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Old 2009-09-26, 07:59   Link #181
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Really? Because last I checked, Whitebeard didn't show up until 8 chapters ago, while Luffy has been trying to rescue Ace for the past 35 chapters.
That doesn't mean anything though, its safe to say Whitebeard had been making moves to save Ace the moment he found out Ace was captured by Blackbeard and the World Government. Which happened more than 35 Chapters ago. Proof is the army of Pirates he has aiding him in this war, you can't do something like that in one day or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Yeah, I also gotta admit that I find it kinda strange that people are chiding Newgate for actually playing it safe and biding his time before rescuing Ace himself. I'd think that would be a mark of his experience, right there. I mentioned this earlier, but when Luffy was running to Ace's rescue, he didn't have as much of an easy time getting past those marines as he did in Enies Lobby, seeing as he nearly got fried by one of Kizaru's beams and actually got injured by some of the grunts (and a good majority of THOSE guys are VAs too, remember). Obviously Luffy wouldn't go down as quickly as Oars did, but him and the giant already prove that Whitebeard made the smart choice in standing back and issuing commands to his forces.......
Yeah I agree, plus it wouldn't interesting for me if Whitebeard stepped in yet. Even though I do want to see him fight really bad. His DF ability makes him incredibly dominant, so if he did step in we wouldn't be able to see what his crew is truly capable of. And what the other Marines are capable of. I'm just curious as to who's going to square off against Whitebeard between Garp or Sengoku and to see if anybody else shows up.

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Its clear Phenomenal has a problem with a good quality and balanced storytelling. I have my own disappointments in One Piece, but my approval rating for it overall is 9/10. Maybe if the other 2 had done the same and put some time into their stories, it wouldn't have gone to shits. The other 2 are barely over the 5.0 mark in approval ratings, in my opinion. You find the silliest things to complain about. Luffy has been M.I.A since the war started, he get 2 chapters, and you complain. C'mon man, quit it.
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Oda's plan A is fanservice right now...
I'm fine with that, as long as he doesn't over-do it. Some manga's have been fan service for the past 5-6 months.
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Weed, there is nothing wrong with it.. Seriously what's so bad about it? Smoking weed and eating out your fridge and laughing at the simple things? Or getting in fights and causing injury and accidents. Beer is the destruction of this nation, Herb is the healer! Don't listen, make your own choices!

Last edited by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk; 2009-09-26 at 08:17.
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Old 2009-09-26, 09:21   Link #182
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
That doesn't mean anything though, its safe to say Whitebeard had been making moves to save Ace the moment he found out Ace was captured by Blackbeard and the World Government. Which happened more than 35 Chapters ago. Proof is the army of Pirates he has aiding him in this war, you can't do something like that in one day or so.
True, he might have been. But that all happened in the background and out of sight. The arc itself has been about Luffy saving Ace from the start. Luffy finding out Ace is going to be executed, Luffy deciding to go to Impel Down and save him, Luffy rampaging through Impel Down, Luffy conquering hardships and gaining allies to save Ace, Luffy escaping Impel Down towards Marine HQ to save Ace, Luffy, Luffy, Luffy. Only in the last few chapters did Whitebeard show up, but it didn't take long for Luffy to rejoin the fray and pick up where he left off.

In a way, Phenomenal is right in his saying that all the other characters have become tools for Luffy's success. After all, this Arc is, and has been from the very beginning, about Luffy saving Ace. However, Luffy cannot accomplish this alone, so he needs other characters to help him achieve this goal. Enter the other side characters.

Yes, I said it. Whitebeard is a side character. No matter how important he is in the One Piece world, from a story perspective he is a side character. The very point of side characters is to either provide character growth, help, impede, or dramatize the actions of the main characters.

I called it way back during the early stages of the Impel Down arc, but I expect Whitebeard and Luffy to either save Ace together, or Whitebeard to die during this arc and entrust his will to the next generation. Currently, in light of Ace's past and Whitebeard's reasons for taking him in, I am leaning towards the later. With Whitebeard dead, Ace will become the leader of the Whitebeard pirates, and a competitor with Luffy over the title of Pirate King.
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Old 2009-09-26, 09:39   Link #183
zrexe
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You guys have to realise that some people simply have tastes which is just plain whacko.

Let me give an example. Although 99.99% of the general population are put off by necrophilia, beastiality...etc, there's always that 0.01% of the populace who like shit like that.

Simply put, Phenom and that Moldy dude are part of this slice of people, in terms of manga. No matter what you say, you aren't going to convince them otherwise, so don't bother trying. Ignore them.

Just enjoy One Piece, and laugh at them for not having the fortune to be able to do so.

And of course, if you get bored you can flame these people once in a while, but it's nothing worth getting agitated about.
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Old 2009-09-26, 09:47   Link #184
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Why is it that every time a new chapter comes out, some idiot attempts to exploit a chapter's "flaws" to give themselves an ego boost?
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Old 2009-09-26, 11:39   Link #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
To me this would be some sort of plothole.
It was explained, that Luffy was trained during his childhood by Garp. If Garp really knew about Haki, then Luffy should at least be familiar with this concept. The sheer fact, that he doesn't have the slightest idea of it until Amazon Lily IMHO rules out the possibility thast Garp knows about it.
Plothole? After having cornered Roger so many times, and fought against him, do you really think that Garp has no knowledge about it. Forget about the rest, he is a Vice-admiral, if he won't know then who will? Only Sengoku? Anyway, I am sure he was aware of it for a very long time.

The training Luffy had with Garp was more like survival-based training. And, considering that haki appears during extremely emotional periods, don't you think Garp may actually be helping Luffy develop his own ability using those training methods? It is not like Luffy is capable of learning it through basic means of understanding. Garp should know him better than anyone else, except Ace maybe.

And, based on Iva's impression regarding Luffy, and comparing that to Dragon, it is highly likely that Dragon also has a Haki based strength. That means, Garp may also have it, understand it well enough to know what is the right way to teach someone like Luffy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yes, I said it. Whitebeard is a side character. No matter how important he is in the One Piece world, from a story perspective he is a side character. The very point of side characters is to either provide character growth, help, impede, or dramatize the actions of the main characters.
Yes, and he is still a much more crucial side character than Roger, the original pirate king. The importance of people, and their impact on others cannot be measured by how much screen time they get. Everyone has their own missions. Whitebeard is there to save Luffy, and that may be the only chance for us to see Whitebeard in near-full strength.

Some people should really be glad that Luffy has decided to save Ace. Otherwise, they would have only seen Whitebeard in their wet dreams.

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Originally Posted by zrexe View Post
Simply put, Phenom and that Moldy dude are part of this slice of people, in terms of manga.
Sharing even the same computer to echo those rarities...
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Old 2009-09-26, 12:09   Link #186
Prestige
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Sharing even the same computer to echo those rarities...
They have same IP?...Well if thats true then they really are one and same person... guy is using two accounts to back his own posts... I suspected but I doubt anyone could go so low...

You sure about them having same IP? They both are from LA and I think they atleast know each other outside internets but if they have same IP it must be one and only poster logging on two diffrent accounts...

I think this kind of behaviour deserves permanent ban...
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Old 2009-09-26, 12:26   Link #187
Fipskuul
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I am not a mod, so I cannot tell, and even then it is too easy to cheat such a system, as long as you are willing. Anyways, I am mainly talking about the impression he and his buddies give with their posts and writing styles, appearances and disappearances.
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Old 2009-09-26, 14:42   Link #188
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Also, Ace took the words right out of my mouth in this chapter. Luffy is such a weakling in comparison to these monsters
After some thought, I take back what I said here. I'm under the impression that Ace called Luffy weak because that is how he remembered him before he left and became a pirate. When looking at the Luffy back then, who even with his rubber fruit powers couldn't even beat Ace without his fire logia abilities, that statement is certainly true. However, little does Ace know that Luffy has grown substantially since then. It's simply wrong to call Luffy weak anymore at this point in the story (which is presumably half-way, if not further). Sure he has a while to go before he can compete with the elites, but the fact that he actually injured the beast with such a high fortitude for damage/pain (aka my man Blackbeard ) definitely indicates that he's no pushover. Blackbeard even commended him by saying that Luffy's stronger than he thought and that his Haki has improved since their last encounter. That does say something.
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Old 2009-09-26, 15:05   Link #189
andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
After some thought, I take back what I said here. I'm under the impression that Ace called Luffy weak because that is how he remembered him before he left and became a pirate. When looking at the Luffy back then, who even with his rubber fruit powers couldn't even beat Ace without his fire logia abilities, that statement is certainly true. However, little does Ace know that Luffy has grown substantially since then. It's simply wrong to call Luffy weak anymore at this point in the story (which is presumably half-way, if not further). Sure he has a while to go before he can compete with the elites, but the fact that he actually injured the beast with such a high fortitude for damage/pain (aka my man Blackbeard ) definitely indicates that he's no pushover. Blackbeard even commended him by saying that Luffy's stronger than he thought and that his Haki has improved since their last encounter. That does say something.


What ace said to luffy had nothing to do really with how how strong luffy was and more about him trying to get luffy to leave. We seen it count less times in any sort of story .

This a guy who has taken down 2 warlords , destroy or break into 2 marines strong holds and soon as he land in the War zone zip pass hina like she a joke and looks like he OHKO a giant .

First ace told WB and pirates to forget about him , now he is saying to his brother . Of course he can't call the WB pirates weak but he can say it to his brother even thought luffy has fair amount of power compare to some guys in the battle. But unlike them the enemy God tiers chars want to kill luffy. I mean to the marines luffy is a really big pain in the ass and longer he stay around the worst he might get.
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Old 2009-09-26, 15:26   Link #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatori View Post
A little late, but I found this hilarious so it's my favourite part of the chapter

Spoiler:
(Not really an address to the poster, but more of a comment inspired by the picture):

I'm still unsure whether I like Hancock or not. One one hand, I do think her character is fun (and cute) and endlessly amusing. I love when she gets all high and mighty, and I really like her actual disdain for most non-Amazon people/places/things. But, on the other hand, I really wanted a kickass cool female pirate to be the last Shichibukai, and while I definetly got the female part, "kickass" and "cool" are hardly modifers that can be used to describe Hancock.

Whatever the case, I am still very interested in her powers, and can't wait to see what she can do with Haki.
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Old 2009-09-26, 15:26   Link #191
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Luffy:hey I'm running the show Old man! and Croc Your my #1 b***h now. (Can't argue with that Blackbeard D Kuma.)
Can't argue with what? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
What ace said to luffy had nothing to do really with how how strong luffy was and more about him trying to get luffy to leave. We seen it count less times in any sort of story .
From Ace's perception, Luffy is weak. Consequently, he yelled at Luffy to not attempt to rescue him because it would be suicidal on his part, and because he found it embarrassing to have his inferior little brother come to save him. Everything I've said here is pretty much what Ace had said to Luffy.
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Old 2009-09-26, 15:43   Link #192
andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Can't argue with what? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.



From Ace's perception, Luffy is weak. Consequently, he yelled at Luffy to not attempt to rescue him because it would be suicidal on his part, and because he found it embarrassing to have his inferior little brother come to save him. Everything I've said here is pretty much what Ace had said to Luffy.
It was never about how strong luffy was and more about him wanting luffy to leave the battle so he might not die. Ace said every thing he could for luffy to leave. It never really about how strong he was ,no matter how strong your are in battle like this you can always die. I mean ace said those things after he was attack by a admiral , few marines .

The last line you see ace said to him self , is please luffy i don't want to drag you down with me , this is my mess. This line show ace is just want luffy to leave no matter what he does , he does not want he little brother to die with him.

You even see other members faces , this shows you they know how much ace care for his brother .

Then you see ace saying you don't understand which show he does not want luffy to die no matter what , even with all the things he said about him luffy still won't leave .

Last edited by andy; 2009-09-26 at 16:06.
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Old 2009-09-26, 15:52   Link #193
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
To me this would be some sort of plothole.
It was explained, that Luffy was trained during his childhood by Garp. If Garp really knew about Haki, then Luffy should at least be familiar with this concept. The sheer fact, that he doesn't have the slightest idea of it until Amazon Lily IMHO rules out the possibility thast Garp knows about it.



Fipskuul kinda already covered the question, but I wanted to respond to this, as well: I really don't think that Garp needed to tell Luffy about Haki. Why? Because remember, Haki is ambition/willpower. You can't really "teach" someone to have an ambition, can you? Garp put Luffy through harsh training in the hopes that he would become a great marine, but we all know that Luffy had a different dream in mind: Becoming Pirate King. Either way, you could say that the training was Garp's method of strengthening Luffy's resolve (or Haki), even if Luffy chose what he considers to be the least desirable path.......
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Old 2009-09-26, 17:21   Link #194
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
It was never about how strong luffy was and more about him wanting luffy to leave the battle so he might not die. Ace said every thing he could for luffy to leave. It never really about how strong he was ,no matter how strong your are in battle like this you can always die. I mean ace said those things after he was attack by a admiral , few marines .

The last line you see ace said to him self , is please luffy i don't want to drag you down with me , this is my mess. This line show ace is just want luffy to leave no matter what he does , he does not want he little brother to die with him.

You even see other members faces , this shows you they know how much ace care for his brother .

Then you see ace saying you don't understand which show he does not want luffy to die no matter what , even with all the things he said about him luffy still won't leave .
In the end, yes Ace was telling Luffy to get the hell out of there since they have a strong brotherly bond and he deeply cares about Luffy's well being. Ace doesn't want his little brother to die for something he is not at fault for, and I understand all of that. I was just pointing out that the part where Ace calls Luffy a weakling is erroneous because he is referring to the Luffy back then in comparison to the Luffy right now.
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Old 2009-09-26, 17:39   Link #195
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
In the end, yes Ace was telling Luffy to get the hell out of there since they have a strong brotherly bond and he deeply cares about Luffy's well being. Ace doesn't want his little brother to die for something he is not at fault for, and I understand all of that. I was just pointing out that the part where Ace calls Luffy a weakling is erroneous because he is referring to the Luffy back then in comparison to the Luffy right now.
Yes but that has no meaning , he saying that to get his brother to leave . Maybe what he says is what he means but we will never know because all that was said to get luffy to leave.
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Old 2009-09-26, 19:39   Link #196
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Yes but that has no meaning , he saying that to get his brother to leave . Maybe what he says is what he means but we will never know because all that was said to get luffy to leave.
That has no meaning? Oda had Ace say that for a reason besides trying to persuade Luffy to leave the battlefield. Luffy is not on the same level as the big threats acting on behalf of the WG. That is a fact, and Oda simply emphasized this point by making Ace outright say it.
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Old 2009-09-26, 20:58   Link #197
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
That has no meaning? Oda had Ace say that for a reason besides trying to persuade Luffy to leave the battlefield. Luffy is not on the same level as the big threats acting on behalf of the WG. That is a fact, and Oda simply emphasized this point by making Ace outright say it.
That is what you feel . I see it as ace telling luffy what ever he can so he can leave. . Oda did not need ace to say that we already knew that from WB saying it just a chapter ago. Oda had ace say those things to show that no matter what ace says about luffy even if he insult him he won't leave the battle , he going to try save his bother even at cost of his life.

Any way we don't see things the same way so let call it a day .
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:22   Link #198
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Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just noticed that Phenomenal and Master Mold have both been banned. Now, I have a sneaking suspicion that someone or a few people on here snitched on them. All I'm going to say is, come on guys. If someone disagrees with your perspective and you feel you can't convince them to have a different viewpoint (especially if they're stubborn), then stop arguing period. This is only the internet, and some people here treat it as if it is serious business. Give me a break. We're merely discussing a Japanese comic and when someone happens to have an opinion that conflicts with everyone else's, people feel the need to gang up on them. For our discussions, having complete harmony/agreement amongst everyone is nearly impossible because it is all subjective. Everyone has different tastes, and that needs to be realized. It was also very disrespectful for some of the members to have insulted them as well. I'm not going to mention any names, but you know who you are.

Xris, if you're reading this, please give them a second chance. I'll have a talk with them and tell them to express their opinions in a less aggressive/hostile manner from now on, so as to not incite any heated debates. The last things we need here are tension and friction amongst our community.
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:50   Link #199
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...come on. We know Ace said those things cause it's a FACT Luffy without any help wouldd get OWNED in a second. No questions asked. 5 Schibukais, 3 Admirals, and others who might give Luffy a hard time. Without Ivankov, Luffy would be out cold right now.

Did you not see Oars Jr. get owned? Yeah it's a bit different since he's like a super giant but still just get the admirals or some Schibukais on Luffy and he's over.
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Old 2009-09-26, 22:59   Link #200
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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...come on. We know Ace said those things cause it's a FACT Luffy without any help wouldd get OWNED in a second. No questions asked. 5 Schibukais, 3 Admirals, and others who might give Luffy a hard time. Without Ivankov, Luffy would be out cold right now.

Did you not see Oars Jr. get owned? Yeah it's a bit different since he's like a super giant but still just get the admirals or some Schibukais on Luffy and he's over.
Quoted for truth. This is all that needs to be said. Luffy is very fortunate to have the aid of Ivankov, Jimbei, and Marco right now. Without them, he would be a goner. He's even lucky to be participating in this war.
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