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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 104 53.61%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 55 28.35%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 8.76%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 4.64%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 2.58%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 1.03%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.03%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-09-12, 12:05   Link #261
Dr. Casey
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And I didn't see any "problem" being "suffered" by Shakugan no Shana here as it pertains to the anime original plot. I typically found it very dramatic, entertaining, intense, suspenseful, and well done. So what if it diverged from the source material, as long as that source material story is eventually done?
I agree, but I'm not sure the source material will end up being animated in this case. Didn't JC Staff say that the third season was going to be the last one, even though I don't think the light novels are particularly winding down yet? It will probably end up being a good story in its own right, but kind of a shame for the novel material to be lost regardless.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:09   Link #262
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I agree, but I'm not sure the source material will end up being animated in this case. Didn't JC Staff say that the third season was going to be the last one, even though I don't think the light novels are particularly winding down yet?
You're right about how the third season is reportedly going to be the last. I've heard that elsewhere as well.

However, I'm not aware of the current standing of the Shana light novels.

One point I want to bring up though... it's quite possible that one of the costs of E8 is that some part of the Haruhi source material won't be animated. There's a lot left to get to. While I would say that it's likely we'll get Disappearance at some point, I think that it's far from certain how deep into the novels we will get.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:13   Link #263
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E8 made Kyon look like a hopelessly lazy idiot in the eyes of a lot of anime fans. That is not his character; he's not that bad. I don't think that the novels ever intended him to look that bad.
The novel version of the story also made him out to be a lazy idiot. That would have happened even if there was only one episode.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
To the best of my knowledge, JC Staff didn't 'completely alter' the personalities of the Toradora or Shana casts... aside from arguably improving upon Hecate. You can do anime original material with out completely altering the cast's personalities.
I didn't state they did. I was asking if you'd be willing to risk it. It's very rare for a long string of anime-original content to not alter a cast, and generally it ends up happening to the detriment of future stories.
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... well... at least it's written the same...
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:18   Link #264
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
You're right about how the third season is reportedly going to be the last. I've heard that elsewhere as well.

However, I'm not aware of the current standing of the Shana light novels.

One point I want to bring up though... it's quite possible that one of the costs of E8 is that some part of the Haruhi source material won't be animated. There's a lot left to get to. While I would say that it's likely we'll get Disappearance at some point, I think that it's far from certain how deep into the novels we will get.
The beauty of a faithful adaption that doesn't conflict with the novels, is that there is no hurry to end the series. The studio doesn't write itself into a corner with no way of continuing, so it is free to stop at any particular novel for a break.

We may or may not go all the way to book 9 for the Haruhi anime, but all the plot points that makes Book 9 work as an anime can still work, because the author made sure there was no conflicts. There will always be room to follow more novels, as long as the adaptation is faithful. This is a luxury non-faithful adaptations do not have.

One old-school example is the Slayers novels. The anime franchise deviated so much that it is now not capable of ending the same way as the novels did. The studio WANT to continue, but they can't; the dramatic ending that lead to the title "Slayer" to be gifted to the two main characters, no longer has relevance.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:21   Link #265
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I think Tanigawa gets consulted for help with the anime more often than people may think. Seeing as how KyoAni tries to stay as close to the nature's of stories as possible, or at least that is what seems to be the case, then Endless Eight was made to be an eight episode arc while still holding true to Tanigawa's idea of the story.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:22   Link #266
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Well the episode was simply great. In terms of art quality, I would say that this was the best out of all five episodes. My favorites of Sighs would have to be between 3 and 4 however.

This made me laugh so hard though.
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:22   Link #267
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Originally Posted by Heminga13 View Post
I think Tanigawa gets consulted for help with the anime more often than people may think. Seeing as how KyoAni tries to stay as close to the nature's of stories as possible, or at least that is what seems to be the case, then Endless Eight was made to be an eight episode arc while still holding true to Tanigawa's idea of the story.
Since Tanigawa wrote the script for Sigh, he is more than a consultant; he is a staff member.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:42   Link #268
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The novel version of the story also made him out to be a lazy idiot. That would have happened even if there was only one episode.
I respectfully disagree. I could get into why, but it would involve regurgitating a lengthy discussion that I had with Akka and others several weeks back.


Quote:
I didn't state they did. I was asking if you'd be willing to risk it. It's very rare for a long string of anime-original content to not alter a cast, and generally it ends up happening to the detriment of future stories.
... no, it's not rare. Shonen anime does it all the time. Shonen anime does it out of necessity (their only alternative would be something like Endless Eight), and cleverly manages to have filler that doesn't alter the cast so that when there's more new manga material to animate, it picks up the manga storyline with out skipping a beat.


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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The beauty of a faithful adaption that doesn't conflict with the novels, is that there is no hurry to end the series.
Well, I would say that a faithful adaptation simply ties its length to the length of the source material, in most cases. This can make it longer, or shorter, depending on the creativity of the animation studio.

The anime Black Cat contains the basic manga storyline, but some added anime content as well, so it's actually longer than the manga.


Quote:
The studio doesn't write itself into a corner with no way of continuing, so it is free to stop at any particular novel for a break.
It's not that hard to do anime original content that doesn't 'write itself into a corner'. Like I said to Kogetsu, shonen anime does it all the time.


Quote:
We may or may not go all the way to book 9 for the Haruhi anime, but all the plot points that makes Book 9 work as an anime can still work, because the author made sure there was no conflicts. There will always be room to follow more novels, as long as the adaptation is faithful. This is a luxury non-faithful adaptations do not have.
Many non-faithful adaptations also have that luxury.


Quote:

One old-school example is the Slayers novels. The anime franchise deviated so much that it is now not capable of ending the same way as the novels did. The studio WANT to continue, but they can't; the dramatic ending that lead to the title "Slayer" to be gifted to the two main characters, no longer has relevance.
Slayers came out with a new anime series not that long ago. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I've thoroughly enjoyed all of the Slayers anime work. I thought it was great for the most part. And it's long enough at three and a half seasons of content, and several movies.

I'm quite satisfied with it. Given this fact, I frankly don't care a great deal over how faithful it was to any source material behind it.


... Anyway, I want to thank you, Vallen, for the spirited debate. I now know why the anime/KyoAni fandom differs from the other fandoms that I've been a part of.

The reason being that the other fandoms were fans of the source material entertainment... so these concerns over faithful adaptations wasn't an issue for them. Likewise, it's not an issue with me when it comes to the vast majority of anime that I watch since I experience the content in anime version first, usually. So these fandoms judge the source material by a wide array of criteria, naturally leading to a full accounting of both strengths and weaknesses.


However, now I see that many anime fans are a lot like fans of the movie versions of their favorite books: they don't watch the movie for the story, they watch the movie for the adaptation, so many judge the movie strictly on how faithful the adaptation is.

That's fine, and that does explain why many KyoAni fans are uniquely fervent in their support for KyoAni. I'll certainly say that in this one area, KyoAni is exceptional; yes, they're very faithful adapters of the source material; too faithful, sometimes, I would argue.

But... not all anime fans are fans of the source material that it arises from. So for us, at least, faithful adaptations isn't the biggest concern, which is why we're not going to see KyoAni the way that source material fans do. For us, we're going to evaluate this studio largely by other measures.

At the end of the day, I hope that source material fans can respect that.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:44   Link #269
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It's a matter of degrees, Vallen.

E8 made Kyon look like a hopelessly lazy idiot in the eyes of a lot of anime fans. That is not his character; he's not that bad. I don't think that the novels ever intended him to look that bad.
You are missing the point here i think.

This entire rerun is based within pre-existing episodes. The characters are still the same AT THOSE POINTS. The development inbetween (eg EE and Sighs) help to create the characters we know and love in the original season.

Eg Kyon = Lazy idiot in Endless Eight but in Sighs he redeems himself being the only person who stood up to Haruhi.

Likewise with Haruhi she is a bitch during Sighs but because of the development we understand WHY she changes and we then realise how much she actually does change.
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Old 2009-09-12, 12:53   Link #270
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You are missing the point here i think.

This entire rerun is based within pre-existing episodes. The characters are still the same AT THOSE POINTS. The development inbetween (eg EE and Sighs) help to create the characters we know and love in the original season.

Eg Kyon = Lazy idiot in Endless Eight but in Sighs he redeems himself being the only person who stood up to Haruhi.

Likewise with Haruhi she is a bitch during Sighs but because of the development we understand WHY she changes and we then realise how much she actually does change.
Ok... yes, Kyon improves in Sighs. You're right there, Tornadium.

Great sig graphic by the way.
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:00   Link #271
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Ok... yes, Kyon improves in Sighs. You're right there, Tornadium.

Great sig graphic by the way.
Thanks.

I really do understand where you are coming from.

I try to look at it as one whole season instead of two. The character development carries on, we are just getting the bits in the middle
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:05   Link #272
Dr. Casey
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Ok... yes, Kyon improves in Sighs. You're right there, Tornadium.
Getting tired of debating? Poor guy, this thread looks like a headache.

I think Itsuki's fashion sense improves during Sighs, too. He's hot as hell during the cafe scene in that black suit.
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:15   Link #273
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Getting tired of debating? Poor guy, this thread looks like a headache.

I think Itsuki's fashion sense improves during Sighs, too. He's hot as hell during the cafe scene in that black suit.
That's his same old school uniform he always wore, it's just that the lighting made the blazer look black.
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:17   Link #274
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Getting tired of debating? Poor guy, this thread looks like a headache.
Most debates are,

However when they are GOOD debates it's usually worth it.
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:18   Link #275
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I think Itsuki's fashion sense improves during Sighs, too. He's hot as hell during the cafe scene in that black suit.
I actually thought Sighs was something of a step backwards, fashion-wise, because most of the time they're all wearing the same costumes for the movie. Koizumi has his school uniform on pretty much the entire arc. (Including this episode's café scene, if that's what you're referring to...) I personally liked a lot of the stuff in Endless Eight, to be honest. I mean, it brought us the SPEEDO after all, and that in turn led to some pretty awesome doujinshi.

(Somewhat related -- do you suppose it's Koizumi's own fashion sense, or does the Organization provide him with a specifically-selected "wardrobe"?)
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:22   Link #276
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(Somewhat related -- do you suppose it's Koizumi's own fashion sense, or does the Organization provide him with a specifically-selected "wardrobe"?)
It's probably his own fashion sense.

Or rather what he thinks Haruhi wants his fashion sense to be.
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:37   Link #277
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Thanks.

I really do understand where you are coming from.

I try to look at it as one whole season instead of two. The character development carries on, we are just getting the bits in the middle
That's probably going to be a good way of looking at it going forward, yeah.


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Getting tired of debating?
Getting there.

For me, once I'm on the "1" side of a 4 on 1 debate, I quit. Right now, it's 3 on 1... so I'm near the breaking point, lol.

I'll probably let it go at this point.


Quote:
Poor guy, this thread looks like a headache.

I think Itsuki's fashion sense improves during Sighs, too. He's hot as hell during the cafe scene in that black suit.
Itsuki's fashion sense through out Sighs is pretty good imo, yeah.
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:44   Link #278
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Episode 24 article is up:

[RIUVA] Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (2009), Episode 24: Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki V

Nicely done ending to a pretty good arc. 9/10.
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:50   Link #279
worldruined
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Itsuki's fashion sense through out Sighs is pretty good imo, yeah.
Because it takes some real style to wear a uniform like that, definitely. Blazer on, blazer off... oooh, no tie and the top shirt buttons are undone, yowzah! Lots of variety going on, and no one else would have ever tried such daring combinations. How does he do it?
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:52   Link #280
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Because it takes some real style to wear a uniform like that, definitely. Blazer on, blazer off... oooh, no tie and the top shirt buttons are undone, yowzah! Lots of variety going on, and no one else would have ever tried such daring combinations. How does he do it?
I mainly meant in the scene where he goes to visit Kyon at his home.
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