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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 21 16.54%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 48 37.80%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 37 29.13%
7 out of 10 : Good 13 10.24%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 3.94%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.57%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.79%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-08-29, 17:09   Link #161
~Diru~
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It seems to have more than one variation but it isn't reallys harder with 3. (I solved it in a minute or so?)
I guess if you solved one of these it is easy it figure the other ones out
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Old 2009-08-29, 17:29   Link #162
Jan-Poo
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the one I knew in my childhood was even more different.

There's a man with a dog a chicken and a bag of grain. He needs to cross the river with a boat but he can only take one thing/animal with himself. The problem is if the dog is left alone with the chicken, it will eat the chicken, if the chicken is left alone with the grain it will eat the grain.

the difference in this case is that you have a food chain and the man is the only one who can move the boat. it isn't based on number ratio but on the presence of the man to avoid game over.
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Old 2009-08-29, 17:36   Link #163
miroku2192
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^isn't that rather simple? Take the human and bring the chicken over. Then go back and bring the bag of food. Take the chicken back with you and bring the dog over and leave it by the bag...then go get the chicken. I'd say it's a lot less complicated than the 3 wolves vs 3 sheep...
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Old 2009-08-29, 17:39   Link #164
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I remember something like this too, when you do this the first time it may be difficult unless you try to take something back.(1. chicken to the other side 2.back/dog to the other side 3.chicken back ect.)
Well it could make sense that one of the persons while all of them were in the parlor prevented the culprit to act due to its precense.
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Old 2009-08-29, 17:43   Link #165
Jan-Poo
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of course it is a riddle meant for first grade schoolers XD the 3 sheeps and 3 wolves is the more "complicated" relatively speaking, but the other 2 are kinda on the same level. the concept is the same, you just need to understand that something needs to be taken back on the starting shore after it had already crossed.
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Old 2009-08-29, 19:32   Link #166
Unentschieden
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Well to emulate Battlers turning the chessboard over: Why is Wolf-sheeppuzzle even referenced? It basically serves the same purpose as the 2nd Beatrice letter in the first game: to sow mistrust and seperate the survivors. This of course makes Rosa suspicious.
Itīs not about itīs accuracy but about itīs implications.
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Old 2009-08-29, 20:58   Link #167
jeroz
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The thing is, if there's only the 18 people on the island and no one else, it's plausible that you would suspect people among you.

I would've said that if Beatrice didn't place herself on the game board. The thing that worries me about Rosa's behaviour is how, throughout her argument, there seem to be lack of mentioning of the new guest on the island. Kind of weird since she is the first person to make contact. Maybe in her defence, Beatrice is nowhere to be found at the moment, so the main concern is to avoid the backstab from one of the accomplices/culprits.
That being said. The people that encountered uniform Beato are: Maria, Rosa, Genji, Kyrie(?), Shannon and Kanon. It's kind of like that "where's Kinzo" puzzle in the EP1. Funny how people are not overly concerned with Kinzo's safety, or maybe his door to the study is sturdy enough to ward off any attacks. Is it even possible that Kinzo gave his master key to Beatrice by any chance? He's got to have one doesn't he?

I would laugh myself to tears if they later found the body of "Beatrice" somewhere. Now that would be totally hilarious.
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Old 2009-08-29, 21:08   Link #168
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Beatrice said there's only 5 master keys but we don't know who all has them. We're under the assumption that the servants are carrying them but we can't prove that.
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Old 2009-08-29, 22:33   Link #169
orion
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Originally Posted by Unentschieden View Post
Well to emulate Battlers turning the chessboard over: Why is Wolf-sheeppuzzle even referenced? It basically serves the same purpose as the 2nd Beatrice letter in the first game: to sow mistrust and seperate the survivors. This of course makes Rosa suspicious.
Itīs not about itīs accuracy but about itīs implications.
They're also not searching for the gold which was suppose to stop the murders from occuring. Focused again on their own safety.
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Old 2009-08-30, 00:28   Link #170
Littledgn
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Well, in the last scene with the book, Maria is looking at 4 wolves, 4 sheep, and 1 sheep in the boat in the middle the last time they show the book, ya?
9 Total, which accounts for everyone still alive. 4 family members, 4 servants, and 1 doctor.
Think they are trying to make it obvious that there's 4 murderers? Or just a false lead?

Not only that, Rosa proves she's not a wolf by saying she hasn't shot everyone to death yet for the money.
But with her older brothers and sister dead, she's already on top of the food chain.
So she's not proving anything, ya? And besides, she's outnumbered by sheep most likely, according to her game.
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Old 2009-08-30, 08:24   Link #171
chounokoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
That being said. The people that encountered uniform Beato are: Maria, Rosa, Genji, Kyrie(?), Shannon and Kanon. It's kind of like that "where's Kinzo" puzzle in the EP1. Funny how people are not overly concerned with Kinzo's safety, or maybe his door to the study is sturdy enough to ward off any attacks. Is it even possible that Kinzo gave his master key to Beatrice by any chance? He's got to have one doesn't he?

I would laugh myself to tears if they later found the body of "Beatrice" somewhere. Now that would be totally hilarious.
I also found it highly suspicious of Rosa not to mention Beatrice being on the island to anyone anymore. At least this Beatrice was in the chapel with her and the victims of the first twilight, where she was aknowledged by all of them.
Maybe she has a good reason not to mention her anymore, but it is still weird how this Beatrice suddenly seems to have vanished from the gameboard in the most convenient moment.

Regarding Kinzo's condition, I think most people who believe in the witch on the island know of the magical seal on Kinzo's door, that we saw in episode 1-4.
Therefore if Beatrice is on the island, she should be unable to open the door by herself or without the help of someone outside her realm.
And even if not, the mechanism to Kinzo's room is elaborate enough to make someone unable to enter against the will of the person inside the study.
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Old 2009-08-30, 09:29   Link #172
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by MarthX View Post
Beatrice said there's only 5 master keys but we don't know who all has them. We're under the assumption that the servants are carrying them but we can't prove that.
However, if they don't have the master key they are suspicious. Why they don't say that they don't have the master key? If they have lost it somehow, by disclosing this fact they would automatically free themselves from suspicion.
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Old 2009-08-30, 09:44   Link #173
Antera Caramichael
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I don't remember well, but is there any Red Truth concerning Jessica's Key? Because here, we can only say it is hers because of the teddy bear, Genji don't try it on the door, and don't even go closer to check... what if someone had exchange it? In this case, the closed room is broken.
The fact itself that the room was closed is suspicious because it put the suspicion on the servants: Even them could tell that everyone would wanted to check Jessica statut with a murderer somewhere on the island, there was no reason to lock the door...
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:09   Link #174
ipernorris
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Who was that shinigami Kanon thingy? One of the two girls who were shown before as being Beatrice's servants?
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Old 2009-08-30, 11:19   Link #175
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I wonder... this is a complete mystery. It was never stated that the seven sister of purgatory can shapeshift in anything that isn't a stake or their humanoid form. However even the fantasy interpretation would make you think that that being isn't Kanon, Shannon certainly doesn't think so. In the novel this Kanon had "red eyes" and at that point of the story the only other characters with red eyes were the seven sisters. This could be a hint that that "dark kanon" is actually one of the seven sisters in disguise.
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Old 2009-08-30, 12:06   Link #176
TsundereCake
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I wonder... this is a complete mystery. It was never stated that the seven sister of purgatory can shapeshift in anything that isn't a stake or their humanoid form. However even the fantasy interpretation would make you think that that being isn't Kanon, Shannon certainly doesn't think so. In the novel this Kanon had "red eyes" and at that point of the story the only other characters with red eyes were the seven sisters. This could be a hint that that "dark kanon" is actually one of the seven sisters in disguise.
I always thought he was a goat.
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Old 2009-08-30, 12:07   Link #177
risingstar3110
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Still confused like heck whenever see Battler screaming there's no magic when a) there's bloody red words flying around him b) time is frozen right at those moments c) those who were dead were revived and be killed again by magic dagger girl, mythical goat furniture, and 1st class light saber...

Those killed the mystery elements of Umineko since the start of EP II (if comparing with how it was in ep I)

However, as i watched this episode, i developed a theory for that (i should write in 1st timer speculation thread but it relate to the events of this episodes more anyway). Well it's quite a wild guess. But some one please read to see if it's flaw somewhere (up to the point of this anime episode, of course)
Spoiler for Size mostly and maybe for those who haven't watched Higurashi:


It's a super wild guess. But if such thing is true, then all of the impossible things were presented could have a way around it
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Old 2009-08-30, 12:08   Link #178
~Diru~
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I always thought he was a goat.
Same here. I thought he transformed when Gohda pressed him against the Wall.
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Old 2009-08-30, 12:17   Link #179
Kitsu
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Yes, I think I remember that he turned into a goat.
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Old 2009-08-30, 12:29   Link #180
Tjfarmer
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The point that Battler is trying to make is that magic doesn't exist on the gameboard (i.e the Island), not that it doesn't exist in the Meta-world. Its really hard to explain, because I fear I'll go over board and possibly spoil the series or something....

I'm forgetting every line ever said in the anime, but I'm pretty sure by now Battler has said something along the lines of "I'll see through your tricks", which implies Beatrice is using meta-world tricks to show Meta-Battler magic on the island. What Beatrice is showing Meta-Battler =/= to what is really happening.

Of course this just leads to "What is the Meta-World and why can magic exists there but not on the island?"
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