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Old 2009-08-22, 22:07   Link #1
Metropolisforever
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Question Could It Be Possible to "Manufacture" Humans?

If a robot is sentient, do they have just as much right to life as humans? What if the robot was an exact replica of a human - right down to the emotions, the vulnerability, the unpredictability, ect.? If a robot is physically, psychologically, and emotionally equivalent to a human, would you consider it a human? Perhaps a "manufactured" human?

(NOTE: Usually, whenever I post a serious thread, it gets deleted as "pointless". Well, you know what? This is NOT a pointless thread - there is absolutely no way this thread is pointless. Please, please, PLEASE don't delete it. )
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Old 2009-08-22, 22:10   Link #2
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What would classify it as a robot versus a test tube baby?
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Old 2009-08-22, 22:36   Link #3
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If you talk about human cloning, then it's debatable.
I don't see a resemblance between robots and humans.
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Old 2009-08-22, 22:39   Link #4
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well again if your going to through out a hypothetical, you have to create the rules, and unfortunately there is ambiguity within the rule structure of this current hypothetical question, so state all your premises clearly and then maybe somebody can start formulating a debate
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Old 2009-08-22, 22:43   Link #5
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Originally Posted by Tenken's Smile View Post
If you talk about human cloning, then it's debatable.
I don't see a resemblance between robots and humans.
Humans are basically biological machine, there are no real difference between them if scientist are able to create AI that is just like human.
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Old 2009-08-22, 22:48   Link #6
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Are we talking about synthetically engineered humans? or are we simply talking about sentient AI (in whatever form it may be)?
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Old 2009-08-23, 02:15   Link #7
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I wouldn't call it manufacturing humans as that it definitely doesn't sound right. Does the question of the OP relate to genetic engineering and cloning? If not, there really isn't much of a debate as that the comparison of humans and robots are invalid.
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Old 2009-08-23, 02:20   Link #8
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I'm fairly certain the OP is talking about a Bicentennial Man situation.
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Old 2009-08-23, 02:29   Link #9
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It'll never happen. I seriously doubt that a robot could be made that perfectly mimicked a human. Plus they probably wouldn't be considered human because they wouldn't be able to reproduce. It's a moot point though because its debatable whether or not that level of AI could even be programmed, as someone who is currently working in robotics research I can tell you that I certainly don't think I'll see anything close to a sentient robot within my lifetime or even in my hypothetical children's lifetime.
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Old 2009-08-23, 02:37   Link #10
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Can we talk about "uplifting" other species instead? That seems like a much more likely possibility than developing sentient AI/Robots anytime in the next few centuries, and many of the same ethical problems exist between the two scenarios (additionally, other species have already known reproductive abilities, so their "closeness" to humans would be far more intrinsic, and consequently less debatable than a sentient AI/Robot).

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Old 2009-08-23, 02:41   Link #11
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Is there a difference when a baby is born? It is manifactured in the womb. Are we talking about people born through other means? Like test tubes? Yes, an external womb can be made.
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Old 2009-08-23, 03:45   Link #12
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Quote:
What if the robot was an exact replica of a human - right down to the emotions, the vulnerability, the unpredictability, ect.? If a robot is physically, psychologically, and emotionally equivalent to a human, would you consider it a human?
Nowhere in the world exist two humans that are exactly the same, even twins have differences. You can't create a robot identical to humans, for they lack conciousness: while robots are created to follow certain instructions, humans can act by instinct. Emotions cannot be made into instructions, one would only manage to list their results (changes in mental state,expression,etc.).
At any rate, assuming this would somehow be possible, the answer is no, because people are racists even between normal humans, imagine how they'd act towards artificial humans, even if they were the same.
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Old 2009-08-23, 04:35   Link #13
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IF the technology allows, yes, we can create 'humans', robots, androids etc. that behave just like a human.

But no, we won't do it, because if we have such technology, we would rather create a being even better than a human. And instead of giving it a unique consciousness, we could just transfer our own into them.

Humans are not 'perfect beings' or the 'highest form of evolution' or something great, we are just complex biological machines with a sophisticated bio-computer and operating system. If technology allows, why stop at creating something equivalent to ourselves when we can create something even better?
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Old 2009-08-23, 04:41   Link #14
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^ Because that "something better" might consider our extinction, just as we consider the extinction of mosquitoes? Humans are most damaging towards the environment after all~
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Old 2009-08-23, 05:33   Link #15
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There was a TedTalk presentation about this some time ago. For those of you who don't know what TedTalk is, it's basically an international presentation where they find people around the world to share their ideas. Ideas ranges from cure to global warming, new technology, way of living, etc. It is rather popular, and many presentations are inspiring.

One of them is about the evolution of mankind. The speaker believes that mankind's next step to evolution is not natural, instead our intelligence is what's going to make the next move for us. He believes that we're going for the cyborg route, where humans are going to get increasingly more and more "artificial" but at the same time organic. The idea isn't Ghost in the Shell like, but more along the lines of Blame. Where artificial organisms have evolved to such a degree that they're indistinguishable between natural organisms.

He coined the new race of humans "Homo Evolutis". Interesting stuff.
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Old 2009-08-23, 05:53   Link #16
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I believe that the open lecture I am going to next Thursday is going to cover this (it is at a local uni).

A robot's "sentience" would be based on the brain it is given, technically speaking, the functional AI. Sentience is based on experience, namely what it feels, sees, hears, tastes and smells, which models into something called perception. A human being who has been in a coma for 5 years since birth will have as much sentience as a "sentient" robot which is activated at the same moment which he wakes up.

I don't believe that there is a "right" to life at all. If one wants to live, he/she has to dare to, fight to and be willing to live. Otherwise that thing would be a piece of animated metal or soylent green.

@ C.A - Creating a superior being will spell our demise because it just simply puts us down the food chain and further dividing the human race. Besides, we already created superior beings in our imagination, they just don't physically exist yet, and look at the kind of segregation it causes across the world.
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Old 2009-08-23, 07:02   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
^ Because that "something better" might consider our extinction, just as we consider the extinction of mosquitoes? Humans are most damaging towards the environment after all~
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
@ C.A - Creating a superior being will spell our demise because it just simply puts us down the food chain and further dividing the human race. Besides, we already created superior beings in our imagination, they just don't physically exist yet, and look at the kind of segregation it causes across the world.
That's not necessarily so, if such a thing was always true, then why inferior living beings still live in our world? There's no doubt that we are by far more evoluted than an amoeba but amoeba still exist and so do bacteria.

Such a reasoning work for species that fight in the same environment for attaining limited resources. It is more of a chain food problem. However what kind of chain food a robot would be part of?

But I guess you could transpose this problem into an economical issue. So if a superior artificial species was created they would monopolize the energy resources, thus preventing humanity for further progress.
This however might not happen to be necessarily true. Since we are talking of something that will happen in the far future, we cannot know for sure what kind of technologies will be available by then. In fact, if the gates for space travel will be opened, then the "environment" issue will become completely trivial.


As for the possibility of reproducting a replica of a human brain: In theory it is possible. In practice it all depends on how much our technology will advance. It is almost impossible to predict this. However this is certainly more feasible than a time machine or teleport device. (actually the technology of a teleport device would aslo allow cloning).
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Old 2009-08-23, 07:57   Link #18
C.A.
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Originally Posted by jonli View Post
One of them is about the evolution of mankind. The speaker believes that mankind's next step to evolution is not natural, instead our intelligence is what's going to make the next move for us. He believes that we're going for the cyborg route, where humans are going to get increasingly more and more "artificial" but at the same time organic. The idea isn't Ghost in the Shell like, but more along the lines of Blame. Where artificial organisms have evolved to such a degree that they're indistinguishable between natural organisms.

He coined the new race of humans "Homo Evolutis". Interesting stuff.
This is the exact point I'm making.

In fact scientists are already working on it.

In various documentaries, 'Next World' for example, tells us of futuristic technologies, some even more fantastic than science fiction are already in the process of development.

And the 'next step' in human evolution is already taking place.

Scientists have worked on implants for some time, but now implants that allow humans to interact with computers, machines and even the internet wireless is already a reality. Scientists believe that in less than 50 years, you can literally upload your entire brain into a computer or download all sorts of data into your brain.

And when robotics, cybernetics and other mechanical advancements catch up, you can upload your mind into a mechanical body and live without aging. And when nanotechnology, claytonics and other advanced nanomaterial technologies become common place, robots and humans will look and function exactly the same and everyone would be a robot.

'Humans' will become 'robots', with quantum computers millions of times more powerful than the human brain. Actually you may not even need a body, you're going to exist as an 'electronic' or 'quantum being'. As long as you have your consciousness in data format, you will live.

Imagine yourself as a data being, you can 'travel' between planets, solar systems and even galaxies at the speed of light. You just have to send your data to your destination and you'll be 'flying' there at the speed of light. You can own several 'avatars', your physical robotic bodies made of indestructible nanomachines. All of them are you and you'll be existing in multiple places in the universe.

So why keep a human body when humans can advance to the next level? When our brains can no longer keep up with the data flow, upgrade yourself by uploading your consciousness into a quantum computer. With humanity's processing speed exponentially increased, technological advances will exponentially increase as well.
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Old 2009-08-23, 08:20   Link #19
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Whoa I think there is way too much optimism in such predictions. 50 years? That reminds me of when in the sixties they believe we would travel on space by the end of the past millennium.

Frankly I'm not expecting such a thing to happen in the next 500 years. To get to such a degree as uploading your whole consciousness into a computer we have yet thousands of obstacles to overcome. The complexity of the human brain cannot be expressed by the current technology. As much as incredible the nowadays computer may seem, they merely get to the level of an ant brain.

scientific documetaries tend to greatly exaggerate the new technologies. For instance they can claim teleports will become soon a reality only because a photon was teleported, completely ignoring that such a thing is immensely trivial compared to the deconstruction and reconstruction of an object (and even more true for an incredibly complex object like a human body).

The exponential increase of technology you theorize doesn't take in account the many barriers that exist in such path. So even if we can get fast on our progress at a certain time, we will most likely get to an halt at many points.
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Old 2009-08-23, 08:33   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
This is the exact point I'm making.

In fact scientists are already working on it.

In various documentaries, 'Next World' for example, tells us of futuristic technologies, some even more fantastic than science fiction are already in the process of development.

And the 'next step' in human evolution is already taking place.

Scientists have worked on implants for some time, but now implants that allow humans to interact with computers, machines and even the internet wireless is already a reality. Scientists believe that in less than 50 years, you can literally upload your entire brain into a computer or download all sorts of data into your brain.

And when robotics, cybernetics and other mechanical advancements catch up, you can upload your mind into a mechanical body and live without aging. And when nanotechnology, claytonics and other advanced nanomaterial technologies become common place, robots and humans will look and function exactly the same and everyone would be a robot.

'Humans' will become 'robots', with quantum computers millions of times more powerful than the human brain. Actually you may not even need a body, you're going to exist as an 'electronic' or 'quantum being'. As long as you have your consciousness in data format, you will live.

Imagine yourself as a data being, you can 'travel' between planets, solar systems and even galaxies at the speed of light. You just have to send your data to your destination and you'll be 'flying' there at the speed of light. You can own several 'avatars', your physical robotic bodies made of indestructible nanomachines. All of them are you and you'll be existing in multiple places in the universe.

So why keep a human body when humans can advance to the next level? When our brains can no longer keep up with the data flow, upgrade yourself by uploading your consciousness into a quantum computer. With humanity's processing speed exponentially increased, technological advances will exponentially increase as well.
Because if that were to happen, we wouldn't be human anymore, we would never be the same as we ware. All of that sounds exciting but being able to do all of that without putting in any kind of effort would make it meaningless. Being able to live forever as a machine, baing able to live in multiple places at the same time for all eternity, doing whatever you want to do simply because you can kills the feeling of achievement. Being able to do all those things seems exciting to me at first, but by the end of the day, what's the point when you can potentially do it forever? I prefer to stay 100% human, thank you

As for the question in the OP itself, if the robot is able to think and feel like a human, I guess you could consider it human by all means. However, there are bound to be those people who would deem the human as nothing more than a machine regardless and treat the robot as just an object that can be done away with in a short time. This can be another form of racism.
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