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View Poll Results: Spice and Wolf II - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 8 17.39%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 12 26.09%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 36.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 13.04%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 6.52%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-09-13, 02:39   Link #61
Kafriel
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^ Horo agrees because she wants Lawrence to know she trusts him, and Lawrence in turn agrees because it's a way of making money...and showing off his uber-merchant skills
Quote:
something unexpected derails their plan.
In other words, church. I wouldn't be surprised if Abe blackmailed Lawrence halfway through to regain the bishop's favour or something.
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Old 2009-09-13, 02:58   Link #62
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Man, Lawrence's counteract to Horo's jabbing sure is harsh.....Even I feel a bit angry to his statement. He shouldn't bad mouth to Horo like that.

Spoiler for For people who watch this ep and don't get what I'm implying.:
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Old 2009-09-13, 09:04   Link #63
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Man, Lawrence's counteract to Horo's jabbing sure is harsh.....Even I feel a bit angry to his statement. He shouldn't bad mouth to Horo like that.

Spoiler for For people who watch this ep and don't get what I'm implying.:
I didn't get that impression at all? It feels more to me that during that whole scene Lawrence is actually being sincere and that he's not trying to "win a game" or something. In a semi-pathetic way, he's telling her that he cares about her. He's comfortable enough around her now to be himself, a cold, rational, profit-driven businessman. Yet he isn't even charging her a boarding fee. From the look on her face, I'd say she's somewhere between happy and scared - all signs point to her hinging on him behaving like when they first met.

H: "Don't you think you're letting your nervousness show too much?"
L: "If I have to put on a show even inside the inn, when am I allowed to let my guard down?"
H: "When we first met, no, even until recently, no matter where we were, you were always putting on a show in front of me."
L: "It was my first time traveling with a woman after all. And I am getting used to it."
H: "Males slowly peel back their layers like this, until in the end all you can say is how it wasn't supposed to turn out this way."
L: "But when you get close to someone, it turns out like that no matter who it is, right?"
H: "That's like giving bait to a fish you've already caught, but would you do that?"
L: "I'd say you got onboard on your own, rather than being a 'caught fish', so that doesn't work. Rather than giving you bait, I should be charging a boarding fee."
(she appears stunned)
L: "What is it?"
H: "In short, don't forget your original feelings."
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Old 2009-09-13, 11:39   Link #64
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Oh, I know that BashZeStampeedo I was refering to Kafriel.
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Old 2009-09-13, 12:02   Link #65
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Oh, I know that BashZeStampeedo I was refering to Kafriel.
Oh, ok.. "thread timing fails" always get the better of me
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Old 2009-09-13, 18:41   Link #66
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I won't conclude that impressions I got is accurate from what author wanted to convey. However, I don't think talking to your close friend that you got onboard on your own and I should be charging fee won't make your friend feel any happier at all. That is not kindness but ignorant from being accustomed to each other in my point of view. It sounds as if "you fall for me on your own so you should be the one treating me instead". Well, Lawrence said as for jokes though but I doubt if he had enough guts to say this when they first met.
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Old 2009-09-13, 19:52   Link #67
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I won't conclude that impressions I got is accurate from what author wanted to convey. However, I don't think talking to your close friend that you got onboard on your own and I should be charging fee won't make your friend feel any happier at all. That is not kindness but ignorant from being accustomed to each other in my point of view. It sounds as if "you fall for me on your own so you should be the one treating me instead". Well, Lawrence said as for jokes though but I doubt if he had enough guts to say this when they first met.
I haven't read volume 5 of the light novels, and I also don't intend to put words in the author's mouth

However, I still think you are taking his words too literally. Why the double standard? Horo says some truly hurtful things to him in their little games, if you take them literally (and sometimes, even if you don't).

Based on their conversation (in the Mazui subs) I still think that he's jokingly taunting her. She tries to nudge him into a corner with her bait+fish analogy. If he said "yes" or "no" there, he would lose either way. And let's face it, who among us would expect him to come up with a good comeback?

However, he successfully turns it around on her for once. He reminds her that she's always been there of her own volition, and if she really isn't happy with their "situation" he could always start treating her as coldly as any other boarder (which is, of course, an empty threat).

I don't particularly think she looks "hurt" by that remark. It daresay it looks more like she's thinking "holy crap, you actually won this round, you bastard".
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Old 2009-09-14, 00:04   Link #68
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Woman has natural rights to be cunning but not for man. Lawrence may not realize it at first but he later foundout that he pissed off Horo and he understood what she was implying about bard's song. As I said, she didn't take it into account like suggesting to go back to Yoitsu alone in previous arc. That's kind of different feelinngs.
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Old 2009-09-14, 02:02   Link #69
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Woman has natural rights to be cunning but not for man. Lawrence may not realize it at first but he later foundout that he pissed off Horo and he understood what she was implying about bard's song. As I said, she didn't take it into account like suggesting to go back to Yoitsu alone in previous arc. That's kind of different feelinngs.
I see, so she really just wants a traveling companion that will fawn over her a bit, but not be in love with her? Hmm.. I guess maybe she should start being more plain and/or leave him, because she's been pushing him away the whole second half of the season and it isn't working very well.

And here I thought she just wanted him to say the magic words or otherwise remind her that he's scared of losing her.
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Old 2009-09-14, 04:14   Link #70
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It appears that my explanation didn't properly reach you. Allow me to fabricate this story based on how they think when they talk.

H: "Don't you think you're letting your nervousness show too much?" It's been a while since we first met but you still keep his act all this time.
L: "If I have to put on a show even inside the inn, when am I allowed to let my guard down?" Thinking about coming business...I don't think I'm nervous but if I seem that way in your eyes maybe I won't have time to be relaxed at all. (Seems like he got this as different topic.)
H: "When we first met, no, even until recently, no matter where we were, you were always putting on a show in front of me." You always keep wearing your mask even we've known each other for this long. I want to know to real you more. (Way to go Horo XD!)
L: "It was my first time traveling with a woman after all. And I am getting used to it." Sir, I'm inexperienced with woman so I'm trying to get along with woman at your standards. (Mehhh...he didn't catch that. Poor Horo)
H: "Males slowly peel back their layers like this, until in the end all you can say is how it wasn't supposed to turn out this way." Said Horo with little disappointment that he still treat her as woman who isn't lover. (As if he think she is in the first place.)
L: "But when you get close to someone, it turns out like that no matter who it is, right?" It appears she want to play teasing game with me again. I'll win this round.
H: "That's like giving bait to a fish you've already caught, but would you do that?" Will you still be kind to me eventough you already caught me? But simple bait won't be enough... (XDXDXD!)
L: "I'd say you got onboard on your own, rather than being a 'caught fish', so that doesn't work. Rather than giving you bait, I should be charging a boarding fee." See my trump card. I'll win this round with surprise attack.
H: (she appears stunned) <---No need to explain more when she expect something nice but got it backfired.
L: "What is it?" I taunted her too much? (Yes, you little cocky.)
H: "In short, don't forget your original feelings." Though I know it's your jab but I'm pissed by that.

In short, Horo expects Lawrence to bring up some kind of analogy that will keep his fish staying on board implying how he plan to keep Horo wanting to stay in his cargo. But Lawrence taunted Horo instead which cause opposite result. Horo expected Lawrence to say something like "Since putting bait on fish you don't plan to catch will not guarantee the result. I'll.....to keep boarding fish from escaping" from what I understand but maybe it may not actually turn out like this. Only Horo herself can answer this and I doubt if we could ask her about it.
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Old 2009-09-14, 07:38   Link #71
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A very good and very interesting episode. Lawrence and Horo relationship continues to evolve and from what I can see deepen. Even to the point on Horo starting she needs to rub her scent on Lawrence and saying a certain woman needs to be taught a lesson about territory. Woman are scary when they start getting protective on their territory. The bar scene was too funny and she was right why does it seem no girl is interested in you till they think you actually have a g/f the they start coming out of the word work. Lawrence blushing face was too funny but who could blame she was very attractive.

This is a very dangerous game and a very big gamble Lawrence is taking. Im not liking it not at all. I know why Horo agreed to it to show she trust Lawrence also she is no longer just a traveler her and Lawrence are partners in more than just profit. I found it interesting Horo stated that she would there to hold Lawrence even at his last breath also she finally admitted she is happiest traveling with Lawrence. I feel this is Horo's way of saying she wants to be with him for the rest of his days. I wouldnt use the word mate yet but they are a couple.

I think this time around Lawrence should have walked away and continued to head north where the church had less of a presence. This deal seems soooooooooooooo fishy. I would have cut and run somethings not right and i think Lawrence is going to end up betrayed have to go and save Horo but Horo ends up saving him.

Lawrence always chooses the riskiest ways to make money
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Old 2009-09-14, 07:48   Link #72
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Actually, it's Horo who insisted him to gamble this time.....I don't know if there's such business worth gambling his maiden out there though.
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Old 2009-09-14, 10:03   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Windows X View Post
It appears that my explanation didn't properly reach you. Allow me to fabricate this story based on how they think when they talk.
Spoiler:

In short, Horo expects Lawrence to bring up some kind of analogy that will keep his fish staying on board implying how he plan to keep Horo wanting to stay in his cargo. But Lawrence taunted Horo instead which cause opposite result. Horo expected Lawrence to say something like "Since putting bait on fish you don't plan to catch will not guarantee the result. I'll.....to keep boarding fish from escaping" from what I understand but maybe it may not actually turn out like this. Only Horo herself can answer this and I doubt if we could ask her about it.
I finally see your point (thanks for the cluebat attack). But now is not the time for subtlety, so she screwed up. Lawrence is thinking about a million other things right now. Besides, he's still waiting for her to answer his question: what do you want to do after we reach Yoitsu? (In volume 4 it is spelled out more clearly, in the anime she just brushes off the question while they are making up in Kumerson). If you are right, this is possibly the way the conversation went in Lawrence's mind (I'll know when the translations of volume 5 are done):

H: "Don't you think you're letting your nervousness show too much?" I see you are still being "defensive".
L: "If I have to put on a show even inside the inn, when am I allowed to let my guard down?" If you aren't going to help me plan things, the least you can do is lend me some emotional support (I really am nervous here).
H: "When we first met, no, even until recently, no matter where we were, you were always putting on a show in front of me." You've really come so far as to be that honest with me?
L: "It was my first time traveling with a woman after all. And I am getting used to it." Yes, I'm now comfortable enough around you to be that honest.
H: "When we'd just met, you'd get all edgy just from taking me around." Oh? You have come a long way.
L: "If I were to hang around with other women now, would your tail also get edgy?" What about you, can you be more honest about your feelings now?
H: "Males slowly peel back their layers like this, until in the end all you can say is how it wasn't supposed to turn out this way." I'm still afraid of "us", and you aren't helping.
L: "But when you get close to someone, it turns out like that no matter who it is, right?" Sorry, I can't control my feelings. I want you to tell me how you really feel, so I'm trying to make it as comfortable for you as I can.
H: "That's like giving bait to a fish you've already caught, but would you do that?" I'm still here, right? If you keep pushing this topic, you might scare me away.
L: "I'd say you got onboard on your own, rather than being a 'caught fish', so that doesn't work. Rather than giving you bait, I should be charging a boarding fee." Look, it's not like you are in prison here. I just need you to start reciprocating *some* day (I can't wait forever).
L: "What is it?" I guess I pushed too far about "us" again?
H: "In short, don't forget your original feelings. Come on. We're going, right?" Jerk. I still don't have an answer for you.
L: "Ah, right." Damn.
H: "Of course, it's because we've been journeying that I can hold your hand like this. But you know.. bards always sing 'I want it to be like when we first met' right?" I'm also more comfortable around you, but I honestly need "us" to stay like we were originally for now.
L: "You may be okay with it, but if things stayed like they were when we first met, I'd get too anxious and collapse." But I really *do* need your emotional support right now, if things were still like that I probably couldn't cope with the current situation.
H: "What are you talking about? I'll be taking care of you when you breathe your last, so don't worry." Don't worry, I'm still here for you and don't intend on leaving you anytime soon.
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Old 2009-09-14, 13:18   Link #74
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Wow.... so many interesting thoughts and comments about this episode.

Everything important seems to be discussed already.

For me it was a very nice episode. Although the animation quality gave me headaches again (... at least in case of Horo).
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Old 2009-09-14, 14:27   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
I think this time around Lawrence should have walked away and continued to head north where the church had less of a presence. This deal seems soooooooooooooo fishy. I would have cut and run somethings not right and i think Lawrence is going to end up betrayed have to go and save Horo but Horo ends up saving him.

Lawrence always chooses the riskiest ways to make money
Not really. When he plays it safe just doesn't make a good story, though. For example, just after Rubinhagen and the armor on credit deal, he bought nails. And Horo took him to task for being so cowardly...

There, too. He wanted to run. He wanted Horo to persuade him to run even though his "greed" kept him from refusing outright. She convinced him to go with it instead.
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Old 2009-09-14, 14:47   Link #76
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This episode got me heart and soul up in a twist again. Yeah, I was thinking "Whats up wolfy woman??" when she agreed to go along with Abe's scam. Urgh... urgh... gotta keep patient and wait for the next episode. And Lawrences retort really made me wanna smack him. But at least he tried to suggest more that he didn't want to sell off Horo... (my god, Horo would have to fight me to let her go if I was him. At least I'd die by the fangs of the woman I loved xD)

Preferably I go with SubsF'ingWhere translation since they're not so much a speed group but they're really good at getting the point accross in their translations.
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Old 2009-09-14, 18:46   Link #77
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This episode got me heart and soul up in a twist again. Yeah, I was thinking "Whats up wolfy woman??" when she agreed to go along with Abe's scam. Urgh... urgh... gotta keep patient and wait for the next episode. And Lawrences retort really made me wanna smack him. But at least he tried to suggest more that he didn't want to sell off Horo... (my god, Horo would have to fight me to let her go if I was him. At least I'd die by the fangs of the woman I loved xD)

Preferably I go with SubsF'ingWhere translation since they're not so much a speed group but they're really good at getting the point accross in their translations.
Thanks for the tip. If SFW's translation are more accurate, then yeah, Lawrence really did come off as a bit of a douche by joking around with such harsh words. Can't help but feel that she's getting her just desserts for being so cutting with him at times.

Plus, if she was hurt by it she's not doing either of them any favors by reacting the way she did. She should be a little more honest or he'll only keep learning the wrong way (she is his trainer, after all).
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Old 2009-09-15, 18:37   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not really. When he plays it safe just doesn't make a good story, though. For example, just after Rubinhagen and the armor on credit deal, he bought nails. And Horo took him to task for being so cowardly...

There, too. He wanted to run. He wanted Horo to persuade him to run even though his "greed" kept him from refusing outright. She convinced him to go with it instead.
I do remember the nail incident and yea your right Horo did chastise him for being cowardly . It just seems sometimes for the risk that he undertakes his profit is actually not that large. Maybe i was looking at in the wrong way but this time around my spidey sense is going crazy.
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Old 2009-09-15, 22:38   Link #79
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I do remember the nail incident and yea your right Horo did chastise him for being cowardly . It just seems sometimes for the risk that he undertakes his profit is actually not that large. Maybe i was looking at in the wrong way but this time around my spidey sense is going crazy.
I was always wondering where she got off being such a jerk to Lawrence. The guy had a pretty damn rough week that time, after all. Give the guy a couple of days at a festival to unwind before you break his balls

But then Horo is all about turning Lawrence into her picture of the perfect male, which is apparently a gigantic male wolf-deity with the nerves of steel that could only come from being one. Good luck to her with that

(And yes, I'm half-joking with most of the above)
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Old 2009-09-16, 22:16   Link #80
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So, one thing I don't see that anyone said they thought was notable: Horo was addressing Lawrence with "Nushio..." as she tried to awaken him. I see nushi defined variously as "owner / master / lover / god"... and there's only one of those I can actually envision her saying to her aibo
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