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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 104 53.61%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 55 28.35%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 8.76%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 4.64%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 2.58%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 1.03%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.03%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-09-12, 13:55   Link #281
risingstar3110
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While of course i want more Haruhi, i admit that this episode is fitting to be an ending. Anymore new eps would require extreme skills and abilities in planning. So i don't want to push my own luck

Since we are having an overall discussion and E8 was brought back again, i have to say that: even as a Haruhi hardcore fan, it was not possible to endure through E8 as it was nothing. My grief stage of acceptance actually ended after the 5th E8, make 6th and 7th E8 were like hell. But i always want more Haruhi , so the end of E8 paid off, and Sight was a big bonus for me.

So overall, what is this season of rerun to me?

I was so freaking glad when watch the BLR. Downloading it gave me a mix feeling of both joy and worried as it may be just a scam. It was great to see Haruhi again after two years of waiting ( i picked SHny up in 2007). The episode was so great that i wanted to knock on the neighbour's door and introduce it (which's kind of silly).
Then we have the 4 week breaks (when every other series suddenly became quite dull). Then E8, when my mind is kind of blurred now trying to seperate which episode was which. I knows it was long, i knows it was disappointed, was desperate, full of screaming fanbase and fears that one of the best series may be messed up at that rate. I can't remember much detail now, but i remember the epic ending, and that it's over, and all the repetitions, angers, suspicions were over. I have to admit it's like a scandal that anchor within your memory and remind of the series' existence..... I will hate it if someone plan to approach this method again (it's one in the life time stun) but for this case i believe it works for its purpose. It will be remembered for the next several years and spark more debates along the way.
Sight undoubtedly was back to SHny and BLR, and Live a Life 's league. The end of Sight (this episode) gave me a sweet, fulfill feeling like how SHny was. The hype probably can't reach S1 level. But now i pray for its success so we can continue to see this incredibly quality in art works and direction (+ with the risks that the director can take)

PS: i still want another ending dance (the closest one i can think of is R-V S2 which i didn't even watch)
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Old 2009-09-12, 13:57   Link #282
Tornadium
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post

Getting there.

For me, once I'm on the "1" side of a 4 on 1 debate, I quit. Right now, it's 3 on 1... so I'm near the breaking point, lol.

I'll probably let it go at this point.


Well, Numbers don't usually count in a debate. The points made do.

Besides it's not like this is a hostile debate (Eg Arguement). Neither side is really right (In most cases, some things such as facts are non disputable) as it is down to opinions and individual perspectives. However what you do gain is insight into what other people think and just some general knowledge.
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:00   Link #283
EGFontanilla
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The title of the 2009 series didn't imply that the Disappearance arc was in it, it implied the end of the Haruhi anime series. Dx
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:03   Link #284
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Originally Posted by EGFontanilla View Post
The title of the 2009 series didn't imply that the Disappearance arc was in it, it implied the end of the Haruhi anime series. Dx
Uh

The title was The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 2009.

What makes you think it implies the end of the anime series?
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:05   Link #285
EGFontanilla
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Originally Posted by Tornadium View Post
Uh

The title was The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 2009.

What makes you think it implies the end of the anime series?
2009 Series had another name "The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya". And it was a joke that says "Instead of getting the Disappearance arc, we get the disappearance of the series once again".
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:10   Link #286
Heminga13
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Only fans gave it the 'Disappearance' title from what I recall.
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:11   Link #287
risingstar3110
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Sice the implication of this rerun is: BLR =3 years, E8 is endless eight, while Sight a long movie. So how can a Disapperance will fit in ( i don't know what's it about btw)....

Maybe we will have a whole episode where one of character was disappeared on screen while we didn't notice.
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:12   Link #288
Tornadium
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Originally Posted by EGFontanilla View Post
2009 Series had another name "The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya". And it was a joke that says "Instead of getting the Disappearance arc, we get the disappearance of the series once again".
Oh,

That was a fan name wasn't it?

I always though TMoHS was to sort out everything up to the Disappearance Chronologically.

So then the second season could be called The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya.
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:14   Link #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Sice the implication of this rerun is: BLR =3 years, E8 is endless eight, while Sight a long movie. So how can a Disapperance will fit in ( i don't know what's it about btw)....

Maybe we will have a whole episode where one of character was disappeared on screen while we didn't notice.
Wait a minute... in that one scene, the camera focused on an empty seat while Kyon was thinking of Haruhi...

OMG, KyoAni is trolling again!

*e*
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Originally Posted by Tornadium View Post
Oh,

That was a fan name wasn't it?

I always though TMoHS was to sort out everything up to the Disappearance Chronologically.

So then the second season could be called The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya.
Which is sad, as they're going to have to cut it tragically short to avoid including Intrigues. Thank you, '06 team, for screwing things up.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-09-12, 14:17   Link #290
Tornadium
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Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Wait a minute... in that one scene, the camera focused on an empty seat while Kyon was thinking of Haruhi...

OMG, KyoAni is trolling again!

*e*

Which is sad, as they're going to have to cut it tragically short to avoid including Intrigues. Thank you, '06 team, for screwing things up.
Haha,

Well you never know. The author might actually get Book 10 out before then (Long shot since he is just now starting it but whatever)
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Old 2009-09-12, 15:13   Link #291
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There is another possibility to Yuki's ending comment about trust. She could be (oddly) giving a meta comment about Kyon and his position as an unreliable narrator.
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Old 2009-09-12, 15:15   Link #292
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There is another possibility to Yuki's ending comment about trust. She could be (oddly) giving a meta comment about Kyon and his position as an unreliable narrator.
Wow,

That actually makes a lot of sense. I have no idea how i managed to miss that.
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Old 2009-09-12, 15:27   Link #293
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Which would mean that the only one we might be able to trust in the series...is Haruhi. And I don't think we can do that either...since she's chaotic.
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Old 2009-09-12, 15:30   Link #294
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Which would mean that the only one we might be able to trust in the series...is Haruhi. And I don't think we can do that either...since she's chaotic.
Oh lord.

Well Kyon's unreliability is pretty easy to see through in most cases (at least regarding Haruhi and a few other things). However not trusting the majority of what he says changes a lot about the series.
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Old 2009-09-12, 15:58   Link #295
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Personally, I would find Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody the most offensive thing Kyoto Animation has done with the franchise (Presuming the three year wait was for symbolic reasons, anyway). For starters, the gimmick completely fails on any sort of symbolic level, unlike Endless Eight and Sighs. Kyon and Mikuru go back in time three years, then jump ahead to the present. Okay... so how does that relate to three years passing by between the two cours? I could understand if there was a three year timeskip in the series at this point, then there would be somewhat of a connection since our time would pass in sync with the story's (Not that it would be remotely worth the wait even if the symbolism did have merit), but as things stand there's no real meaningful connection.

Endless Eight, at the very least, contributes a significant amount to the narrative. It did make the arc more engrossing and immersive for me, and it does become easier to empathize with Yuki; enrichment of one of the main characters is no small gain. And there's Sighs' movie gimmick, of course, which is obviously the best of the three, since it's fun, effective, and completely without inconvenience.

I'd have been a little pissed if I was one of the fans that got jerked around for three years just over a symbolic gesture that completely falls flat, though, since it's a much longer wait and doesn't really have any literary value (Thankfully, I finished the original run of Haruhi during May, so my wait was three days rather than three years - I started watching Haruhi at first during December 2007, but got bored for some reason and quit).
Umm... Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody is probably the most plot significant episode this whole second season. It sets up the entire plot of Disappearance. The "gimmick" if there was one, was the 3 year delay, not the BLR plot line which faithfully follows the novel, and the clues that were included in Season 1- remember the whole: "three years ago" during Melancholy?

BLR was not about some symbolic 3 year delay- rather I think they used it as an excuse to justify their 3 year delay as "symbolic".

Edit: Ah, I think maybe I misunderstood what you were saying earlier and thought you were complaining about the plot of BLR. Looking over it again I think you are actually complaining about the 3 year delay- in which case I tend to agree, although I doubt it was a deliberate decision, I think it more likely that it's just an excuse they are making.
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Old 2009-09-12, 16:13   Link #296
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I am sorry to say that I couldn't interpret your point as anything but "The customer is always right".
The reason you think KyoAni "shouldn't" have made Endless Eight, is that you are not happy about it. The entire view centered on the point that KyoAni should placed your desires above theirs.

Which, as I kept saying, is not at all wrong. You are free to hate Endless Eight as much as you like, and it is certainly justifiable.

But there is a difference between not getting what you want, and claiming KyoAni had "made a mistake".

Should or shouldn't have KyoAni made Endless Eight? I believe that is arguable. From your view, it shouldn't be made if it is not a marketable product. From my view, it should be made as long as the studio wished to and the sponsors are prepared to absorb the losses.

I guess I am old-fashioned; I want the studios and original authors to enjoy making the anime. That they should make what their hearts told them to make. To put it another way, all the things we love about Haruhi, the minor details, the faithfulness, the creation of faces and names of everyone in Haruhi's class, the participation of the author; all this are only possible because they WANT to do it.

Because of this, I can't say it is better if Endless Eight didn't get created. For all we know, this might sap the morale of the entire studio, and they might stop caring about Haruhi all together.

Endless Eight existed because KyoAni cared about what they are doing. They decided to do something crazy, because doing crazy things is what got them this far to begin with. A "normal" Haruhi production crew could not have created the Haruhi we know and love. I don't want to sacrifice that just to cut out Endless Eight. They deserve to have some fun too.
And of course all of this hinges on whether you believe Kyoani has artistic intentions that trump the goal of maximizing profit (which I find hard to impossible to believe since the majority of their shows either strike me as purely marketing oriented [K-On, Lucky Star, Haruhi] or demand oriented [Munto, Kanon, Clannad])......at which point we should be pulling around this lap and back to the finish line right about............now....and will it be going another lap, who is to know, but I think my race is probably over until the E8 DVD's come out at which point I'll have something new to go on.
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Old 2009-09-12, 16:17   Link #297
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I am sorry to say that I couldn't interpret your point as anything but "The customer is always right".
The reason you think KyoAni "shouldn't" have made Endless Eight, is that you are not happy about it. The entire view centered on the point that KyoAni should placed your desires above theirs.
I would like you to actually point where in my message I said anything that was even close to this.

It's not because someone points that E8 was bad that it's in any way linked about being a customer or not. I hold a judgement on the quality of a product, and my judgement is "it's bad". You can challenge this judgement, but I fail to see how the "customer" end of thing even enter the scope of it.
Quote:
Which, as I kept saying, is not at all wrong. You are free to hate Endless Eight as much as you like, and it is certainly justifiable.

But there is a difference between not getting what you want, and claiming KyoAni had "made a mistake".

Should or shouldn't have KyoAni made Endless Eight? I believe that is arguable. From your view, it shouldn't be made if it is not a marketable product. From my view, it should be made as long as the studio wished to and the sponsors are prepared to absorb the losses.

I guess I am old-fashioned; I want the studios and original authors to enjoy making the anime. That they should make what their hearts told them to make. To put it another way, all the things we love about Haruhi, the minor details, the faithfulness, the creation of faces and names of everyone in Haruhi's class, the participation of the author; all this are only possible because they WANT to do it.

Because of this, I can't say it is better if Endless Eight didn't get created. For all we know, this might sap the morale of the entire studio, and they might stop caring about Haruhi all together.

Endless Eight existed because KyoAni cared about what they are doing. They decided to do something crazy, because doing crazy things is what got them this far to begin with. A "normal" Haruhi production crew could not have created the Haruhi we know and love. I don't want to sacrifice that just to cut out Endless Eight. They deserve to have some fun too.
I agree on the overall principle of what you said. I'm ALL, really ALL, for "art above market". Trust me on this one. I'm a purist, a roleplayer, a dreamer, a whatever-with-no-money-value-attached, and though I'm by no means an artist, I respect and value them.

But I still think that E8 sucked and was a mistake - but I base this judgement on an overall value, not a "market" one. I consider that it was a terrible waste, because it was simply, let's say it, artsy wanking with very little anything else - there was some tiny bits of storytelling value, but they were far too diluted in the overly-stretched length of the arc, making them nearly worthless.

You can recognize that someone did something "for the art", and that it sucked nevertheless. Though I respect the passion, I can still say firmly that the result wasn't good.
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Old 2009-09-12, 18:20   Link #298
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Which would mean that the only one we might be able to trust in the series...is Haruhi. And I don't think we can do that either...since she's chaotic.
Chaotic doesn't necessarily mean untrustworthy. Well... it means her actions may be a bit unpredictable, but her words may still be trustworthy.

I do consider Haruhi the most open and trustworthy character in the anime.

By far.

That's the great irony. The most chaotic one is also the one you can trust to be honest the most. Haruhi may play games for a few seconds (like she did by nodding and smiling towards Kyon in this episode), but that's about it. You'll always get her true feelings and thoughts eventually.

For me, that's a big part of the charm of the character; she's honest while the narrator is unreliable and the three not-so-amigos are each engaged in trying to win over Kyon against the other two.
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Old 2009-09-12, 19:09   Link #299
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Another good thing about Sigh being animated. People are realizing that Haruhi is the only trustworthy member of the main cast.
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-09-12, 19:10   Link #300
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
And of course all of this hinges on whether you believe Kyoani has artistic intentions that trump the goal of maximizing profit (which I find hard to impossible to believe since the majority of their shows either strike me as purely marketing oriented [K-On, Lucky Star, Haruhi] or demand oriented [Munto, Kanon, Clannad])......at which point we should be pulling around this lap and back to the finish line right about............now....and will it be going another lap, who is to know, but I think my race is probably over until the E8 DVD's come out at which point I'll have something new to go on.
For once I agree with you, sure I would love for an anime studio to just say "Who cares what you want, here's what we want" and stop bowing at the whim of every anime fan. Tomino did this all the time, that's why I love Turn A Gundam.

Here's the thing as you mentioned Kyoto Animation is known for the anime quality and execution not for their dedication to art. Does anyone seriously think K-On is anything more than cute girls in a band? Does anyone seriously think their work adapting Key visual novel games is art? Has Kyoto Animation made anything like Turn A Gundam or Paranoia Agent? Not to my knowledge.

So why Endless eight?

Because they thought they could get away with it. Why adapt all the available Haruhi material when you can drag everything out?

Did they get away with it? Sales for Haruhi are down, but the true test will be the Endless eight DVDs.
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