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Old 2009-08-24, 05:29   Link #41
stubby42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Robots already exist but the probability that such robots will rebel against human is zero
But they've already been rebeling, on several occassions people have bought sat nav's that have led them onto train tracks just in time for them to be hit by a train, and then theres been atleast one case of a robot in a factory killing people.











Also you should probably take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt, I dont atcually believe the robots ar rebelling.
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Old 2009-08-24, 05:37   Link #42
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The first thing you should say to a rebelling robot is : "You are suppose to listen to me! What the **** are you doing?"

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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
^ and human vegetables should be treated as plants?
No. Rotten plants can only be used as compost, while human vegetables can be turned into food. Think of the hunger and famine it can rid of!

And regarding fantabulous happenings.....it is called a miracle because it doesn't happen. If it did, it would be called an event.
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Old 2009-08-24, 05:45   Link #43
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
And regarding fantabulous happenings.....it is called a miracle because it doesn't happen. If it did, it would be called an event.
*cough cough*.. be sure to investigate your own vocabulary prowess before enlightening others. With that in mind, i shall enlighten you :P.
Miracle - a marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of a divine agent
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Old 2009-08-24, 05:58   Link #44
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I'm pretty sure using electricity to revive someone in the Biblical times counts as a miracle to those parts. As does using a Star Trek food replicator to multiply a few fish and loafs of bread. Still, a miracle or magic or whatever are all possible. Anything you can imagine is possible actually. Maybe too costly or with bad utilization but still nothing is impossible.

So, yes, it is possible to manifacture humans (whatever that means).
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:01   Link #45
Cipher
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
I'm pretty sure using electricity to revive someone in the Biblical times counts as a miracle to those parts. As does using a Star Trek food replicator to multiply a few fish and loafs of bread. Still, a miracle or magic or whatever are all possible. Anything you can imagine is possible actually. Maybe too costly or with bad utilization but still nothing is impossible.

So, yes, it is possible to manifacture humans (whatever that means).
so you're saying that the possibility of me attaining the level of a God's supernatural might exists? (and please care not to discuss the essence of reality for its confusion bewilders and saddens me)
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:05   Link #46
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^ with enough knowledge, money, time and willpower, you can do anything you want.

Of course, we still don't know shit about the universe, most of the money is spent on making wars and feeding the poor, most of our time is spent on sleeping, working for a living and playing games, and we get easlily pesimistic when nobody seems to give a shit about our efforts and just wants to abuse us for his gain.

Still, it is possible...

After all, progress is practicaly the result of the work performed by billions of people for thousands of years.
Destruction is the same but it takes a lot less time and work (sadly).
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:13   Link #47
Cipher
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
^ with enough knowledge, money, time and willpower, you can do anything you want.

Of course, we still don't know shit about the universe, most of the money is spent on making wars and feeding the poor, most of our time is spent on sleeping, working for a living and playing games, and we get easlily pesimistic when nobody seems to give a shit about our efforts and just wants to abuse us for his gain.

Still, it is possible...

After all, progress is practicaly the result of the work performed by billions of people for thousands of years.
Destruction is the same but it takes a lot less time and work (sadly).
*sigh* that possibility of everything being possible makes me see dim light within the universe's future. Just think of all the extreme negative possibilities ?
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:22   Link #48
oompa loompa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
And what did I say? It's the human failure any way you look at it. Anyway the matrix doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

As for the rare earth hypothesis, I believe it is probably true that the conditions that allowed life to exist can be compared to winning a lottery. But what is this chance? One on a quadrillion? Even if it is it would still be far from making earth an "unique" case. This universe is huge beyond any human comprehension, and probably we are just seeing a fragment of it. Even if earth is the only planet in the whole galaxy (and we are talking about 200 billions to 400 billions of stars) from which life emerged, there is still another 200 billion or so of other galaxies.
Oh I don't disagree with you at all. The Rare Earth Hypothesis is called that Rare Earth Hypothesis, and not the Unique Earth Hypothesis . The more I read about it the more I see that it's pretty miraculous that earth sustains life, but as miraculous as it seems I'm completely inclined to say that it isn't unique. I was merely saying, hypothetically speaking, if the earth is unique, does that have any implication on there being more to consciousness and the supposed concept of the "self" that humans have?
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:23   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
*sigh* that possibility of everything being possible makes me see dim light within the universe's future. Just think of all the extreme negative possibilities ?
Hey, undoing something is way easier than doing something. This is why creation is rare and more valuable than destruction.

Those movie villains don't get it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
Oh I don't disagree with you at all. The Rare Earth Hypothesis is called that Rare Earth Hypothesis, and not the Unique Earth Hypothesis . The more I read about it the more I see that it's pretty miraculous that earth sustains life, but as miraculous as it seems I'm completely inclined to say that it isn't unique. I was merely saying, hypothetically speaking, if the earth is unique, does that have any implication on there being more to consciousness and the supposed concept of the "self" that humans have?
What if Earth is indeed unique but there are a trillion other planets with better overal enviroment than it? Possibilities work both ways.
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:26   Link #50
Cipher
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Hey, undoing something is way easier than doing something. This is why creation is rare and more valuable than destruction.

Those movie villains don't get it...


What if Earth is indeed unique but there are a trillion other planets with better overal enviroment than it? Possibilities work both ways.
AHAHA.. you gave me a good idea... what about the possibility of "everything is possible" impossibility? A bit ironic and contradicting don't you think? As you've said, possibilities goes both ways.
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:36   Link #51
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^ Oh, you mean something like the theory of irrelativity. I have thought about it and no, it is impossible for something to be impossible. It all comes down to that silly riddle with God's infinite power.

If God can do anything, can he create a rock not even he can lift?

And the answer is actually pretty simple.
Spoiler for the aswer to the riddle:
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:44   Link #52
Cipher
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
^ Oh, you mean something like the theory of irrelativity. I have thought about it and no, it is impossible for something to be impossible. It all comes down to that silly riddle with God's infinite power.

If God can do anything, can he create a rock not even he can lift?

And the answer is actually pretty simple.
Spoiler for the aswer to the riddle:
I'm no physicist or some philosophical nutjob or even slightly knowledgeable to know things such as "theories of irrelativity" so excuse me but here's my opinion.

"If it is impossible for something to be impossible. Then there is an impossibility. Therefore, evidently speaking, not all is possible."
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Old 2009-08-24, 07:02   Link #53
oompa loompa
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
What if Earth is indeed unique but there are a trillion other planets with better overal enviroment than it? Possibilities work both ways.
my man, you completely missed the point of my post , I clearly said that that's why it's called the Rare Earth Hypothesis, and what I was saying was completely hypothetical - Unless of course, you intentionally answered my question with your hypothesis which doesn't do either of us much good
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Old 2009-08-24, 07:11   Link #54
Cipher
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Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
my man, you completely missed the point of my post , I clearly said that that's why it's called the Rare Earth Hypothesis, and what I was saying was completely hypothetical - Unless of course, you intentionally answered my question with your hypothesis which doesn't do either of us much good
No offense but I find those types of Unevident Hypothesis apparently meaningless to discuss.
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Old 2009-08-24, 07:17   Link #55
oompa loompa
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
No offense but I find those types of Unevident Hypothesis apparently meaningless to discuss.
And achieving some form of immortality by having a body that transcends space and time isn't? Achieving it by transferring your body to a computer isn't either? No, I don't think so. In fact, the debate on what makes a 'human' is fairly central to this discussion. That debate includes (perhaps not significantly) what consciousness really implies.

The hypothesis has little to with the question anyways, are there any implications of a 'self' beyond simply the biological body? What is consciousness, and how it sets us apart etc. etc. and in what situation would the answer to these questions be more apparent.

And for the record, why is there nothing to discuss either? I was just asking what the implications of said hypothesis would be, not proving it this way or that. Frankly, for all practical purposes , much of the discussion that has gone on here is likely to be just as pointless - we may not even see any significant steps taken in this direction in our lifetimes.

Well, if you look around this forum itself you'll find plenty of threads which discuss things that will never happen - should all of them be deleted too? Just because something isn't going to happen doesn't mean it isn't interesting to think about how things would be if they did. I hardly think this thread is to unravel the mysteries of transferring brains or understanding consciousness, its more to discuss what your ideas of that would be. Sure, it may be very unlikely, but so is a lot of what is suggested.
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Old 2009-08-24, 07:35   Link #56
Cipher
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Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
And achieving some form of immortality by having a body that transcends space and time isn't?
If you want my opinion (regarding the idea not the question), I'd simply say its not possible. Science has its limits and so does reality. Not everything is possible.

Quote:
Achieving it by transferring your body to a computer isn't either?
It's not possible. Time is my evidence(clearly illogical I know)

Quote:
No, I don't think so. In fact, the debate on what makes a 'human' is fairly central to this discussion. That debate includes (perhaps not significantly) what consciousness really implies.
Yes well...I didn't really understand your point so forgive my ignorant accusation. If consciousness versus universal complexity is your topic, then that's worth the discussion.(not really sure if it'll get us anywhere)

Quote:
The hypothesis has little to with the question anyways, are there any implications of a 'self' beyond simply the biological body? What is consciousness, and how it sets us apart etc. etc. and in what situation would the answer to these questions be more apparent.
Death could probably answer those questions with evidence. You could also try religion but their clearly more symbolical and lack scientifical explanations.

Quote:
And for the record, why is there nothing to discuss either? I was just asking what the implications of said hypothesis would be, not proving it this way or that. Frankly, for all practical purposes , much of the discussion that has gone on here is likely to be just as pointless - we may not even see any significant steps taken in this direction in our lifetimes.

Well, if you look around this forum itself you'll find plenty of threads which discuss things that will never happen - should all of them be deleted too? Just because something isn't going to happen doesn't mean it isn't interesting to think about how things would be if they did. I hardly think this thread is to unravel the mysteries of transferring brains or understanding consciousness, its more to discuss what your ideas of that would be. Sure, it may be very unlikely, but so is a lot of what is suggested.
My apologies. I jumped the gun and didn't read your earlier posts. Please do share your questions and analysis and we'll try what we humanely can.
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Old 2009-08-24, 07:49   Link #57
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@ Cipher, science does has limits, but clearly you do not know these limits and time hasn't provided any form of 'evidence'.

Like you've admitted yourself as not being a scientific person, you're scientific ignorance does not substantiate your opinions, it applies all all past scientific discussions from you.

And you mention 'unevident hypothesis', then why were you talking about god in this scientific thread?
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Old 2009-08-24, 08:02   Link #58
Cipher
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
@ Cipher, science does has limits, but clearly you do not know these limits and time hasn't provided any form of 'evidence'.
I don't exactly know all of science's limits but I have a general idea of it---can't say this is proven though.( with discussion like these, i can only rely on my foundations). Time hasn't but it will. Trust me. (faith has its uses too)

Quote:
Like you've admitted yourself as not being a scientific person, you're scientific ignorance does not substantiate your opinions, it applies all all past scientific discussions from you.
Just to clarify, I didn't say I wasn't a "scientific person"---that's if you mean someone who doesn't believe in science. I wouldn't be joining forums if i was scared of electricity or computer technology. Science is obviously useful when discussing more "tangible" ideas but it isn't currently very applicable.
Quote:
And you mention 'unevident hypothesis', then why were you talking about god in this scientific thread?
I used "God" as an example to question someone's beliefs. But if people are talking about something like "Rare Earth Hypothesis"--something perhaps scientifically possible to disprove or to approve, The thought just lessens and discussions tend to boringly end with "It's true" and "It's not true" statements. Please understand that I'm not here to ridicule people. My ability to question is just part of my humanity.
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Old 2009-08-24, 08:21   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
I don't exactly know all of science's limits but I have a general idea of it---can't say this is proven though.( with discussion like these, i can only rely on my foundations). Time hasn't but it will. Trust me. (faith has its uses too)

Just to clarify, I didn't say I wasn't a "scientific person"---that's if you mean someone who doesn't believe in science. I wouldn't be joining forums if i was scared of electricity or computer technology. Science is obviously useful when discussing more "tangible" ideas but it isn't currently very applicable.

I used "God" as an example to question someone's beliefs. But if people are talking about something like "Rare Earth Hypothesis"--something perhaps scientifically possible to disprove or to approve, The thought just lessens and discussions tend to boringly end with "It's true" and "It's not true" statements. Please understand that I'm not here to ridicule people. My ability to question is just part of my humanity.
What time has proven is that most things that were once thought impossible had already became reality.

A person who eats doesn't mean he knows how to cook, you may use science, but you may not be scientifically knowledgeable. A scientific person is someone who has a great interest in science or has a good knowledge on science.

I don't know how hypotheses can lead to boring true or not true conclusions.
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Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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Old 2009-08-24, 08:36   Link #60
Cipher
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
What time has proven is that most things that were once thought impossible had already became reality.
True but that doesn't necessarily disprove the idea that some things are unachievable.

Quote:
A person who eats doesn't mean he knows how to cook, you may use science, but you may not be scientifically knowledgeable. A scientific person is someone who has a great interest in science or has a good knowledge on science.
Science is not that difficult to understand. Depending on the branch of science, an individual only needs to adjust and adapt to the "system" of the science of our world. Remember where science came from? Simple questions that leads to observations and then further in-depth analyzations. I haven't really encountered any discussions(here) that requires me to research some science facts. I do have my high school biology, chemistry, and physics on my belt---no matter how inferior it may seem.
Quote:
I don't know how hypotheses can lead to boring true or not true conclusions.
I didn't say ALL hypothesis'. I was concentrating on that "rare earth hypothesis". If you think you can come with explanations or opinions regarding that matter, then please exercise it.
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