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Old 2012-12-16, 06:23   Link #4761
Mahou
ダメ人 - 人間失格
 
 
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@seinen romance and "stronger" main characters: I don't think that just because a MC is physically able to beat someone up makes him better. That's just some surface-level of "manliness". The problem - for me - is that there's hardly a middle field between the soft-spoken/(wuss if you like to call it so) and common MC and the "manly" I-know-when-to-hit MC.

Anyway, seinen-wise my favorite is still Bitter Virgin. Not exactly a romance as we know it, but definitely better than other annoying series like Hetakoi's dramafest or Uwakoi with a psychically-messed MC (even though I read from the latter only the first two chapters. More than enough to instant-drop it)
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Old 2012-12-16, 07:47   Link #4762
Insane
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Many harem male leads nowadays lack severely in personality department. They often become mere plot devices rather than "actual" protagonist, where the girls usually take the lead roles most the time. Quite frankly, among many harem series today... too many male leads fit the WUSS category. While yes, even today, there are some notable exceptions to this pattern. It just happens -- the wussies outnumber the badasses

Perhaps this is the main reason why stuffs like sword art online, DxD, and Mahouka getting extremely popular nowadays. Apparently more and more fans prefer those kind of GAR male leads over the wuss ones.
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Old 2012-12-16, 08:45   Link #4763
KLGChaos
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I'm not a fan of DxD's MC. I have no problems with a strong lead, but his perverted side gets extremely old after awhile.

The thing about most ShoRom protagonists-- they are unintentional dicks. They go around being nice to everyone, get a bunch of girls after them and then end up destroying the girls to get together with the main girl anyway (no matter how many mistakes the main girl made throughout the series), leaving a bunch of broken-hearted girls in their wake.

I'd love to see a manga called "The Broken-Hearts Club" or something, about the nice secondary girls getting revenge on an MC who played them (albeit unintentionally) and then dropped them as soon as the main girl came running back. I think it would be an amusing premise to see the whole thing from their point of view.
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Old 2012-12-17, 10:13   Link #4764
Darknemo2000
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Not a fan of DxD. I am fine with hero and him being a pervert its just that the other characters and heroine are pretty weak and boring, playing under their stereotypes and never emerging as someone really original. A rather boring manga.
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Old 2012-12-17, 15:02   Link #4765
Znail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Not a fan of DxD. I am fine with hero and him being a pervert its just that the other characters and heroine are pretty weak and boring, playing under their stereotypes and never emerging as someone really original. A rather boring manga.
DxD is a novel series though, while it has a manga adaptation so should that not be mistaken for the real deal.
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Old 2012-12-17, 21:37   Link #4766
Master Chibi
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Originally Posted by Insane View Post
The fatal flaw of Good Ending is probably the way character development and the story work in this series makes it a much harder to stick with for a long run. In other words, the main issue of this story is the story itself.
The fatal flaw of Good Ending is that the author wants money and can't write anything past what he/she had in mind when starting out.

That, and naming it fucking GOOD ENDING of all god damn things.

That's like titling any work after its contents.

"Going to see Titanic?"

"Nope, I'm going to see SHE TOSSES THAT SHIT OVER THE SIDE"
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Old 2012-12-17, 21:49   Link #4767
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
The fatal flaw of Good Ending is that the author wants money and can't write anything past what he/she had in mind when starting out.

That, and naming it fucking GOOD ENDING of all god damn things.

That's like titling any work after its contents.

"Going to see Titanic?"

"Nope, I'm going to see SHE TOSSES THAT SHIT OVER THE SIDE"
Well what choice did she have, she has to make a living. Still, I agree she could have done a lot better than just shoving drama into readers' throat like its cotton candy.
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Old 2012-12-18, 02:17   Link #4768
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Well what choice did she have, she has to make a living. Still, I agree she could have done a lot better than just shoving drama into readers' throat like its cotton candy.
I think this mangaka's creativity doesnt go beind soap opera's. And I do not try to dish it - some really enjoy soap opera's plot and the mangaka does seem like a fan of it.

I mean it starts slow, building and establishing relationships seems fine then boom plot twist starts and after it follows another drama filled plot and after it another and so goes without the break, making characters look dumb and the plot increasingly weirder and weirder until a happy ending in the very last episodes very last five minutes while you had to suffer through 3 years worth of drama shit non-stop for that.
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Old 2012-12-18, 08:48   Link #4769
Insane
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In the end, don't forget than in Japan, the mangakas are considered more as employees (of the publishing company) than artists and it's not really up to them to decide when to end their work. (although of course, they can't really be forced to continue.)
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Old 2012-12-18, 12:03   Link #4770
arekwibowo
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I hate this manga. It sucks so much. The drama are too harsh, romance sucks if it's in there at all, and I find no possible way to even remotely connect with any of the characters.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-12-18 at 14:14.
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Old 2012-12-18, 20:37   Link #4771
Master Chibi
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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Well what choice did she have, she has to make a living. Still, I agree she could have done a lot better than just shoving drama into readers' throat like its cotton candy.
I can't hate on making a living (that's stupid).

I can hate on her being bad at it though.
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Old 2012-12-18, 22:47   Link #4772
vansonbee
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I can't hate on making a living (that's stupid).

I can hate on her being bad at it though.
Haha, I wish I can rep you for that.
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Old 2012-12-24, 11:11   Link #4773
Zetsubo
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I really would like to know why the MC's in most manga's these days are arguably always Mental weaklings ?

Cant we have one smart proactive, does the right thing at the right time, Hero for a change ?
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Old 2012-12-24, 19:07   Link #4774
DarkRaven
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lol well it looks like he finally got a pair and ran away with yuki
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Old 2012-12-25, 01:10   Link #4775
Insane
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Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
I really would like to know why the MC's in most manga's these days are arguably always Mental weaklings ?

Cant we have one smart proactive, does the right thing at the right time, Hero for a change ?
In my opinion, flawed/mental weakling protagonist is necessary to maintain the suspension of disbelief -- not as to why girls are interested in him in the first place (though that is usually addressed to some degree, but doesn't honestly matter too much), but why the "harem" status quo can be maintained for so long. If the guy is good looking and he knows it, and has no hesitation at all about the situation he's in, then he would just be a womanizer, and having a harem lead who actually sleeps around is not (usually) part of the fantasy. So the lead has to have some sort of justifiable inferiority complex (or plain inferiority) or some strong sense of morality that counters the situation he's in. So the option are
a) he can't be particularly smart
b) he can't be particularly handsome
c) he has to be dense about the feelings of the women around him
d) he has to be fixated on "true love" (either as an unreachable person or as a general concept), or... so on. Something so that he isn't taking advantage of the women who love him, or deliberately messing with their feelings.
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Old 2012-12-25, 06:53   Link #4776
noobita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
I really would like to know why the MC's in most manga's these days are arguably always Mental weaklings ?

Cant we have one smart proactive, does the right thing at the right time, Hero for a change ?
The readers will get angry and accuse him as Gary Stu.
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Old 2012-12-25, 12:24   Link #4777
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita View Post
The readers will get angry and accuse him as Gary Stu.
I never heard of anyone calling Kazuma a Gary Stu. Gary Stu i when you dont have flaws or dont have past to relate on. Build a character with his flaws like being hotblooded or too indifferent to justice and law (an antihero) it always works.

Mental weaklings are just meh . Just like Garu Stu's.
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Old 2012-12-25, 16:56   Link #4778
Starshipw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane View Post
So the lead has to have some sort of justifiable inferiority complex (or plain inferiority) or some strong sense of morality that counters the situation he's in. So the option are
a) he can't be particularly smart
b) he can't be particularly handsome
c) he has to be dense about the feelings of the women around him
d) he has to be fixated on "true love" (either as an unreachable person or as a general concept), or... so on. Something so that he isn't taking advantage of the women who love him, or deliberately messing with their feelings.
That is why my favorite harem MC is Nagi from Umi no Misaki. Being put in a situation where he could demand any perverted thing he wants out of the three maidens, he is always considerate of their wishes while never being afraid to respond to their desires. He is a. Intelligent without being a genius, b. good looking without being pretty, c. sensitive to girl's feelings and d. ready for any sexual encounter without being a stud or betraying the three maidens. The only dense thing he does is accept that others believe him to be a god without ever inquiring as to what duties this might require of him other than to choose a girlfriend.

I believe that this shows it is possible to have a harem manga without a MC who continually falls with his head in a crotch, runs away from girls who obviously have the hots for him, or with the outcome a forgone conclusion (the first girl may be arguably ahead, but a conclusion with any or all of the three or four girls would be a reasonable ending).
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Old 2012-12-25, 20:24   Link #4779
Diveman
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For me, Keima from TWGOK is my favorite harem MC, the only thing he has is that he's kinda dense, but he has come a long way of how he was before, and currently has reached a point where he might just be the perfect MC.
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Old 2012-12-25, 21:25   Link #4780
SoloPanda
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Negi! fatal flaw... he's 10.
I also can't get this. There are alot of ways to use character growth. But I suppose the easiest way is to make the protag start off at 0. I'm not sure if authors do this so readers can Identify with him but there are strong confident and completely imperfect protagonists out there who have alot of room to grow. (Kusanagi Godou, Akuto, Hentai Ouji).
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