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View Poll Results: Spice and Wolf II - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 12 21.43%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 44.64%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 21.43%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 8.93%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.79%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.79%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-09-16, 10:12   Link #1
White Manju Bun
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Spice and Wolf II - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

Welcome to the discussion thread for Spice and Wolf II, Episode 11.

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Old 2009-09-16, 12:21   Link #2
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Waiting for this episode.

Things are heating up.
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Old 2009-09-16, 13:42   Link #3
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I have a terrible feeling shit is going to hit the fan in this episode...
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Old 2009-09-16, 13:55   Link #4
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Originally Posted by Swine Flu View Post
I have a terrible feeling shit is going to hit the fan in this episode...
Yeah, over the next 2 episodes I wouldn't be surprised if we see another Horo-is-crying, Lawrence is badly injured moment.
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Old 2009-09-16, 17:28   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo View Post
Yeah, over the next 2 episodes I wouldn't be surprised if we see another Horo-is-crying, Lawrence is badly injured moment.
Horo's tears are what spices up every arc ;]

While I am certain Abe will end up betraying Lawrence and sailing away, I do not believe we will see any of it in this episode. I've got a hunch ep 11 will shock us with H-L relationship twist instead - a lover's quarrel comming up, without a doubt. The tension on Horo's side has been building up ever since the beginning of this arc, about time it discharges - Horo's being afraid of things dying down and poor Lawrence being too considerate, he will of course end up wounded more.
See my post in Ep10 discussion thread, page 2, for more elaborated justification of that prediction. ;]

Apart from that, a handful of loose ideas:
...the landowner's offer of giving the inn to Lawrence is but a trick, smoke for Abe's scheme. A good thing, as L. won't need to make the hard choice whether to abandon his newly-acquired asset to travel on with Horo.

...Abe might be primarily a sea/river merchant, perhaps an owner of a boat? Anyway, I do not believe her main focus were statues but fur-industry related goods.

...as result of opportunists hoarding all the quality fur and leaving half the city hanging dry, riot will break out with Renose being set ablaze. Perhaps it will give cover for Lawrence to rescue pawned Horo once he realizes he's been tricked.

Anyone care to make bets how much Horo will fetch as a luxury commodity? ;]
With let's say, acceptable deviation of 200 silver coins (let's assume they are refering to Trenni ones).

I will start off with.. 2700 silver coins.

Cheers,
~D~
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Old 2009-09-16, 20:12   Link #6
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Originally Posted by DreXav View Post
Horo's tears are what spices up every arc ;] [rest of comment snipped]
If the situation goes bad (which let's face it, it's doomed to), then I daresay her tears will probably be even more painful to her than usual. Once she realizes it was her selfishness that has caused Lawrence to lose everything (which let's face it, he's doomed to), I worry that a two things are likely to happen:
- Lawrence will have to plainly admit why he let it happen.
- Horo will be too scared to face Lawrence and will actually put serious distance between them somehow.

I do believe that Abe and Howard are simply planning to ditch Lawrence with the money, but do not really have the heart to crush Lawrence and Horo completely. They don't seem like mustache-twirling evil villains to me, just desperate to get out of town before your aforementioned riots break out. They might at least leave him the inn as collateral, like they said they would.

I do wonder what Lawrence's backup plan will be in the event that inn isn't feasible. He seemed rather confident about being ready. If he doesn't have one this time then he probably deserves to lose Horo. My guess would be a contract signing away everything he has, and since he is a member of a large guild such a gambit might just work without him having to personally deliver the coins by hand.

That leaves your bet.. it seems likely it will be at least whatever Lawrence has with him plus the inn/contract transferring all of his assets. What's the going price of an inn that size in those days? Just how much did Lawrence and Horo earn in their scheme with Amarti? I don't know the answer to either.

Ah, that's enough idle speculation. I hope I'm wrong with all of this and the author has me fooled completely
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Old 2009-09-16, 23:20   Link #7
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................Nothing that interested me enough to find something to comment...

Well, except:
I knew they were terrorists after all! They looked like ones! (Even though characters talk as if they looked like merchants...)
Anyways, let's see where this armed uprising goes..............................

At least the art wasn't collapsing here and there like last time... <--Eyes were glazed over though
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Old 2009-09-17, 01:31   Link #8
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Old 2009-09-17, 05:27   Link #9
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Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo View Post
Yeah, over the next 2 episodes I wouldn't be surprised if we see another Horo-is-crying, Lawrence is badly injured moment.
Actually it's one episode. Episode twelve in the last of the season.
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Old 2009-09-17, 08:23   Link #10
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Whoa that is a pretty big piece of shit to hit the fan. Didnt expect that huge of a plot twist. Out of nowhere a rebellion comes out...

If there is just 1 episode left, I doubt horo can be sold with such a big mess. Anyway 2000 silver for horo only?! She deserves a bit more at least. lol
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Old 2009-09-17, 09:14   Link #11
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^No question there, when I saw 2000 silvers I was like WHAT? Thats too little, even DreXav suggested 2700.
Instead of Lelouch of the Rebellion, we have Lawrence of the Rebellion...
Okay, bad jokes aside. The supposed last moments between Lawrence and Holo really felt heartbreaking, for Holo to be willing to give herself up for Lawrence like that, is something I'm still having difficulty in accepting. Until the rebellion occurs, of course, and I believe Rigolo is involved in it, one way or another.

EDIT: Ya I noticed it as well, and it looks like one of our friends is going to be in trouble big time.

Last edited by Sleep_ping; 2009-09-17 at 10:01.
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Old 2009-09-17, 09:40   Link #12
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Since the subs are out, I assume this doesn't need a spoiler tag...

SO, did anyone else notice Lawrence's surprise after he rubbed the statue of Mary and tasted the result? Pretty sure this means my theory that the "stone" statues are actually Salt, and that someone has been in on some smuggling is correct.

Not that it probably matters given what's about to go down. Would be interested in knowing if the contract for Horo has the standard "Warfare and Acts of God" clause to get out of finishing the deal...
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Old 2009-09-17, 10:09   Link #13
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Looks like all of Lawrence's nightmares have come true after all. But it was nice to see that he's still a top-notch merchant all the way to the end. He really outclassed everyone this episode. I just wonder if a rebellion crossed his mind, because they've been foreshadowing one the whole story arc.

The tail scene was cute. Wonder what he was thinking, but it confirms that she's afraid of getting intimate with him (explains why she's always drunk). I think he's done the right thing in avoiding getting closer to her. From what she just said she was going to leave him no matter what. Being less close saves them both a lot of heartache.

Regardless, this episode basically serves as a confirmation to me that Lawrence is finally going to confess his feelings to Horo this time (let's just hope he isn't penniless and half-dead). If Horo realizes that she loves Lawrence (and isn't just falling in love with him) I wonder if she will chase Abe down when betrays them and runs off with the gold/furs?

The meaning of the salt statue is still nicely vague (I guess it implies that she has ready access to a ship?), and I wonder what role the bartender girl plays in all of this. Can't wait to find out

Last edited by BashZeStampeedo; 2009-09-17 at 11:11.
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Old 2009-09-17, 10:51   Link #14
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Considering how there's only one episode left, and the not-so-promising sneak peak at the last episode (together with a title like that, sheesh), it's hard to imagine how there can possibly be a nice happy conclusion to this arc and season. I really hope they don't leave a cliffhanger at the end to be resolved in the third season (which might potentially be more than a year away).

Then again, they did that for Code Geass.. argh.
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Old 2009-09-17, 11:13   Link #15
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"Treasure your meeting."

Despite whatever reservations I have about Abe, this sentence rings with so much truth about Horo and Lawrence that it demands reflection, and given Horo's shocking revelation at the middle about her own feelings it seems to somehow completely sum up the very neture of the tension between both of them. There are times when she says she's afraid of those sweet and intimate moments between them, and back then in the first season I don't think I really understood what she meant. I think now I can relate to her feelings.

Why? Because all meetings end with partings. Abe called their meeting like the lines from cheap poetry, but cheap poetry given spirit becomes living epics.

And if this very fact that scares Horo completely isn't already drilled into our heads during the first few episodes of this season, now it's pretty much ingrained into our brains. Even though she's so used to people coming and going in her life, she's scared of the closeness between them because she knows that, as the cliche goes, it's harder to let go of the things closer to you. She never had a true emotional relationship like she's had with Lawrence the short time they were together. She accepted everything she did, all the good and the bad, the successes and the mistakes. She says she's used to being on the deathbed of someone else.

However, she's not used to saying goodbye. To Lawrence especially. And thusly, she fears that day they will part of painful terms. She says they should end it now, since Lawrence is now oh so close to reaching his dream of owning a shop.

But... I think we all know that perhaps, this isn't his dream anymore, is it?

As such, the entirety of their talk in the middle of the episode was painful to watch and listen to, in a good way of course. It felt like literal physiologic pain on my chest due to the sheer prophetic nature of their discussion. I guess I should be happy they had a funny argument after that because the scene was downright heavy like a rock.

Rigolo's nun assistant pretty much put it all into perspective for Lawrence. They similarly share a very simple yet very rewarding dream, only that Lawrence had yet to really admit it to himself. I think now he knows what his new dream is.

However, now that shit has met said fan, it all boils down to the final episode and how it all goes. The preview looks like it's going to leave me depressed for weeks. At the very least, they could make it awesome enough to make the unbeearable torture of waiting for season 3 a little easier to manage.
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Old 2009-09-17, 11:38   Link #16
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Don't worry. There's no chance that we will have a downer ending since the series has covered only up to the end of the fifth novel (there are twelve altogether).

Shit is going to hit the fan. Judging by what happens in the novels:

Spoiler for 12:


But it will all turn out ok. Loved this episode, and I'm anticipating the next.
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Old 2009-09-17, 11:47   Link #17
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
However, she's not used to saying goodbye. To Lawrence especially. And thusly, she fears that day they will part of painful terms. She says they should end it now, since Lawrence is now oh so close to reaching his dream of owning a shop.

But... I think we all know that perhaps, this isn't his dream anymore, is it?

Rigolo's nun assistant pretty much put it all into perspective for Lawrence. They similarly share a very simple yet very rewarding dream, only that Lawrence had yet to really admit it to himself. I think now he knows what his new dream is.
Until this episode, my feeling is that Lawrence has been trying to convince himself to ignore this "new dream". He knows how painful goodbye will be to him this time, and has been avoiding intimacy with Horo. He's clearly selfless enough to also have considered how hurt Horo will be, given that he seems to understand her far more readily than she understands him.

I think that you are right, because Horo has twice now implied that she's over being with him until he dies. Last episode when she claims she will be there for him until the end (which she reversed in this episode at first), and this time when she literally tells him that she's not worried about the difference in their lifespans anymore.

When Lawrence talked to the young nun, I think she distracted him from the "here and now" long enough to let him put two and two together. His "new dream" might actually be feasible now, since Horo's fears are more manageable than he thought they were. Knowing him he has probably decided to win his "most precious cargo" back at all costs.. and it will probably cost him a great deal as usual
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Old 2009-09-17, 11:51   Link #18
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Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Whoa that is a pretty big piece of shit to hit the fan. Didnt expect that huge of a plot twist. Out of nowhere a rebellion comes out...
The riot/rebellion was actually the most foreseeable turn of events in this arc. I just thought it would happen after Horo was actually secured for cash, not before.
It will be even more risky to proceed in this case.. and much more time pressing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo View Post
Regardless, this episode basically serves as a confirmation to me that Lawrence is finally going to confess his feelings to Horo this time (let's just hope he isn't penniless and half-dead). If Horo realizes that she loves Lawrence (and isn't just falling in love with him) I wonder if she will chase Abe down when betrays them and runs off with the gold/furs?
We anticipated Horo to throw a big, salty rock into their sweet, everyday water, but certainly I did not desire it to be in a manner of moody, teenish maiden that expresses the wish to break up out of blue. <sighs>
Considering the Amati-arc's mighty crisis turned out to be but a simple misunderstanding on oversensitive Lawrence's side, yet a pretense to forcibly level up thier relationship, this cliffhanger will most likely end the same way - them making up like it was nothing.

Quote:
Horo: ".. that is why, we shall part here now. Farewell--"

Lawrence forcibly grabs Horo's hand as she turns around.

Lawrence: "I do not wish to let go of this hand for I love you~~! That is why..*Geass activates* travel with me some more!"

+200 affectionpoints with Horo. *Da-ding* Level up!
Congratulations! You have became lovers with Horo!
Unless the animators want to leave us with heart hemorrhaging like Niagara Falls, they will have them make up like in the shabby inscenization above.
My prediction that the preview scene of Horo crying most likely take places after she drives Lawrence away with freshly obtained money so he can seal the fur deal, realizing herself how dear he is to her..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Anyway 2000 silver for horo only?! She deserves a bit more at least. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh_Ping View Post
^No question there, when I saw 2000 silvers I was like WHAT? Thats too little, even DreXav suggested 2700.
That is because the deal wasn't actually selling off Horo i.e as a slave or so but using her as mortgage, therefore they are offering much less than she's actually worth as a luxury commodity. To illustrate it with a real life example, to take, let's say, 250k credit from bank, you would have to put your house worth 700k as mortgage. Basically, the Derrink Company is loaning a huge amount of solid, cold cash to Lawerence with taking Horo as insurance that Lawrence pays them back. In case he doesn't, Horo's value is more than enough to compensate.
It seems Derrink Company has extensive intelligence network as they knew beforehand what's the deal's real purpose and who they are dealing with, giving the company an edge in negotiations - since the fur business at the moment is a somewhat risky one, even more the reason to lower the offered loan. The fact they won't be charging a handling fee is a huge plus here - that means they are lending Lawrence some considerable funds literally for free. Mortgaging Horo is but a temporary inconvenience if the plan goes through. *but we all know better than hope on that - Murphy's applies to all plans!*

For once, Lawrence's performance was truly outstanding during the first half of episode - myself I applaud him for crafty, smooth way of avoiding those many implications that would come with accepting the cash on spot, i.e having to leave Horo behind that instant and giving the company more time to find a buyer or other use for her. Not to mention giving Abe a chance to grab the money and flee because with the riot, her plan may not work out - and she's dying for cash.
Now, it seems the money and Horo will be exchanged at the same time they seal the fur deal, so it seems real all the more.

And makes me believe that is the moment when Lawrence will be left hanging >.>

~D~
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Old 2009-09-17, 12:09   Link #19
BashZeStampeedo
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We anticipated Horo to throw a big, salty rock into their sweet, everyday water, but certainly I did not desire it to be in a manner of moody, teenish maiden that expresses the wish to break up out of blue. <sighs>
Considering the Amati-arc's mighty crisis turned out to be but a simple misunderstanding on oversensitive Lawrence's side, yet a pretense to forcibly level up thier relationship, this cliffhanger will most likely end the same way - them making up like it was nothing.

~D~
Yeah, Horo is still being incredibly selfish. Couldn't she at least find a better time to dump Lawrence? Nah, just before everything can go desperately wrong is fine The only question remaining in my mind is just how ruinous the situation will be to reduce Horo to tears like in the teaser.

The only situation I can think of is what others have implied: that Horo will realize just how important Lawrence really is to her. I fully expect Lawrence to lose everything he has, end up in debt again, and get seriously hurt trying to win her back, then admit how he feels. I can't see her crying so painfully for anything less than that (this is Horo, after all).

But saying how he feels will certainly put him at a terrible disadvantage in their little games.. "Horo acquired new a taunt! 'Don't you still love me?'"
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Old 2009-09-17, 14:40   Link #20
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huh? only one more episode? i smell a cliffhanger...
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