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Old 2012-03-25, 09:59   Link #1301
duotiga
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on the site note, episode 2 is up on gundam.info in youtube for those who wants to rewatch again
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Old 2012-03-25, 12:53   Link #1302
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam View Post
Like I said before, who other than the Zabis can hold the banner for Spacenoid independence? In the One Year War, there was no alternative power. To the Spacenoids, probably, it's not a matter of dictatorship or not, authoritarian rule or democracy, but a matter of worlds of being ruled under people that don't understand space, and people who can empathise with their sufferings.
The Zeon didn't really seem to show much empathy towards the suffering Spacenoids suffered that derived from the effects of Nerve gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam View Post
And if the Spacenoids so yearn for democracy, they should realise that despite Zeon's streak of authoritarianism, they can use democracy to topple the Zabis after their victory.

I want to repeat: this is my opinion, it doesn't reflect the views of all, most, some or even one Spacenoid.
Wait.

So your opinion is that after the Zabi family demonstrated the capability and willingness to kill four billion people with weapons of mass destruction...is that the most prudent thing to do is oppose them peacefully and democratically after they've won?


That...makes my head hurt. Wouldn't it be...less suicidal to democratically oppose the group that DOESN'T have a track record for gassing half of humanity to death?
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You probably don't know what happened before the rise of Zeon Zum Deikun. Basically, the Federation were shipping the lower echelon of society into space, giving them no representation, crushing any dissent with military force, etc. Under the Zabis they at least had a sense of getting any sort of true representation (even if it was a farce); under the Federation, they were truly just colonies being exploited.
I'm very much aware that the Federation are hardly shining paragons and that the Space colonists have plenty of reason to be ambivalent towards the Federation.

But this is still skirting around the issue that Spacenoids probably aren't going to be very thrilled at ZEon killing billions of them with WMD's.
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
This isn't as morally unambiguous as World War II, this is basically a conflict between two extremely bad alternatives.
I'm not sure how living under earth based hegemony is as bad as an alternative as four billion people getting nerve gassed by the very people claiming to liberate them.
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Old 2012-03-25, 21:14   Link #1303
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I'm not sure how living under earth based hegemony is as bad as an alternative as four billion people getting nerve gassed by the very people claiming to liberate them.
You forgot one thing: It was the non-Zeon Sides that were sacrificed. Almost all Zeon movements originated from Side 3, and with only a few Sides surviving the One Week War, the deaths were of little to no consideration among the Side 3 Spacenoids that still advocated independence. For all the Side 3 Spacenoids cared, all other Sides were nothing in any calculations, comparable to the so-called Untermenschen if we use a World War II analogy. This is how there were still all the various movements for the two decades since the end of the One Year War.

BTW, it was 2.8 billion killed from Side 1, 2, and 4, significantly due to direct conflicts rather than the gassing. The other billions were those from Operation British.
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Old 2012-03-26, 06:09   Link #1304
RES-01 Perses Gundam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
The Zeon didn't really seem to show much empathy towards the suffering Spacenoids suffered that derived from the effects of Nerve gas.

Wait.

So your opinion is that after the Zabi family demonstrated the capability and willingness to kill four billion people with weapons of mass destruction...is that the most prudent thing to do is oppose them peacefully and democratically after they've won?


That...makes my head hurt. Wouldn't it be...less suicidal to democratically oppose the group that DOESN'T have a track record for gassing half of humanity to death?
I'm very much aware that the Federation are hardly shining paragons and that the Space colonists have plenty of reason to be ambivalent towards the Federation.

But this is still skirting around the issue that Spacenoids probably aren't going to be very thrilled at ZEon killing billions of them with WMD's.
I'm not sure how living under earth based hegemony is as bad as an alternative as four billion people getting nerve gassed by the very people claiming to liberate them.
ARGH. IT'S LIKE THE DEBATE GETS NOWHERE IF EVERYTHING GETS BOGGED DOWN BY "FUCK, ZEON KILLED 4 BILLION PEOPLE. DAMN 4 BILLION. YOU KNOW 4 BILLION." Hey, must their badness be measured by the deaths they created? No. Because the Feddies ruined more lives (i.e. all Spacenoids) and damn, caused more pain than 4 billion people combined, and pain which doesn't result in death. Pew. Imagine people who don't die after being exposed to deadly radiation. ARGH. SORRY FOR TROLLING BUT SERIOUSLY, I KNOW NUMBERS ARE CRITICAL BUT.. FUCK.

Okay, this post is seriously gonna get deleted by mod.

I skirted? But you skirt the obvious truth of the Spacenoids' desire for independence, and the desire to release themselves from the crutches of the Feddies once and for all. The fact that Zeon rebellions kept popping up says something - the fury for freedom probably outweights everything.
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Old 2012-03-26, 23:13   Link #1305
casval cehack
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Originally Posted by duotiga View Post
on the site note, episode 2 is up on gundam.info in youtube for those who wants to rewatch again
Thanks. I'm rewatching them again to catch-up incase episode 5's events refer back to something.
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:04   Link #1306
bio9205
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Gundam Unicorn "special digest" for episodes 1 and 2 up on Youtube. No idea what its contents are, it's really long - about an hour. Watching it now. Hope there's some interesting tidbits inside.
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Old 2012-04-01, 09:54   Link #1307
Bashfulz
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and episode 3 is up on gundaminfo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To3ywQVOc9s

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Old 2012-04-05, 09:27   Link #1308
duotiga
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im guessing episode 4 wld be up before the launch of episode 5
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Old 2012-04-06, 12:42   Link #1309
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You forgot one thing: It was the non-Zeon Sides that were sacrificed. Almost all Zeon movements originated from Side 3, and with only a few Sides surviving the One Week War, the deaths were of little to no consideration among the Side 3 Spacenoids that still advocated independence. For all the Side 3 Spacenoids cared, all other Sides were nothing in any calculations, comparable to the so-called Untermenschen if we use a World War II analogy. This is how there were still all the various movements for the two decades since the end of the One Year War.
Hence why you'd think all the non-Zeon sides would want to keep Side 3 in a state of heavy military occupation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam View Post
I skirted? But you skirt the obvious truth of the Spacenoids' desire for independence, and the desire to release themselves from the crutches of the Feddies once and for all. The fact that Zeon rebellions kept popping up says something - the fury for freedom probably outweights everything.
I didn't skirt it. I questioned how realistic it was given the context of how terrified Spacenoids would probably be of Zeon.

Fear is the perfect tool for Authoritarian regimes. People who are scared become less concerned with principles like freedom and more interested in security and their safety. The only reason I bring up how many people died in the OYW up is because something that big WOULD have a major impact on peoples political beliefs. High minded political philosophy has to be balanced against practical concerns. Such as independence meaning that other sides would have their own armed forces that could be used against you.


And again. I'm simply mind boggled by the idea that you would try to use civil disobedience against people who were willing to gas entire colonies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You probably don't know what happened before the rise of Zeon Zum Deikun. Basically, the Federation were shipping the lower echelon of society into space
Though isn't that the exact same thing that Spacism advocates wanted to happen? Only on more complete scale?
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Old 2012-04-07, 09:05   Link #1310
RES-01 Perses Gundam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Fear is the perfect tool for Authoritarian regimes. People who are scared become less concerned with principles like freedom and more interested in security and their safety. The only reason I bring up how many people died in the OYW up is because something that big WOULD have a major impact on peoples political beliefs. High minded political philosophy has to be balanced against practical concerns. Such as independence meaning that other sides would have their own armed forces that could be used against you.

And again. I'm simply mind boggled by the idea that you would try to use civil disobedience against people who were willing to gas entire colonies.
I thought this debate ended long ago. Proven wrong.

The thing is, are there authoritarian regimes in times of war? When the whole country mobilises for war, the government assumes absolute powers, what is there to speak of domestic freedom, security? It is security and freedom against an agent of evil that is external in nature (i.e. the Federation). And once again, I want to emphasise that this is purely my own opinion, and because the debate got this far, I don't even remember the original issue anymore!
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:05   Link #1311
Bashfulz
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Originally Posted by duotiga View Post
im guessing episode 4 wld be up before the launch of episode 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBrqMVMmuJU

c'mon episode 5 be out soon!
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:31   Link #1312
teh_nubkilr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam View Post
I thought this debate ended long ago. Proven wrong.

The thing is, are there authoritarian regimes in times of war? When the whole country mobilises for war, the government assumes absolute powers, what is there to speak of domestic freedom, security? It is security and freedom against an agent of evil that is external in nature (i.e. the Federation). And once again, I want to emphasise that this is purely my own opinion, and because the debate got this far, I don't even remember the original issue anymore!
It's quite curious (and telling!) to observe people debating this material with the same passion as they might be defending their outlooks on actual historical events. Perhaps it goes to show that the material (while strictly fictional) has enough depth to permit such debate.

Back on topic, I'm curious to know what people think will likely happen in the fifth episode, besides the long-awaited battle between Unicorn and Banshee.
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Old 2012-04-07, 18:46   Link #1313
duotiga
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Originally Posted by Bashfulz View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBrqMVMmuJU

c'mon episode 5 be out soon!
Received the email notification from them . Be watching it again later . Thanks =]
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Old 2012-04-07, 20:48   Link #1314
duotiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_nubkilr View Post

Back on topic, I'm curious to know what people think will likely happen in the fifth episode, besides the long-awaited battle between Unicorn and Banshee.
Most probably wld be
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-04-08, 07:13   Link #1315
RES-01 Perses Gundam
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Originally Posted by duotiga View Post
Most probably wld be
Spoiler:
Yeah I think Marida's just a shell pilot for Banshee. She's just bringing it to Riddhe.
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Old 2012-04-09, 06:30   Link #1316
PzIVf3
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Spoiler for Latest screenshot:
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Old 2012-04-09, 07:45   Link #1317
teh_nubkilr
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Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Spoiler for Latest screenshot:
Are those from one of the production staff's machines, or your machine?
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Old 2012-04-09, 08:15   Link #1318
casval cehack
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Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Spoiler for Latest screenshot:
The Anksha units are looking good at this stage.
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Old 2012-04-09, 08:24   Link #1319
duotiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam View Post
Yeah I think Marida's just a shell pilot for Banshee. She's just bringing it to Riddhe.
Im thinking will they show Banagher saving Minerva Zabi or not since she's been held by Martha Vist
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Old 2012-04-09, 08:28   Link #1320
RES-01 Perses Gundam
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Originally Posted by duotiga View Post
Im thinking will they show Banagher saving Minerva Zabi or not since she's been held by Martha Vist
Would be more epic if Riddhe appears to stop Banagher. Love rivalry at its best!
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