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Old 2010-03-25, 10:27   Link #901
Kleeyook
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Somewhere close to Valhalla
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I'm not the type to punch someone back but rather........peaceful solution.
BTW, what is with this insane of arguments? Are you guys the type that get bullied relieve your anger by posting on sites?
I'm the type that'll shoot anyone who aim a gun at me if I have gun too. And I'm the type that'll inform my comrades who practice martial arts when I get bullied. And I'm the type that'll try not to get caught by some gangsters at all cost because I know I'll never get out unharmed. All of my classmates are friendly, not scums of course. It's no point to fight someone who can beat the hell out of you while you can barely or never hit them back.
I know how it sucks if your bully happen to be a delinquent as well, but I'll try hard not to hit him back if he were since it'll get worse.

Last edited by Kleeyook; 2010-03-25 at 10:43.
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Old 2010-03-25, 10:36   Link #902
Waven
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So how does that nice little story about bullies fit in with Utsumi again? He's been hit once by Ryou who was just being overprotective or possessive or just plain jealous, either way he had a clear motivation other than an intention to bully him and although he did act like an ass when the two first met at Yuki's place, he didn't do him any harm. Now Keito when he met Utsumi for the first time didn't even comment on him, he actually seemed like a polite person, bullies are no like that.
I don't get how one can get so obsessed with a single incident and make conclusions about a character's personality based on it as if the character would never develop any further.

PS: If there's anyone bullying him, it's the girls - emotional bullying
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Old 2010-03-25, 10:51   Link #903
Kleeyook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
So how does that nice little story about bullies fit in with Utsumi again? He's been hit once by Ryou who was just being overprotective or possessive or just plain jealous, either way he had a clear motivation other than an intention to bully him and although he did act like an ass when the two first met at Yuki's place, he didn't do him any harm. Now Keito when he met Utsumi for the first time didn't even comment on him, he actually seemed like a polite person, bullies are no like that.
I don't get how one can get so obsessed with a single incident and make conclusions about a character's personality based on it as if the character would never develop any further.

PS: If there's anyone bullying him, it's the girls - emotional bullying
Yeah, it's not bullying but these guys on the board keep bashing ME and him. It's just misunderstanding or sudden rage and thus no need to resolve it with force since it's not gonna make him look cool anyway. And Utsumi is a pacifist, he's not a ****.
BTW, note that Shirazumi Lio from Kara no Kyuokai first murder was punching a person to death with ONE upper-cut.
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Old 2010-03-25, 13:04   Link #904
Darknemo2000
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Waven, let me remind you about the first meeting with Ryou between Utsu and him in Yuki's place, because you seem to forget that he was shoved with a lot of force. yes it was not punch but the same act of violent force was used.

Ryou uses the same bully psychology (in both times he is not reserved to use force in the second case even stronger expression of it and Utsu's mature non-activity doesn't impress him at all) thats what the resemblance is there while Keito
Spoiler for Keito:

And no I was not bullied at school there were few attempts but since they always involved me trying to fight back (note that I not always won - but its is still better to be beaten but land a few hits, it still takes the toll on bullies and they just try to search for something easier) I dindn't had much troubles regarding that. There were the guys who did - maybe they thought they were taking a mature way out but most of us thought that they were just weak and feeling helpless thus didn't try to oppose, rather than being mature and choosing not using force. I wonder why.

Kleeyook, what kind of peaceful solution you can have when your bag is taken from time to time things are thrown out in the corridor, pencils and other items are thrown into the schools trash-bin outside, then during lunches they take the lunch money, spit into your jacket pockets, lock you in the dressing room for a few hours, and during the big breaks take at least one kick into your stomach for better riddance? Or when one lifts a girls skirt and pushes the bullied guys face into her crotch and keeps it in there while his other buddies kicks his ass (saw this one myself few times, but not always the girls crotch few times it was another guys)?

What will you say? "Hey, lets be friends?" "Peace?" They will just laugh at you and add a few more hits so that the 'friendly' guy like you would learn something about friendship and peace.

Heck I do not even know all the bullying methods as I wasn't on a receiving end, just the ones I learned from others or saw myself (there were some nasty talks about bullying in toilets but I do not know if they were true). There is no way you can peacefully solve this... Its either they continue bully you and it gets worse, or you become a brutal ape and flex your muscles and give them back a few arguments of your own with your fists.

Yes Ryou and Keito situations are not particularly bully in itself, but tehy seem to use the same - "I shit on you because you do not do anything" approach, one uses physical violence the other emotional (or else
Spoiler for else:
)

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2010-03-25 at 13:36.
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Old 2010-03-25, 13:46   Link #905
Kleeyook
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Hey dude! I think this is off-topic discussion already. I'm not gonna argue with u anymore. It seems like u still want to talk about bullying no matter what while the scenes in the manga between Ryuo and Utsumi aren't. And Keito and Utsumi scenes are most likely ......... an act of insult.
About training your muscle and retaliate, u have a point there. But my point for peaceful solution is because I'd have noway of beating them back at all. Imagine if your opponent is a boxer, the one getting bullied is not going to win without weapon, u know! And that's not nice seeing how many people died from weapon fight.
And Utsumi is a pacifist who doesn't know how to fight, I shouldn't mention him anymore since the situations he's in are not bullying.
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Old 2010-03-25, 14:02   Link #906
Darknemo2000
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Kleeyook, the problem is that some people take Utsu's act as sign of strength and maturity instead of inability. They make it as if he made a choice not to use his strength by his own free will rather than being forced into such situation because of his physical weakness.

I already told that they are not bullies per se - but these guys seems to use same logic as bullies - they push until you let them do that. It is hard to tell if Keito does that all the time but the two meetings with Ryou shows us that he is not hesitant to use violence (and on the second meeting stronger because on the first meeting Utsu looked like a weak pushover and because he is more mad about Yuki in second case, but again if he were cautious about Utsu he might have not punched him still).

Utsu will not have to deal with Keito but he will with Ryou as long as he stays around Yuki. But in Keito's case what else have you left to lose -
Spoiler for he:


And if my opponent was a boxer I would still hit him. Yeah I would loose and will be beaten down but if I manage to land few hits one him - its all fine. He will eventually move on and try someone else - all bullies want to take an easy victims. Hard ones though annoy them, still makes them move away eventually. On the other hand, the 'mature' ones that do nothing are good fields for they bully imagination...
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Old 2010-03-25, 20:51   Link #907
Cinocard
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Darknemo, if the reason of Ryou's punch was that he CAN punch Utsumi, proving him otherwise by fighting back would be clever. But his reason was that he cares for Yuki.

I already showed that Ryou hit Utsumi not because Utsumi is an easy victime (though he indeed is), but because Ryou, due to a misunderstand, was taken over by burst of emotion. Assuming Utsumi were a boxer, I believe Ryou would still hit him. Assuming Utsumi had beaten the crap out of Ryou before, I believe Ryou would still have hit Utsumi, only by a weapon instead of his fist. You just totally ignored my point.

Because Ryou cares for Yuki, Ryou bullies Utsumi since Utsumi is "bulliable." If Utsumi wasn't so, Ryou might use even more extreme methods to make Utsumi stay away from Yuki.

And Ryou is a cousin very close to Yuki and her parents. If Utsumi does want to take it long with Yuki, the final goal he eventually has to work for would be to make Ryou accept him (painfully) by showing that Utsumi would never hurt Yuki like her ex. Beating Ryou now would make that task much harder.

I agree Utsumi has shown his incapability many times before, but it's not the case when he looked at Ryou straight in the eyes, and clearly explained the misunderstanding, which was the root of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight012 View Post
So you just sit around and watch quaietly how scum like that goes around and do what he please? thats so wrong because talking wont solve anything either.
I already said, you think punching scumbags fix their personalities? Please, even assuming that punching does fix them, in the heat of the situation you punch them not because you think you should punch to fix them, but simply BECAUSE you are angry, that's all.
Spoiler for too long, save space:
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Old 2010-03-25, 21:20   Link #908
Flight012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Darknemo, if the reason of Ryou's punch was that he CAN punch Utsumi, proving him otherwise by fighting back would be clever. But his reason was that he cares for Yuki.

I already showed that Ryou hit Utsumi not because Utsumi is an easy victime (though he indeed is), but because Ryou, due to a misunderstand, was taken over by burst of emotion. Assuming Utsumi were a boxer, I believe Ryou would still hit him. Assuming Utsumi had beaten the crap out of Ryou before, I believe Ryou would still have hit Utsumi, only by a weapon instead of his fist. You just totally ignored my point.

Because Ryou cares for Yuki, Ryou bullies Utsumi since Utsumi is "bulliable." If Utsumi wasn't so, Ryou might use even more extreme methods to make Utsumi stay away from Yuki.

And Ryou is a cousin very close to Yuki and her parents. If Utsumi does want to take it long with Yuki, the final goal he eventually has to work for would be to make Ryou accept him (painfully) by showing that Utsumi would never hurt Yuki like her ex. Beating Ryou now would make that task much harder.

I agree Utsumi has shown his incapability many times before, but it's not the case when he looked at Ryou straight in the eyes, and clearly explained the misunderstanding, which was the root of the problem.



I already said, you think punching scumbags fix their personalities? Please, even assuming that punching does fix them, in the heat of the situation you punch them not because you think you should punch to fix them, but simply BECAUSE you are angry, that's all.
Spoiler for too long, save space:
I never said scumbags can fix their personalities but what u point out is clearly wrong but oh well
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Old 2010-03-25, 22:49   Link #909
Cinocard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight012 View Post
I never said scumbags can fix their personalities but what u point out is clearly wrong but oh well
Well you said instead of sitting around, we should do something. But we do something either because of impulse or emotion, or we think it results in a positive way. "We must do something because we can't not do anything" is begging the question.

What I showed is that the result will be neither an effective lesson nor a proper punishment nor a good prevention. What other result do you suggest that we will get from doing something to those scumbags?
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Old 2010-03-26, 01:04   Link #910
Darknemo2000
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Being more careful with their tongue. Keito may continue to be a scumbag but a hit from Utsu may makes him to reconsider at least the emotional put-down after. I would say it is worth a try.

And I completely disagree with your opinion about Ryou. Yes he does care about Yuki, but just because he cares it doesn't make his paranoia anything better that you should take.

And I do not think he could have done all that much worser, if Utsu struggled during the first meeting I actually doubt that Ryou would have hit Utsu during the second meeting at all. If Utsu performed real well all that he would have gotten would be grab on his collar and menacing look.

Now though he went for a punch which I think is a combination of both - his Yuki paranoia and the impression of Utsu he got from the first time as a weak pushover guy.
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Old 2010-03-26, 07:18   Link #911
Flight012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Well you said instead of sitting around, we should do something. But we do something either because of impulse or emotion, or we think it results in a positive way. "We must do something because we can't not do anything" is begging the question.

What I showed is that the result will be neither an effective lesson nor a proper punishment nor a good prevention. What other result do you suggest that we will get from doing something to those scumbags?
cino I am over with this discuss coz its pointless u are that type the would sit quaiet even if someone would spit in ur face.
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Old 2010-03-26, 14:07   Link #912
Cinocard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo
Being more careful with their tongue. Keito may continue to be a scumbag but a hit from Utsu may makes him to reconsider at least the emotional put-down after. I would say it is worth a try.
I didn't carefully read the raw. I don't know what shit Keito was saying, though I assumed he was not so blunt with his girlfriend nearby. Probably not.
Quote:
And I completely disagree with your opinion about Ryou. Yes he does care about Yuki, but just because he cares it doesn't make his paranoia anything better that you should take.
I don't say his paranoia is something Utsumi would take. But he took it already. After that it's a matter of not letting it happen again, which I already argued why talking is better.

Probably your definition of not "take" is that: don't let it happen to you, and if it already happened, you have to pay the opponent back, just for the sake of nothing but paying it back. Mine is that don't let it happen to me, and if it already happened, I would not pay back what was unjustifiedly did to me, if it doesn't do me anything rather than just having it equal.
Quote:
And I do not think he could have done all that much worser, if Utsu struggled during the first meeting I actually doubt that Ryou would have hit Utsu during the second meeting at all. If Utsu performed real well all that he would have gotten would be grab on his collar and menacing look.
IMO struggling would not be enough. Utsumi would have to get Ryou good to see any effect (which he is indeed incapable of, anyway).

Also the more Ryou is "scared" of Utsumi, the more he is reluctant to hit him. True. But so do his desire to hit Utsumi, and his worry over Yuki. So it's very hard to tell what would actually happen.
Spoiler for Flight012:

Last edited by Cinocard; 2010-03-26 at 16:37.
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Old 2010-03-26, 19:59   Link #913
Iron21
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Spoiler for Ch 30 spoilers (Most likely fake):
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Old 2010-03-26, 20:01   Link #914
wingman32x
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Originally Posted by Iron21 View Post
Spoiler for Ch 30 spoilers (Most likely fake):
Haha yeah right. I say 99.9% chance of being bullshit.
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Old 2010-03-26, 20:05   Link #915
Iron21
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Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
Haha yeah right. I say 99.9% chance of being bullshit.
Yeah, it was posted by the same guy who posted chapter 29 spoilers.


He's probably trolling this time around.
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Old 2010-03-26, 20:32   Link #916
Waven
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I'd be the best response of defiance for those otakus who nuked the author's blog for their image of Shou being pictured as a b****

Spoiler for :
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Old 2010-03-26, 20:42   Link #917
wingman32x
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
I'd be the best response of defiance for those otakus who nuked the author's blog for their image of Shou being pictured as a b****

Spoiler for :
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-03-26, 21:39   Link #918
Cinocard
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The dreaded thing is that even though it sounds so bullshit, somewhere in us still knows that there's a possibility...
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Old 2010-03-26, 21:45   Link #919
aliasxn
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Spoiler for 30:
__________________
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Old 2010-03-26, 22:43   Link #920
Mizuno
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What a depressing manga if that is true. Misleading manga title is misleading.
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