though?

It's not like Summon magic or Verossa's doggies, or Carim's fortune telling

But well.. I am doing this to ponder about my previous question

Are Nanoha's circle of friends above average people that are subconsciously drawn to each other?
If so, does that mean that Teana's origin is in fact, not as average as she claims?

Or is it being around these special people that makes a normal like her pushed beyond the limits of a normal?

If it's the 1st case then means this is the rule of shounen jump all over again: certain characters can achieve great things, because they started as special. In a way, the outcome of this tournament has already been decided. Hard work means nothing if you are not born special. If you're a normal mook, no amount of hard work will you equal to someone else who is born special.

If it's the 2nd case it means that all those mooks you see in the Inter-Middle tournament had the potential to be Teana. They just had the misfortune of not having an instructor or circle of friends that would make them reach that height
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Old 2012-01-11, 10:37   Link #1831
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Anyone can learn elemental magic.

Unless you devote a significant amount of time to it, you can't do it, unless you have a natural talent for it.

Which, BTW, one element is rare on its own...

Two elements shouldn't be possible.

Anyway, ignoring my dislike of Rio for a moment...

Even though anyone could possibly learn Illusion magic, the fact that it's rare and hard to learn makes it, in effect, a unique ability.
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Old 2012-01-11, 10:44   Link #1832
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Isn't that something anyone can learn, though?
Nope, the manga definitely called it a rare magic. Caused Ginga to go sparkly eyes too.

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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
If it's the 1st case then means this is the rule of shounen jump all over again: certain characters can achieve great things, because they started as special. In a way, the outcome of this tournament has already been decided. Hard work means nothing if you are not born special. If you're a normal mook, no amount of hard work will you equal to someone else who is born special.

If it's the 2nd case it means that all those mooks you see in the Inter-Middle tournament had the potential to be Teana. They just had the misfortune of not having an instructor or circle of friends that would make them reach that height
I'm going with 1. The "hard work beats a genius" theory only works if the hard worker works harder than the genius anyway. The moment a genius puts the same amount of training into it, he'll quickly surpass the hard worker again.

Example in case: Chrono. Superior to the Aces because of hard work in the first two seasons, surpassed in StrikerS.

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Anyone can learn elemental magic.

Unless you devote a significant amount of time to it, you can't do it, unless you have a natural talent for it.

Which, BTW, one element is rare on its own...

Two elements shouldn't be possible.
This has never been said. Affinities are limited to one element, elemental magic through normal means has never gotten this label and is thus perfectly plausible.
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Old 2012-01-11, 14:25   Link #1833
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I'm going with 1. The "hard work beats a genius" theory only works if the hard worker works harder than the genius anyway. The moment a genius puts the same amount of training into it, he'll quickly surpass the hard worker again.

Example in case: Chrono. Superior to the Aces because of hard work in the first two seasons, surpassed in StrikerS.
Plausible but questionable, special people tend to have strong weaknesses, some more obvious than others, but most of the time those are overlooked or unavoidably ignored because of the very nature of their special talents. Hard workers tend to be more adaptable and, like Teana against the numbers, tend to cash better not only on their strenghts but also the strenghts and weaknesses of their opponent's and the enviroment itself, or the tools/strategies/set ups available in the case of people competing on laboral/scientific fields instead of fighting/sports.

Even if the utmost limit of the hard worker is below the one of a special person the hard worker will still have chance as long as it have confidence on it's resources and enough creativity to work with those.

If i consider someone in the Nanoha cast capable of face the Huckebein just with pure brains and skill that must be Teana.

By the way, Chrono being "below" the Aces in StrikerS was never confirmed(and probably will never be considering his current desk job xDU).
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Old 2012-01-13, 02:02   Link #1834
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I think it's rather appropriate to mention this in context of the Verossa discussion in the GoD thread.

The expanding cast list of Nanoha in general has clear effects on well... just the general 'role' of the characters in general. There's a lot of convergence of character roles amongst the old cast to rationalise the ever-increasing new character cast.

When Hayate and co. helped made create Asteon for Einhart, the back of my mind was thinking... "Shouldn't Carim or Verossa be responsible for this?"

Now, I understand that Carim/Verossa has clearly inducted Hayate, over the years, what it meant to be a modern-day Ancient Belkan, along with all the other capabilities/responsibilities/stuff.

But it's like...

'The plot is heading in a direction where 'New Character #291' will be able to exercise the role she was initially created for!'

'But lol and behold, turns out 'Popular Character #2' has inherited all that knowledge from #291 off-screen and will be the focus character!'

It's rather annoying.
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Old 2012-01-13, 02:05   Link #1835
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Just not enough side stories for everyone so we know what they are doing during this and that :/
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Old 2012-01-13, 04:22   Link #1836
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But it's like...

'The plot is heading in a direction where 'New Character #291' will be able to exercise the role she was initially created for!'

'But lol and behold, turns out 'Popular Character #2' has inherited all that knowledge from #291 off-screen and will be the focus character!'

It's rather annoying.
New characters inexplicably taking over an older character's role is more annoying than that. Such as with Vivio and Lutecia, in SSX.

But Verossa is also just such a time-stealer. He doesn't serve any role in the setting that Fate (investigator) and Yuuno (researcher, scryer, support/binder) or other characters can't. He's unnecessary and redundant, so I'm happy if he never makes a reappearance.

I also don't buy the idea that he happens to be Chrono's childhood friend. That feels just horribly tacked-on, just like... well, EVERYTHING about Verossa.

He's a collection of ill-fitting pieces stuck awkwardly into the story for no apparent reason. On top of that, I don't like his personality. So I basically hate him.


Charim could be a useful character as the head of the Saint Church, but she's also a poorly designed character.

Her prophecy ability is weird, unreliable, and ultimately pointless, and a LAME thing to be her only claim to "Ancient Belkan magic". Certainly, it doesn't seem enough for her to merit the title of "Knight" or even "Ancient Belkan magic user".

Schache has better claim to those titles, since she's actually using Belkan magic and an Armed Device. Zest, too. Charim just comes off as a poser whom everyone humors because of her heritage, rather than someone who deserves respect because of her own efforts or skills. (Verossa is much the same way.)

She's also never done anything (on-screen) with her authority or resources, and until she does, she could be safely left off-screen, mentioned but never seen.

Heck, does she even reveal or develop anything new in Hayate, in their interactions?
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Old 2012-01-13, 04:26   Link #1837
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Whoa, calm it Sunder. What's with the hate for Verossa all of a sudden. Well, Charim's ability was meant to be like that, and don't you think it would be bad if the head of the Church needs to go frontlines?

Also, Charim is one of those strings Hayate pulled when she form Section Six in Sts and also provide her with strong political backing as well so she is not that useless.
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Old 2012-01-13, 04:37   Link #1838
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Whoa, calm it Sunder. What's with the hate for Verossa all of a sudden.
People started talking about why Verossa wasn't around more, so of course I'm going to explain why I think it's better that he isn't.

This isn't all of a sudden; I've always disliked Verossa as a character, and my posts are just responses to the topics at hand.


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Also, Charim is one of those strings Hayate pulled when she form Section Six in Sts and also provide her with strong political backing as well so she is not that useless.
So? She doesn't need to appear on-screen for that. All the story has to do is have Hayate mention to Nanoha that she's friends with the head of the Church, and the Church is one of their principle backers.

There are a lot of PEOPLE that are useful in that world, doing their jobs. That doesn't mean that they are useful CHARACTERS in the STORY.

I mean, the people that wash Nanoha's clothes and make her bed at Riot Force 6 are useful people, but they don't get screen time because they don't offer anything to the story as characters.
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Old 2012-01-13, 04:40   Link #1839
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Its called world building, they added a lot of culture in that ep

we didn't even know there was a church
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Old 2012-01-13, 04:42   Link #1840
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That wasn't the only way to show us there was a Church. And beyond the existence of the Church, what culture did they show us?
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