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View Poll Results: Bakemonogatari - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 20 14.18%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 17.73%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 17.02%
7 out of 10 : Good 28 19.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 14 9.93%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 17 12.06%
4 out of 10 : Poor 8 5.67%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.71%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.71%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.13%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-09-14, 00:15   Link #141
alu546
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Sengoku adds way to much moe to this series. She is beyond cute.

This series is what it is, and I dont expect much more. That said, I find it interesting,

That boy who cursed her is about to get what he deserves.


More story with Sengoku(dont throw her away! )! and fill Kanburu in with Sajougahara!
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Old 2009-09-14, 00:56   Link #142
christinemarie
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Well they sacrifice this episode thanks to the opening and Nadeko antic it didn't ruin the whole show and to increase the budget for Tsubasa Cat Arc for improve animation. Felt sorry for Nadeko-chan. Shaft knows how to use their budget arc wisely.
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Old 2009-09-14, 01:07   Link #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christinemarie View Post
Shaft knows how to use their budget arc wisely.
Hm, not always ... Tsukuyomi comes to mind, where they manage to run out of time at BOTH finales ... then again that was 4-5 years ago
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Old 2009-09-14, 03:40   Link #144
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Oh well they sacrifice Nadeko story but SHAFT really make Nadeko beyond cute this time...
The most cute OP i ever seen ^^
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Old 2009-09-14, 04:42   Link #145
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Well, I gave it a 5, though that was given to the initial broadcasted raw with the gimped climax.

Gimped climaxes generally sit poorly with me - the ep seemed to both have the gimped animation and the gimped climax (was expecting something bigger, though that might just be my expectation), and it seemed that this arc was paced too quickly compared to what I thought to be the better paced Mayoi Snail arc. (Imagine if it were still 2 eps as per original schedule!)

That's really it, actually.
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Old 2009-09-14, 06:09   Link #146
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I think the main problem why SHAFT failed with this episode was they spent all their time and budget (mainly time, I doubt SHAFT is in financial trouble) on the OP. Yes, the op was fantastatic and very well made, but that was pretty much the only thing that was "completed" in this episode...

I think they needed to manage their time better. If they indeed have a staff shortage why bother spending a lot of time on the "icing of the cake" if the cake isn't even done yet?

However, the "un-numbered cuts" and "cut due to circumstances" wasn't a problem with only this episode. Started about 3 episodes ago, but there were only a few unfinished scenes. For example, episode 8 (the "Araragi gets swung around by his instestine episode") had some "cut-out" scenes but it was still awesome and imo the best episode of the series so far. This episode however, had way too many unfinished scenes and it was way too obvious particurarily towards the second half of the episode.

Nevertheless, bakemonogatari is still definatively my favourite series this season. Was actually expecting either spice and wolf II or umineko to be. Hopefully, SHAFT will get their act together and get back to the level of quality they had prior to episode 9.
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Old 2009-09-14, 08:09   Link #147
DragoZERO
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Well.. the episode started out really great. But it went down hill towards the end. It felt very inconclusive and it went straight to the ED and nothing with his sisters, bummer.
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Old 2009-09-14, 08:38   Link #148
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I gave the episode high marks for two reasons the first being the OP which i loved 100%. On to the ep, I dont think the episode itself was really about the oddity or the fact Araraki is an oddity. I feel Araragi learned a very important lesson this time around. A lesson that i think needed to be taught as it was touched on earlier. That part of his that Senjouhara fell in love with is also his kryptonite. Everyone always said Araragi you will help anyone wouldn't you? It has been touched on so many times yet it was glanced over. You cant save everyone there comes a time when you will have to pick and chose who you can save. Thats a lesson life that was as true in the past as it is today.
What Oshino said carried tremendous weight and is a peek at the future he wont always be there to help Araragi and if he leaves Shinobu he can be fully human again but as he said he just cant leave them alone. My rating reflected more on lessons learned and the potential for the future events.

As usual enjoyed the Kanbaru screen time her presence alone is enough to make me laugh. hum no Hitagi this time around i enjoyed the episode nonetheless.
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Old 2009-09-14, 11:01   Link #149
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Ah, the inevitable. But its no use complaining. After all, complaining about SHAFT's time management skills is like complaining about KyoAni's [lack of] originality. After reading about the initial response before subs were released, I was thinking of maybe waiting this one out -- to wait for the last station of the week to broadcast. Finally gave in after two days, and knowing what was about to come [animation-wise]...

Not as bad as many make it out to be. There was only one jarring scene IMO:

Referring to the second one, where he's speaking out loud and there was only this one delayed frame throughout (and even with his footsteps in the background). IMO, they should have just cut to a clear moon scene or some red/white/black/yellow/novel text than extend that one frame. Also, the scenery scenes could have used some contrast adjustments instead of just repeating for the nth time, but it was all good.

And speaking of the moon scenes:

Sinister eye in the sky, that second one. For a filler frame, the white eye moon scene served its purpose quite well -- though as I said above, I wish they made a clear moon scene too, just to eat up some of the red/black/freeze frames near the end [and to make the cover-up more legit].

On the episode itself... Not one, but two jormungars snakes! It was interesting, to say the least. Araragi was taught a very valuable lesson in de-- oh, what was I saying? Cute, cute Nadeko ! The OP alone is enough for this to get a 10* from me. Se~no! Demo son nan ja dame. Mou son nan ja hora. Kokoro wa shinka suru yo moto moto...

*I'm holding my vote till later when I see the final finished product (DVD). Polls are srs bzns.
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Old 2009-09-14, 11:51   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
I don't know what you're on about, really. People have different opinions, and it's fine to express them, but there's no reason to tell other people they're in denial or dismiss everything they say as "the halo effect" just because their opinion happens to differ from yours.

See, the problem is not that you're saying you didn't like the episode. The problem is you're insulting the people who said they did.
Its called immaturity and insecurity.... lacking the understanding that subjective assessments can differ; being insecure that others don't fall in line behind you; and insulting anyone who doesn't. There are many reasons to land all over the map on rating this episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejem
I think they needed to manage their time better. If they indeed have a staff shortage why bother spending a lot of time on the "icing of the cake" if the cake isn't even done yet?

However, the "un-numbered cuts" and "cut due to circumstances" wasn't a problem with only this episode. Started about 3 episodes ago, but there were only a few unfinished scenes. For example, episode 8 (the "Araragi gets swung around by his instestine episode") had some "cut-out" scenes but it was still awesome and imo the best episode of the series so far. This episode however, had way too many unfinished scenes and it was way too obvious particurarily towards the second half of the episode.
I used to think Shinbo was just unlucky with his animation outsourcing (starting way back with Tsukuyomi Moon Phase's broadcast disaster moments). However, this shows up in almost every series he's involved with ... to the point I'm leaning towards the idea he and his team simply budgets time and money exceptionally poorly during the broadcast period.
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Old 2009-09-14, 12:51   Link #151
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hum no Hitagi this time around i enjoyed the episode nonetheless.
Yeah.. but I miss her. I hope she returns next week. It would have been great if they had her find out from Kanbaru about Sengoku's stripping and see Hitagi's reaction to it and all. I miss her.
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Old 2009-09-14, 12:57   Link #152
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Is it just me or was the Red / Black cuts extremely frequent in this episode? I got such a headache just from watching it =_=... It's starting to feel like a cop out from doing complicated animations rather than stylization.

Anyway, is it just me or does it seem that Araragi is going to choose to become a full vampire again so that he can be strong enough to help people?
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Old 2009-09-14, 13:06   Link #153
DragoZERO
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Is it just me or was the Red / Black cuts extremely frequent in this episode? I got such a headache just from watching it =_=... It's starting to feel like a cop out from doing complicated animations rather than stylization.

Anyway, is it just me or does it seem that Araragi is going to choose to become a full vampire again so that he can be strong enough to help people?
There were a lot of those cut scene images. Running out of budget perhaps? lol.

And I don't think he'll become a full vampire b/c the reason he can't help people with oddities is because he is one himself.
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Old 2009-09-14, 13:29   Link #154
Sinestra
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There were a lot of those cut scene images. Running out of budget perhaps? lol.

And I don't think he'll become a full vampire b/c the reason he can't help people with oddities is because he is one himself.
Exactly that was one of the little lessons he was suppose to have learned this time around. He actually commented on it himself. Oshino is trying to teach Araragi something very important so when it comes time for Oshino to leave Araragi can carry on.
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Old 2009-09-14, 13:48   Link #155
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Exactly that was one of the little lessons he was suppose to have learned this time around. He actually commented on himself. Oshino is trying to teach Araragi something very important so he it comes time for Oshino to leave Araragi can carry on.
Edit: Nvm, Araragi said he was a tenth of a vampire and can't exorcise oddities because of that.
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Old 2009-09-14, 13:49   Link #156
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And speaking of the moon scenes:

Sinister eye in the sky, that second one.
Good catch. With a little bit of imagination, you could say they are snake eyes, one white, one red, that is, the eyes of a pair of snakes.

And the moons weren't the only representations of sinister forces gathering upon the shrine. Take this scene for example:



Two snakes, one white, one black, intertwined and opposed.

Little tidbits of visual foreshadowing of what's to come by the end of the episode.

Meanwhile:
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...it's about Araragi's growing-up. He decided to prepare for university entrance exam, but there remains another issues such as the oddity business and his relation with Senjogahara. This point was shown in this arc.
As a few other posters had already observed, Bakemonogatari plays on themes that are familiar to adolescents, ideas that are actually quite familiar to anyone who has watched enough "coming-of-age" anime. These themes have been building up for some time now, at least as far back as Ep3, as fish eric observed, if not earlier.

Through the show, Araragi has had to deal with a gnawing sense of worthlessness; to face up to his duties and responsibilities as a son and elder brother; been confronted with the need to make an active decision on whether to accept a girl's confession of love; go through hell to reconcile his girlfriend's relationship with her former best friend.

Yet, through this all, he has remained a largely passive individual who's generally happy to go with the flow. He's eager, almost suicidally committed, to help anyone he can, because he never really bothers to think about the potential outcomes of his actions. A passive person doesn't plan for his future. He merely reacts to the present.

In this episode, however, Araragi realises for the first time, through Oshino's warnings and his (yet another) near-death experience, that there are indeed limits to his power and kindness. Sooner or later, he has to face up to the fact that he can't have everything. He has to choose.

And, that, is how he's likely to grow up.

These are the emotional states he goes through, that have thus far been quite amply portrayed in the anime, through his own actions and also through the comments of the other characters, especially Hanekawa and Senjougahara. From these facts alone, it's not hard to deduce that there is a crucial dynamic between these three characters, the triangle formed by Vega, Altair and Deneb.

So, like monir, I expect sparks to eventually fly between Hanekawa and Senjougahara. The confrontation had seemed inevitable since the day Senjougahara detected Hanekawa's scent on Araragi. More crucially, it's more than likely that Vega and Deneb will be doing their utmost to push Altair towards a more proactive lifestyle because, let's face it, they are both in love with him (heck, almost every girl in the show is).

With Hanekawa's arc coming up, and with her departure for world travel drawing ever nearer, Araragi may soon have to face up to some rather unpleasant choices.

========

As for poor Nadeko-chan, yes, it's a bit of a pity that she's been sidelined by growing plot developments. She is cute, but as a character, she doesn't quite have the same depth as all of the other girls presented thus far. So, in a sense, she seems to be no more than a plot device. She is there to put Araragi in a position where he is forced, at last, to confront his own weaknesses head on.

========

Final point in a long post, it's interesting that Shinobu may be the source of all the oddities that have occurred thus far. Quite a fair bit has been revealed about her in this episode, as part of the continuing process of building Bakemonogatari's backstory in media res.

Given that Shinobu's bloodline makes her a magnet for oddities (which makes her a Shikon Jewel of sorts, I suppose; yes, I'm looking forward to the InuYasha sequel), it now makes more sense why Araragi has become the persistent target of so many "ghosts". After all, he and she now share the same "blood".

It's even more interesting to learn that Araragi could become fully human again by simply stopping his regular blood transfusions. The apparent implication here is that Shinobu may die without Araragi's blood, something that he is not quite willing to let happen.

How much more of this backstory will get revealed in the following arc, and whether it will have any impact on future developments, time will tell.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2009-09-15 at 11:21. Reason: Portions pertaining to hei's original post removed.
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Old 2009-09-14, 15:54   Link #157
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I'm rather surprised by the number of people in this thread who say that the kid who cursed Nadeko "deserves" the snake. The show made it pretty clear that this wasn't a serious curse, just a petty schoolyard grudge that got amplified by bad luck with Shinobu's presence and Nadeko screwing up her counter-curse. No one deserves to die for holding a grudge, especially for a curse that wasn't originally lethal (or even particularly painful, from the sound of it). I can sympathize with the message of "carefully choose who you want to save" but I can't see why some kid's death is being trivialized by claiming that it's justice. It's not justice, it's just a tragedy.
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Old 2009-09-14, 15:59   Link #158
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I can't see why some kid's death is being trivialized by claiming that it's justice. It's not justice, it's just a tragedy.
Observe the guys and their gushing of "affection" toward the "moe" character of Sengoku.

"Beauty" (or perception there-of) and "Cutness" can blind the minds of many.
Therein lies the answer...
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Old 2009-09-14, 16:55   Link #159
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Well, aside from the obvious choppiness of the last half of the episode (and aside from the 'onichan' buisness) I liked this episode. It featured really good character development for Araragi--and I am interested in him, not in some 'moralizing' way, but to see what his fate will be. I really hope his story will be animated, as opposed to constantly having girls hog the screen. Araragi is a really good person. But yes, if two girls, including the one that cursed nadeko, were saved, then so should the boy have been. For justice, both Kanbaru and Sengojahara should be in jail right now on assault charges--in fact a lot of anime girls should be. But oh no, only justice is required when it is against teenage boys.
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Old 2009-09-14, 17:44   Link #160
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I'm rather surprised by the number of people in this thread who say that the kid who cursed Nadeko "deserves" the snake. The show made it pretty clear that this wasn't a serious curse, just a petty schoolyard grudge that got amplified by bad luck with Shinobu's presence and Nadeko screwing up her counter-curse. No one deserves to die for holding a grudge, especially for a curse that wasn't originally lethal (or even particularly painful, from the sound of it). I can sympathize with the message of "carefully choose who you want to save" but I can't see why some kid's death is being trivialized by claiming that it's justice. It's not justice, it's just a tragedy.
From what I got from the episode, it was a serious curse. If the boy who planted it was able to pull off the curse correctly, Nadeko would've died. So if the boy knew all of this and still went through the curse, it is, in a sense, just for him to die. That is assuming that Nadeko wouldn't have been able to do the countermeasures herself.

And it wasn't just Nadeko messing up the countermeasures that triggered the curse; it was also because Shinobu's presence. If Shinobu hadn't lured in a bunch of other spirits, Nadeko messing up the countermeasure wouldn't have mattered.
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