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Old 2009-09-04, 03:44   Link #261
Ryuken
Claymore #01
 
 
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Well, depression can be countered by impression. So try to make an impression @G. But seriously if what said on the forum is really depressing then maybe it is time to take a break. I know that I had taken many of those. Staying away for more than a month was the longest run for me. But then again I always managed to claw my way back in. Sure as hell was difficult to go through all the missed posts but still it was worth it in the end. So chill ok.
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Old 2009-09-04, 04:20   Link #262
nane
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The question about Beth might come to if Alicia can control a "parasite Beth" like Beth can control her.

I wonder if they are defensive or offensive types.
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Old 2009-09-04, 04:22   Link #263
zato_1one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
Sigh,

Spoiler for chap 95 image:



Everyone could see this coming a mile away.
No. Everyone just know that Beth is a weak point. Heck, even Miria knew about that. But we don't how Beth will be handled. AFAIK, no one ever mentioned about this in previous chapter. We just anticipated the death of Riful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta View Post
Anyway, saying the usual intelligent conversation is absent is not really calling you stupid. You yourself saw, felt, what I was talking about with the feel of the conversation on here.
But you also have to accept that most of those intelligent conversation could be considered off-topic.

I notice that this thread is slower than usual. But that was also because this thread was created so late.
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Old 2009-09-04, 07:35   Link #264
MisterJB
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Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta View Post
I think you are wrong. Alicia slows down when Beth is being distracted. In fact, doesn't even Clare mention something about control in the previous chapter?
It's true that Alicia depends on Beth. Still, I don't remember being stated that Beth can make Alicia travell around at her will.



Quote:
You letting your dislike of a character cloud your judgement, I think. What Beth sees is Riful risking her life for Dauf . Riful is putting herself in a position where she is probably going to die trying to save the person she cares about, while she has the option to escape and let Dauf Die. Beth is forced to take a gamble. She knows she is going to die. She knows that Riful can't regenerate herself and help. It is possible that the best Beth can do is revert Alicia to a partially awakened state. If that is the case, then the org will never accept Alicia. Even if that is not the case, it is possible that the org won't accept Alicia and treat her pretty much how they treated Rafaela. It is less likely, because Alicia is probably emotionally retarded and the may not want to risk sending someone like that out into exile and it might be easier to just put her out of her misery. So Beth takes a gamble. She doesn't know if Riful will feel like she owes her something and return the favor. But it seems like the best course, and she already can see that Riful has some humanity. Anyway, she is lucky, because Riful is the most honorable AB we've have seen, based on what we've seen in the witches maw.
Once again, I disagree. We have no idea if Beth even saw Riful carrying Dauf around because of the wound in her stomach. Also, when Beth was stabbed, she had no idea that there would be parasites inside the spike. Beth knows that she is wounded however, without the parasites, that wouldn't be a fatal wound for a number 2/twin of a number 1.
So, my guess is that Beth tried to revert Alicia to human form so that they could retreat and Riful used that opportunity to ran away. Alicia, no longer fully controled by her sister, went after Riful to kill her. The AFs just happened to be in the way.

While it's true that Riful fulfills her promises, torturing Claymores until Awakening and killig them afterwards doesn't make her honorable, at all.



Quote:
Why do you want to see Dauf naked? Riful is very considerate of the viewer's feelings.
I don't wanna Dauf naked. I don't even want to see Riful naked, there is nothing there to see. What I would like is some consistency.
So, Riful is surrounded by Alicia and the AFs. She is getting mercilessly killed by Alicia and is wounded by Raciella's spikes.
She has the odds against her and, out of nowhere, she suddenly finds time to revert to human form, find clothes for her, find clothes for Dauf, dress herself, dress Dauf who can't move and run away, draggin him.
And Alicia or the AFs don't do anything while she is doing this. They just let her go.
Does that make sense to you?
Besides, what's the point of letting Dauf live? To have corny moments with Riful? Ok, we get it, they like each other. Now, kill him.
It would have been better if Riful saw Alicia landing in front of her (totally terrified BTW, what a wuss), turn around and witnessed Dauf being eaten by one Kitty. That could make Riful and Alicia join forces like many people want. (not me)
My hopes now lay on the thing that is coming out of Beth. That one migth be stronger than the others because of it's host.


Yagi must have a soft spot for Riful. She is the luckiest person in Claymore.
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Old 2009-09-04, 07:36   Link #265
irvinethearcher
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I think so far we have a few unsolved questions:
1. What happens when some spike "breads" near a huge yoki source?
As far as i understood it it will not posses the body but use the yoki of the source to develope
2. what is clare's huge mistake?
IMO seeking for vengeance instead of letting the past behind? Very obvious but despite that it could be true considering rafaella's desperate life which is similar to clare's, what rubel said that clare and rafaella would get arround good with each other IMO indicates that.
3. Perhaps not so important:
How could clare know when she was with cynthia and yuma that she had to see rafaella? Mere premonition or some kind of subconscious S.O.S beacon from Rafaella which could be sensed by those who could "see"?
4. Why did rafaella "choose" clare? She could have given her powers to renee as well when riful was away? Renee had more contact with the being but it did react only to clare's surface scan instead of renee's in depth scan.
5. Why did alicia help riful with the feeders?
6. Will alicia make now a soul link with beth letting her awaken to get somehow rid of that parasite?
7. Is riful out of yoki and can not regenerate her arm in human form anymore?
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Old 2009-09-04, 07:42   Link #266
Creangeru
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Most likely, she will simply be mindless and completely unpredictable. Without Beth, she can't turn back to human form; without Beth, Alicia can't really do anything, she'll succumb very easily into Awakening.

The fact that she killed the AE's is proof of that, she can't even distinguish her fellow "team members"anymore. She's become a new Miata, without a Clarice to hold her hand
More like a lack of breast to breastfeed her and make her succumb to her dark plans.
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Old 2009-09-04, 08:08   Link #267
Hypernova
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I wonder how much energy the spikes can suck from normal people. If it is enough to grow even a single kitty then we are looking at a full blown plague. If left unchecked the entire island will be over run within weeks or even days.
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Old 2009-09-04, 08:22   Link #268
clarakiss~
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*appears and twirls around happily* after clare and gang being surrounded by the thirteen kitties, this would've been the perfect entrance for isley by taking them out with his homing arrows that is if he escaped and surivived the abyssal feeders. ^^; abyssal, org and ghost better put their differences aside and team up to face a greater threat me thinks.
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Old 2009-09-04, 09:18   Link #269
Gangsta Spanksta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnet128 translation
Claymore 95
Incarnations of Destruction
en
+ posted by cnet128 as translation on Sep 4, 2009 14:12 | Go to Claymore

-> RTS Page for Claymore 95
Guidelines For Using My Translations

[TN: After returning from Japan, completing a hellish assignment (including losing about two hundred words in a crash and having to retype them from scratch), taking a breather and getting somewhat addicted to Tales of VS, I'm finally back and getting down to work on my backlog! Installment 8: two chapters of Claymore!]

1
[Side text: The fully-awakened Luciela-Rafaela merged being releases some kind of projectiles... which themselves are beginning to awaken......?!]
Helen: What the...? // What the hell is going on here...?!
Deneve: ...... // Ngh...
Clare: The real hell... // ...is just beginning...

2-3
Claymore
Scene 95: Incarnations of Destruction
[Insert text: Messengers of Hell... // ...attack]
Messengers: Gnhhaahh... // Ggh... / Ggh...

4
Helen: Whoa, whoa... you've gotta be kidding me!
Messengers: Ggh... // Ggh...
Helen: You're telling me every one of these things... / ...is an Awakened...?!
Deneve: Remove your cloak! // Ready your sword, Helen!

5
Helen: S... // So fast...
Deneve: HELEN!
Helen: Clare!

6
[no text just that's not going to be enough]

7
Clare: !! // Ngh...
Helen: This thing...!

8
Deneve: !
Helen: Deneve!
Deneve: Hmph.

9
Deneve: !
Messenger: Ghaaahh...

10
Deneve: Tch... // This damned... // ...monster...!
Messenger: Ghhaaah... / Hhahh...

11
Deneve: Dammit... // Too shallow...
Messenger: Ghhaahh... // Ggh... // Gnnhh...
Deneve: !!
Helen: Hahah! Gotcha! // Take that, you freak!

12
Helen: ! // Gahh...! // Ughh!
Clare: Helen! // !!

13
Deneve: Impossible! This thing... // Its head was blown clean off!
Helen: H - // Hold on a second - !
Deneve: Not good! You can't let it hit you! // Those things are parasitic!

14
Helen: Aahhh! // Aaaahhhh!
Deneve: Clare! // Helen!

15
Clare: *pant* // *pant* // *pant*
Helen: U... Ugh... it's a goddamn monster... // Just how tough is this thing?!
Deneve: Is it dead?
Helen: No... // Can't be sure.
Clare: These beings cannot be called living things in the first place.
Helen: !
Clare: They were expelled from that fusion of Rafaela and Luciela; mere fragments of the destroyer. // Once they have expended all of their energy fulfilling their destructive instincts, they will naturally cease to function... // ...but if they use their projectiles to obtain a new energy; - that is, attach to another living organism - then they can go on functioning indefinitely.

16
Deneve: Hmph. // Helen...
Helen: Y - Yeah... // Still, that really is incredible...
Deneve: I've released my youriki for the first time in seven years... // It feels almost as though my youki is constantly at its absolute maximum limit. // Now then, Clare. // Practically speaking, what do we have to do to defeat these things?
Clare: ! // They have no vital points. // However, they also have no real consciousness, and no concept of regeneration. / Remove their four limbs, and they will become immobile. // However, even without their limbs, they may well continue to fire projectiles as we just witnessed... // ...so the best plan is probably to simply slice them up as much as possible.

17
Helen: Ugh... // You make it sound so simple...
Messengers: Ggh... // Ggghh... // Gghh... // Ggnnhh...
Helen: Ugh... // This almost takes me back...
Deneve: Indeed. It really is... // ...just like back then.

18
Helen: Slicing every one of these things to pieces...? // You've gotta be kidding me... / C'mon...!
Deneve: It may be a difficult task, but we know they can be sliced. // We simply have to do so.

19
Rifl: *pant* // *pant* // *pant* // *pant* // *pant* // *pant*

20
Dauf: R... // Rifl... // D... Don't worry about me... // J... Just get away yourself... / At this rate we'll both get killed...
Rifl: Oh, be quiet. // If you say any more unnecessary things, I'll break up with you.
Dauf: I... I don't mind... // Just as long as you're alive...

21
Rifl: Once you're properly healed up... // I'm going to beat you up so badly we'll be right back where we started... // !
Feeders: Ggaahh...!

22
Rifl: Why, you...
Feeders: Khhhaaahhhh...!

23
Feeders: Ghhh... // Ghahh...

24
Rifl: *pant* // *pant* // *pant* // (I can't even grow back... // ...my missing left arm any more...)

25
Rifl: !
Feeders: Ggh... // Ghahhh... / Hhahh...
Rifl: You just don't stop coming, do you...? // How many of you are there, anyway?!
Feeders: Ggh... // Gghhh... // Ggh?

26
Feeders: !
Rifl: Wha - ?!
Feeders: !! // Ggh... // Ggahh...

27
Feeders: Ghhahhh... // Ggh?

28
Rifl: Tch... // What's wrong with you...? // Weren't you on their side...? // ! // You... // That's...

29
Beth: Ungh... // Aahh... // Aaghh...
Rifl: What's going on...? // Her Awakening is...
Beth: Unghh... // Ahh... // Unhh... // Ahhh...

30
Beth: Unghh... // Aahh... // Ahhh...

31
Beth: Ahh... // Aahh... // Aahh... // Aahh...
WorryingThing: Ghhaahh...
[Side text: Beth violated!! Something... is born?!]
Okay cnet128's translation is out.
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Old 2009-09-04, 09:20   Link #270
Sassarai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
No. Everyone just know that Beth is a weak point. Heck, even Miria knew about that. But we don't how Beth will be handled. AFAIK, no one ever mentioned about this in previous chapter. We just anticipated the death of Riful.
All the old school Claymore posters anticipated this type of thing happening to Beth years ago o_O. Close enough!
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Old 2009-09-04, 09:30   Link #271
irvinethearcher
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It was always clear that beth was the weakness and that she could loose control or get damaged during battle but in that way violated by one of the merged rafaella and luciella's spawns i could not really predict a year before.
IMO it should be clear that clare someday will somehow merge with teresa inside of her and become the twin goddess of love but how and when it will happen and what will happen exactly still stays unclear. IMO this is her inevitable destiny like judgment day in terminator.
Like in lord of the rings it was clear from the beginning that the ring will some day find it's way into the fires of amon amarth but how it will happen and that gollum was finally the one who destroyed his beloved precious because of his greed for it no one would have forseen.
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Old 2009-09-04, 09:31   Link #272
Fenrir_valindri
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An interesting chapter, I'm surprised to see the amount of complaining over Riful surviving, when regeneration partially depends on the amount of Yoki the user has, and not many beings in Claymore would have more then Riful. It isn't a surprise to me that Dauf survived either tbh, the wound that Jean gave him was just as bad, and he survived that as well.

Raciella's spawn are quite dangerous, but I wonder what exactly they are trying to achieve "infecting" people? We don't know exactly what will be born from the infection, but we may find out next chapter with Beth.

Edit: according to the translation, it seems that they use them as power sources to function indefinetly, that must make the one that hit Beth EXTREMELY dangerous, as it is leeching the Yoki of a powerful #1 level Claymore.

Speaking of Beth, she does have a chance of survival, albeit a low one.
For the record, Alicia/Beth do not have a "type" (Offensive/Defensive) they are listed as a "Special" type of warrior, thus we don't know how good their offensive/defensive traits are.

I am wondering if Alicia offed the Abyssal Feeders under Beth's control, or if she really is going berserk, it is hard to tell at this point. It would be quite interesting if Alicia wanted Riful to save her sister, and would add a humanity element to the twins that has been missing, although that has been on purpose).

Also, I am interested in seeing how Miria's group in Rabona, as well as Priscilla + Raki are going to react to these things.

On Clare/Deneve/Helen's end, that is looking like a pretty dangerous fight, even with all 3 going all out, it is grim when you are fighting an opponent that can infect you, and doesn't stop fighting till you have basically obliterated them.

Clare's offensive abilities give her an edge in that department, but even she would have a hard time fighting a group of these things.

On the other hand, Deneve's observation and demonstration of the ease of using her powerful abilities after releasing her Yoki after 7 years is pretty impressive, I wonder how powerful all the members of the Fab 4 are now with that in mind.
Although, with the Island descending into a chaotic hell, they need all the power they can get.
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Old 2009-09-04, 09:35   Link #273
Sassarai
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You think Alicia would be able to return back to unawakened form if Beth survives and does her thing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
It was always clear that beth was the weakness and that she could loose control or get damaged during battle but in that way violated by one of the merged rafaella and luciella's spawns i could not really predict a year before.
I predicted that years ago along with them all being on an island. I even drew a map of it.
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Old 2009-09-04, 09:43   Link #274
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
I predicted that years ago along with them all being on an island. I even drew a map of it.
Really? I mean, we have now chapter 95, two years ago we had chapter 71. That was when riful said that she had found something. And you predicted from this information alone and from the last pic with rafaella and luciella's hug that
1. They merged
2. They wanted to destroy the world
3. That beth was violated from their spawns

Respect!
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Old 2009-09-04, 09:51   Link #275
Fenrir_valindri
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You should go into the fortune telling business Sassarai, your powers of foresight are apparently on the level of a psychic.
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Old 2009-09-04, 10:06   Link #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJB View Post
It's true that Alicia depends on Beth. Still, I don't remember being stated that Beth can make Alicia travell around at her will.
Why would Alicia slow down when Beth is surprised?

Also, more supporting evidence:



Note the same facial expression on both Beth and Alicia?

Quote:
Once again, I disagree. We have no idea if Beth even saw Riful carrying Dauf around because of the wound in her stomach.
Beth can see through the eyes of Alicia.

Quote:
So, my guess is that Beth tried to revert Alicia to human form so that they could retreat and Riful used that opportunity to ran away. Alicia, no longer fully controled by her sister, went after Riful to kill her. The AFs just happened to be in the way.
Why would Beth revert Alicia to retreat? The concept isn't clear to me. If Alicia would've went after Riful to kill her, then Riful would've been dead.

Quote:
While it's true that Riful fulfills her promises, torturing Claymores until Awakening and killig them afterwards doesn't make her honorable, at all.
Oh yeah it does. We're not saying that Riful is kind, but she does have a strong sense of honor. Riful lacks a bit of morality, but honor is a different concept than morals.


Quote:
So, Riful is surrounded by Alicia and the AFs. She is getting mercilessly killed by Alicia and is wounded by Raciella's spikes.
She was never getting mercilessly killed by Alicia. Period. Alicia may have had the upper hand, for that part of the fight, but the fight had barely even started. That's like saying that Prissy was being mercilessly killed by Isley, and who ended up winning that fight? Now Riful did get massively wounded by Raciella, but then again so apparently did Beth. Riful was so wounded by Raciella's attack that she had to revert to human form and can't regenerate.

Quote:
She has the odds against her and, out of nowhere, she suddenly finds time to revert to human form, find clothes for her, find clothes for Dauf, dress herself, dress Dauf who can't move and run away, draggin him.
I thought that Abyssal Ones automatically reverted back to human form when they are at their lowest energy level. Riful can't even regenerate after the reversion. Finds time to revert to human form? How long does it take? I thought it was instantaneous. Alicia was already going after Raciella. The ZACS were confused and had been so ever since an intensive battle between Riful and Alicia was going one that could've killed them just trying to jump in. You make a bigger deal out of Dauf and Riful clothes than need be. Lets look.



They're wearing rags for heaven's sake. :P You made it sound like Riful had to take a long time to dress Dauf, but from the looks of it she just tied a rag around his hips. Also from what I recall the Japanese are a lot more uptight about showing male private parts than female private parts in a non-hentia. If we saw Dauf's thing, that could've possibly caused an uproar for a magazine like SQ. Also Riful's dress. We don't know if it is the original dress. It could be also a rag where she tore a hole for her head and two for her arms. Anyway, the amount of time you were implying it took for them to dress is surely exaggerated.


Quote:
And Alicia or the AFs don't do anything while she is doing this. They just let her go.
Does that make sense to you?
yup. it makes sense. Alicia and Beth were focused on Raciellla, but couldn't even manage to reach her before Beth got wounded. AF were confused by first the fight between Riful and Alicia and then the raining of spears. Then they stalked their pray in their usual slow walk until they get near speeds. I thought it was clear that ZACS moved like Zombies, and then suddenly burst into speed when near the target.

Quote:
Besides, what's the point of letting Dauf live? To have corny moments with Riful? Ok, we get it, they like each other. Now, kill him.
I've already mentioned a possibility earlier. Riful caring of Dauf is a possible reason for Beth taking a gamble of saving Riful so that she will possibly take care of her sister. It shows that Riful does have some humanity. That is not even to mention that Riful leaving Dauf by now would be out of character.
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Old 2009-09-04, 10:06   Link #277
irvinethearcher
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Yagi isn't really what you can call predictable. For me the whole thing about the war on the main continent was a surprise and his elegant aproach using the indestructibilty of the claymore as proof and eliminating one major flaw of the story at the same time with it was quite something. The merging of the sisters was a cool idea too. Claymore is the best thing i have ever read or watched.
And clare is my all time favourite character. Berserk is really good but claymore has surpassed it. I hope yagi can stay on this level until the end than it will become an epic masterpiece. Avatar,the last airbender was good too but yagi makes it all alone.
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Old 2009-09-04, 10:10   Link #278
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The reason I think the rods were homing onto youki sources is because the ease of which they hit Ritful and Dauf and the scenes in which we saw the rods land are always near claymore/ABs. It is pretty hard for a projectile moving at a straight line to hit a claymore or an AB with their superhuman speed and perception unless these rods travel at light speed or something ridiculous like that. Despite how tall Racilla is, I donít think she can see all the targets that she shot the rods at. Not to mention they are moving targets. So it is more likely she chose her target by sensing their youki. Since Priscilla is in a suppressed mode, the youki signature is likely very low. How well the rods home prob depends on how large the youki source is. The higher it is, the easier for it to home onto them. That can explain why rods will land next to Priscilla and Raki but hit Ritful and Dauff. Alicia is obviously actively dodging them while Beth was hit most likely because her attention is divided between focusing on Aliciaís evasion effort and dodging rods herself. Then there is the whole infection deal that seems to indicate the spawns feed off youki. The energy they are filled with is most likely youki and once used up, they die. But by infecting a source with youki pool, they can feed off the source. Thus, itís a logical step to say they are more attracted to larger sources of youki Ė Ritful, Dauf, Alicia etc.
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Old 2009-09-04, 10:16   Link #279
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
The reason I think the rods were homing onto youki sources is because the ease of which they hit Ritful and Dauf and the scenes in which we saw the rods land are always near claymore/ABs. It is pretty hard for a projectile moving at a straight line to hit a claymore or an AB with their superhuman speed and perception unless these rods travel at light speed or something ridiculous like that. Despite how tall Racilla is, I donít think she can see all the targets that she shot the rods at. Not to mention they are moving targets. So it is more likely she chose her target by sensing their youki. Since Priscilla is in a suppressed mode, the youki signature is likely very low. How well the rods home prob depends on how large the youki source is. The higher it is, the easier for it to home onto them. That can explain why rods will land next to Priscilla and Raki but hit Ritful and Dauff. Alicia is obviously actively dodging them while Beth was hit most likely because her attention is divided between focusing on Aliciaís evasion effort and dodging rods herself. Then there is the whole infection deal that seems to indicate the spawns feed off youki. The energy they are filled with is most likely youki and once used up, they die. But by infecting a source with youki pool, they can feed off the source. Thus, itís a logical step to say they are more attracted to larger sources of youki Ė Ritful, Dauf, Alicia etc.
It seems a good idea that those prjectile are yoki homing missiles to me. Raciella tries to wipe out all energy on the island and those cat's will continue to fight until the last human or yoki possessing being is sucked dry. I don't think that they can posses someone but i think they get stronger the more yoki they can suck off.
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Old 2009-09-04, 10:29   Link #280
SagaraSouske
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On the topic of Beth and Alicia, I donít think Beth controls Aliciaís actions. Itís more like she is suppressing Aliciaís awakened mind with soul link so Alicia can use her human mind to fight. Itís a constant process as long as Alicia is in an awakened form. Distracting Beth enough will cause her to slip in that suppression effort. Once that happens, it will cause a conflict between the awakened mind and human mind in Alicia for a very brief moment until Beth recovers Ė thus the slow downs.

What happened after Beth got hit by a rod is prob her failing at suppressing the awakened mind and slipping the control on the soul link, but not completely. I do think she tried to terminate the soul link and revert Alicia back to claymore when she realizes she cannot maintain the link when the rod started to infect her. But she didnít get a chance to finish that process. Thus we see Alicia being half awakened and half claymore in a release state (golden eye). She is kinda like Clare in QOB mode actually.
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