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Old 2009-09-25, 13:38   Link #141
ashesatdusk
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Why is one piece so amazing? Like really. I don't think any jump manga matches to its quality. I read or still read and liked naruto, bleach, hunter x hunter, shaman king, dragon ball. I don't think i find anything nearly as creative or refreshing as OP.


I personally think that Oda's focus on luffy, and having all eyes on him is more or less logical and consistent with the portrayal in the story. Luffy has almost always been recognized in the story by the old gaurd (Roger Era pirates) as someone with amazing potential. The only people who don't recognize that potential were generally his enemies. He's that genius inspirational kid in a field where few survive the one kid that might go somewhere in a field. Like most shonen archetype those kids are always cocky (chatting to white beard as an equal). It isn't that surprising that their superiors show a certain amount of fight.

I also think luffy isn't at a level where he can be considered total weakling he's defeated 2 of the shichibukai who are also present.


What interests me is the balance of power seems to be fading. It seems like the way the story goes, Ace is likely to be saved. Whitebeard is likely to fall sometime soon. Luffy will be propelled up, and the shichibukai seems like its going to fall apart. 3 of its members are almost outright against WG. (BOA, Black beard, Kuma). Jimbei quit.
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Old 2009-09-25, 13:48   Link #142
Phenomenal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Umh...in Dragon Ball and Naruto, the big dogs are the main characters. In One Piece, Luffy is not the biggest or the bestest (yet), he is the middle-level character that is fighting in the big leagues due to his will and desire to save his beloved brother. So, your comparison doesn't make much sense, and any complaint you may draw from such a superficial comparisson is ultimately incorrect...
Pain is a main character? Cell? Go look at the battles again, so you can understand what I'm talking about. Those heavy hitters got busy IN THEIR ARCS from the gates, While Oda has his sitting there playing RPG.

Quote:
Uhm, maybe you forgot Oars? He was the big guy that worked for Whitebeard, had a stupid look on his face...wore a hat; you should remember that he charged right out to the front of the fight knocking over the Vice-Admiral giants all the way, until he reached the execution platform where he was viciously killed (well, supposedly killed...he did lose a leg though, and at least a lung) by the Shichibukai. So...your complaint is invalid because what you are complaining about as having not happened, has in fact happened...
And maybe you didn't read this post and purposely ignored it..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal
LULZ, Oars doesn't have elite commanders under him and he doesn't have quake powers that can shatter Admirals on point! I'm not just talking Whitebeard here I'm talking Whitebeard pirates...Yet we got retarded Luffy charging in [With back up from whitebeard pirates] and now you say whitebeard can't do the same with all the back up he's brought?

ahahahahahaha
Quote:
Which they've already done, and are still doing...or do you think all the pictures of characters fighting is just the marines practicing on each other what there going to do to Whitebeard and his 'family'?
Cannon fodder cannon fodder..Show me where the big boys are doing what Luffy is doing. One move and stop don't count..

Sup James
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Old 2009-09-25, 13:58   Link #143
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Pain is a main character? Cell? Go look at the battles again, so you can understand what I'm talking about. Those heavy hitters got busy IN THEIR ARCS from the gates, While Oda has his sitting there playing RPG.
Huh? Those are main villains that were doing attacks on their respective arcs.and neither Pain or Cell, nor freiza, nor______ (put villain name there) showed all their powers the first time around. Whitebeard and Company are been introduced with a glimpse of what they can do as the story is not focused on any one particular of them. Just like We saw Neeji the first time he fought, or Rock Lee the first time he fought., Or in Bleach, Shinsui when he fought Chad in Soul Society

Actually, from a Shonen perspective this is what it is usually done. You keep these people powers in hush for long, heck, Is possible you wont see someone as Whitebeard actually having an all out Vs. fight in this entire series.

I think Phenom what you are asking here is more for Fanservice than what you claimed that putting Luffy here was Fanservise.
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Old 2009-09-25, 14:04   Link #144
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And here it is now the World powers arc...It's time to throw down. Cell Games, Cell went out against Goku right off the bat, the pain invasion arc, Pain got busy immediately. No different in this war, where this is suppose to be the main powers stage who tried to get busy but stopped and decided to take pics of Luffy..fanservice.
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Old 2009-09-25, 14:14   Link #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Pain is a main character? Cell? Go look at the battles again, so you can understand what I'm talking about. Those heavy hitters got busy IN THEIR ARCS from the gates, While Oda has his sitting there playing RPG.
Pardon me, I though you were making a very bad comparison between Goku, Naruto, and Luffy.

That being said, I don't understand. Whitebeard "got busy" (god that sounds stupid) in his first chapter...or ddi you forget the giant tidal wave that nearly killed everyone? And right after that were constant bearing of claws and ganshing of teeth by several of the big dogs until Oars made a break for Ace and he was promptly butchered (which is what would have happened to Whitebeard or Marco).

So, once again, your complaint is simply fallacious, and for someone that claims to only be "reporting" what happens in any particular chapter, you sure have selective memory as well as a fond appreciation for editing events to fit your pre-exsisting bias...

The war may not be what you wanted (I can't really argue against how you predetermined this war should play out, though I can point out that what you want doesn't matter to the actual story being told (don't you use that line every other post in the Bleach subforum)), but for you to claim that Whitebeard and company haven't been fighting, when literally anyone that looks through these images can see they have been, is simply silly.

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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
And maybe you didn't read this post and purposely ignored it..
How can I not read it, but also purposely ignore it? It's either one or the other, but not both...

"sigh", your line of reasoning for why the current chapters are "bad" is that Whitebeard and company aren't charging forward like Luffy is in this chapter. So, of course, we (myself and several other posters) pointed out the instance where one of Whitebeard's men charges forward.

In the end, you are arguing non-canonical information (Oars placement in the ranks) to prove a non-exsistent point (no-one important is charging forward). We do not know how important or unimportant Oars is to the Whitebeard crew, he could be the 5 or 6th most powerful for all we know. But, even if he was the weakest, it wouldn't matter because your line of argument is centered around any of Whitebeard and his company charging forward. Consequently, you have been proven wrong.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
And here it is now the World powers arc...It's time to throw down. Cell Games, Cell went out against Goku right off the bat, the pain invasion arc, Pain got busy immediately. No different in this war, where this is suppose to be the main powers stage who tried to get busy but stopped and decided to take pics of Luffy..fanservice.
Except, Cell and Pain were one character, whereas the Big Dogs in the One Piece universe have thousands of supporting characters...so completely different situations...
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Old 2009-09-25, 14:18   Link #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
^And here it is now the World powers arc...It's time to throw down. Cell Games, Cell went out against Goku right off the bat, the pain invasion arc, Pain got busy immediately. No different in this war, where this is suppose to be the main powers stage who tried to get busy but stopped and decided to take pics of Luffy..
Ahhhh, actually it didnít went like that, Cell went to various transformation before fighting Goku, and not until he fought Gohan that we saw all of his powers. Pain fought Jiriaya first, and he only did Half of what he was capable of when he fought In Konoha.

This is not really the world power ARC, this is the rescue Ace arc which started in Impel Down and the climax was set-up to be here. we only are seen a transitions between places

Whitebeard already showed a glimpse of what he is capable of, There is no character there intended to fight whitebeard directly, he is not a Principal character where the author can have the luxury to throw at him a Named Villain. Unless the Author just want to make someone defeating him and establish a villain power (which With Whitebeard I doubt it happens).

Everyone of the named Villain in this war has an intended fate with a Principal character, except maybe for Moira, who had his own Arc and was defeated already, so his relevance in the story has been diminished. And can now bee used as Canon Fodder just like Cocodrile.

Again the main difference here is that Both Pain and Cell where villains, whereas The whiteberd crew are presented as the good guys in this arc.
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Old 2009-09-25, 14:24   Link #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Pardon me, I though you were making a very bad comparison between Goku, Naruto, and Luffy.

That being said, I don't understand. Whitebeard "got busy" (god that sounds stupid) in his first chapter...or ddi you forget the giant tidal wave that nearly killed everyone? And right after that were constant bearing of claws and ganshing of teeth by several of the big dogs until Oars made a break for Ace and he was promptly butchered (which is what would have happened to Whitebeard or Marco).

So, once again, your complaint is simply fallacious, and for someone that claims to only be "reporting" what happens in any particular chapter, you sure have selective memory as well as a fond appreciation for editing events to fit your pre-exsisting bias...

The war may not be what you wanted (I can't really argue against how you predetermined this war should play out, though I can point out that what you want doesn't matter to the actual story being told (don't you use that line every other post in the Bleach subforum)), but for you to claim that Whitebeard and company haven't been fighting, when literally anyone that looks through these images can see they have been, is simply silly.
So you call Whitebeard standing and only throwing out a few attacks fighting?
James you ever play Street fighter vidoe games??


Quote:
How can I not read it, but also purposely ignore it? It's either one or the other, but not both...

"sigh", your line of reasoning for why the current chapters are "bad" is that Whitebeard and company aren't charging forward like Luffy is in this chapter. So, of course, we (myself and several other posters) pointed out the instance where one of Whitebeard's men charges forward.

In the end, you are arguing non-canonical information (Oars placement in the ranks) to prove a non-exsistent point (no-one important is charging forward). We do not know how important or unimportant Oars is to the Whitebeard crew, he could be the 5 or 6th most powerful for all we know. But, even if he was the weakest, it wouldn't matter because your line of argument is centered around any of Whitebeard and his company charging forward. Consequently, you have been proven wrong.
I didn't say cannon fodder [Oars] I said Whitebeard and his dang elites charging forth like Luffy. You can't even grasp this.

Quote:
Except, Cell and Pain were one character, whereas the Big Dogs in the One Piece universe have thousands of supporting characters...so completely different situations...
No, it's not cause cannon fodder is for cannon fodder and big names are for big names. Oda just has his big names standing and pumping Luffy up.

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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Ahhhh, actually it didn’t went like that, Cell went to various transformation before fighting Goku, and not until he fought Gohan that we saw all of his powers. Pain fought Jiriaya first, and he only did Half of what he was capable of when he fought In Konoha.

This is not really the world power ARC, this is the rescue Ace arc which started in Impel Down and the climax was set-up to be here. we only are seen a transitions between places

Whitebeard already showed a glimpse of what he is capable of, There is no character there intended to fight whitebeard directly, he is not a Principal character where the author can have the luxury to throw at him a Named Villain. Unless the Author just want to make someone defeating him and establish a villain power (which With Whitebeard I doubt it happens).

Everyone of the named Villain in this war has an intended fate with a Principal character, except maybe for Moira, who had his own Arc and was defeated already, so his relevance in the story has been diminished. And can now bee used as Canon Fodder just like Cocodrile.

Again the main difference here is that Both Pain and Cell where villains, whereas The whiteberd crew are presented as the good guys in this arc.
With the Government as the villains [Kizaru Shichibukai ect]...Whitebeard has to get through them to get to ace and he ain't doing it but he's letting Luffy do it...
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Old 2009-09-25, 14:33   Link #148
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
With the Government as the villains [Kizaru Shichibukai ect]...Whitebeard has to get through them to get to ace and he ain't doing it but he's letting Luffy do it...
But that is the point actually, Oda is not going to put whitebeard go and have an actual fight, He is going to be used to work in the background, taking out no names characters as the story progreses.

I guess you can see him as Captain Yamamoto from Bleach (until the point I left the Manga) He was a strong presence, but one that we havent seen actually fighting (Again, up to the last chapter I saw, he didnt had a fight) I can dare and say like Jiriaya, were it took us 300+ chapters to see him at true force or Itachi for that matter.
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Old 2009-09-25, 14:41   Link #149
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And that's the problem...While Luffy takes his Glory when Whitebeard should be the one taking care of his business going after the big names wit hhis Elites not pause and stop like they did chapters ago.
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Old 2009-09-25, 14:57   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
And that's the problem...While Luffy takes his Glory when Whitebeard should be the one taking care of his business going after the big names wit hhis Elites not pause and stop like they did chapters ago.
Well, I understood since I begun reading your post that this is your problem with the story right now, I myself don't like principal characters steeling the show from side characters (well...I actually don't like that much Shonen Principal characters), but as Shonen readers these are the sort of things that we have to get used to.

But, to be honest, and is possible I said it in older threads, is that I never envisioned Whitebeard to have real cengtersatge like the one you are asking for. heck, everyone of us Knew that sooner or later that Luffy was going to reach the center stage.
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Old 2009-09-25, 15:02   Link #151
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How the heck do you call World power members fodder? and how will their fights and moves be meaningless? You make no sense.
And how the heck do you call Luffy fodder?

And was Akainu magma fist meaningful to the story? Or Boa kiss shot? Or Hawk's "strength test"? Did they hurt anyone named? Will those moves affect the battle in any ways?

Quote:
Cannon fodder cannon fodder..
Wait, you call them cannon fodder yourself...
Quote:
No you are terribly wrong, Luffy pulls powers out of his cheeks all the time so please just stop. and the Big boys should have been fighting [They been here for five chapters]
Five chapters but it depicted 10 minutes.

Luffy hardly pulls mega power out of the air. He pulls out damage ENDURANCE. Which triumph character's will power that apparently every fighting shounen manga out there have.

I talks about manga's time, you dodge it and talk about number of chapters. You said I was wrong about Luffy with no explanation.

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hell Akira Toriyama allowed his big boys to get busy from the gates, So did Kishimoto!!
But those fights do not happen in a war. Not one at this scale.

Quote:
A war is a messy brawl...Especially from so called scallywag pirates.
Huge misconception. You are talking about a gang fight, not a war with thousands of people.

Quote:
They aren't doing anything but standing there watching Luffy and backing him up.
And how can Luffy survives without backup? I raised this point and you dodge it again.

And What they did (Iva winked once, Jimbei took on an opponent that he would have an advantage) I consider hardly backup. I said that, but you just said "no, it's backup," without whatsoever explanation again.

Quote:
That main character excuse is so lame..
So you want Luffy has no part in this war? Or doing something so worthless not even worth to draw? So you want to not see the main character in action when his brother is being executed, only have the big names fight and leave Luffy out for 25 chapters more till the war ended?

And I said it's logical to have the big names come to the stage later than the cannon fodder. How about drawing the cannon fodder first (luffy) and draw the big shots several chapters later? (And don't say: they already be there for 5 chapters, you will just dodge my points that the time interval is short in the manga again) How about saying where that is wrong also? Don't just dodge it.

Quote:
He did it to Ace besides That wasn't my main point of my post, you ignored that part.
Ace attacked Whitebeard. Luffy tried to protect him. And Luffy is acquaintance's acquaintance. Ace was a stranger.

And this is not my main point either. What did I ignore?
Quote:
He should have been had Whitebeard pirates try to do what Luffy's doing right now chapters ago not become the tools for the mai ncharacter lol, terible fanservice.
The heck your talking about. I've been saying it's stupid and kinda impossible to have such a huge brawl drawn out nicely. How about YOU tell us how such a brawl should be depicted? I asked you to do that, and you, again, just dodge what you cannot answer.

Also, how about YOU tell us how will Whitebeard recklessly jump in the middle of 3 admirals and 5 shichibukai and save Ace and come back alive.

Quote:
cause cannon fodder is for cannon fodder and big names are for big names
Who made that rule? Again, you have no explanation.

I said that it is logical for him use cannon fodder to occupy enemy's big names, to wait and observe. How about explain why that's wrong instead of ignoring it?

You Just dodge what you cannot argue, again.

If all you said is how bad it is, but cannot describe properly how should the manga have gone, and can only say in general "whitebeard should have done his job blah blah blah..." just stop talking.

I'm waiting for you to recite your same argument without any backup and ignore mine again without whatsoever explanation

Last edited by Cinocard; 2009-09-25 at 15:48.
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Old 2009-09-25, 15:16   Link #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
How the heck do you call World power members fodder?
you compare them to whitebeard XD
Quote:
They aren't doing anything but standing there watching Luffy and backing him up. That main character excuse is so lame..
No, whitebeard is the only one standing around, the rest have been fighting
Oda can't show us every detail, but we have seen Marco and Jozu trading blows with admirals and shichibukai... we have even seen one of the other commanders fighting and getting owned by Doflamingo... just because we do not see what they are doing at the moment does not mean they are doing nothing... seriously, unless you want this war to be twice as many chapters long as it's really beeen, you have to accept that fighting is going on of screen... this is where anime filler will be very useful actually

I mean we may not see Ao kiji at the moment, but does that means he's just chilling, or does it mean he's fighting and taking out pirates?
Hell we haven't seen much Vice admrial action out of the ones we saw lined up early on, but we can be sure they are fighting

Whitebeard is the ONLY one who is not fighting
Quote:
hell Akira Toriyama allowed his big boys to get busy from the gates
you don't remember DBZ very well do you?

Saiyan saga... MANY chapters of nappa vs DBZ minor characters before we finally got to Goku vs Vegeta

Freeza Saga... MANY chapters of Gohan and Krillan... Vegeta was there too but all they did was fight minions.... how long did we have to wait for freeza to actually get into action? much less how long until Goku vs Freeza

Android saga... had to go though Dr.Gero and number whatever before they got to 17 and 18... and hell they weren't even the main villians of that arc... you mention Cell, but even Cell stalled for time... instead of jumping right into battle with his complete form, he had the Cell jrs fight first before he jumped into the ring

The big guys always fought LAST when there were minor characters to fight

True kishimoto gets to the big guys fast... however he also doesn't include much on minor characters... i mean, atasuki supposedly has minions but none of them are used for fighting... without minions or many minor characters, kishi can get to the big guys right away... however, unlike Akatsuki, whitebeard and Sengoku DO have minions and minor characters
Quote:
LULZ, Oars doesn't have elite commanders under him and he doesn't have quake powers that can shatter Admirals on point! I'm not just talking Whitebeard here I'm talking Whitebeard pirates...Yet we got retarded Luffy charging in [With back up from whitebeard pirates] and now you say whitebeard can't do the same with all the back up he's brought?
And do you think the whitebeard pirates are enough to just storm the place...
Marco has shown himself able to counter an admiral, Jozu can counter a shichibukai... but what about the rest? Are the other commanders enough to counter the other 2 admirals, and 4 shichibukai? We know that one of them is being beaten pretty effortlessly by Doflamingo... And hell what of the vice admirals; if the commanders move to counter the admirals and schikibukai, then the vice admirals might move in to counter them and thus leaving Whitebeard open for atleast a triple team... Hell, even if the other commanders could create an opening for Whitebeard to get to Ace; Sen Goku might have a team of Pacifistas waiting behind the platform to blast him to kingdom-come... As i said above, the whitebeards ARE already fighting and pushing through; Whitebeard is the only one shown standing by doing nothing


And shattering Ao kiji isn't really that big of a deal... Luffy was able to do it to... It all part of being a logia; instead of taking damage from a punch, Ao kiji shatters and takes no damage at all... really, all whitebeard did was inconvience him
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Old 2009-09-25, 15:22   Link #153
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Luffy is rushing like a dog, like always. But this time he is going nowhere.

Whitebeard's comment to Marco indicated it.

Meh, i don't like it too much i must admit.

If it is animated right, it should be much more enjoyable.
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Old 2009-09-25, 15:41   Link #154
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It's good to see Luffy rush in and it not solve his problems. He's not gonna get far here. The assumption that he is rushing in and that it is the RIGHT thing to do seems a misinterpretation.

This battle is set out as a chess game - you can't go right for the king from the beginning.

Whitebeard knows a trap has been set but can only speculate as to what it is. No wonder he doesn't want to rush in and get killed.

He is clearly amused by Luffy, which is why he is willing to help him. Ultimately, though, he is using him as a chesspiece.
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Old 2009-09-25, 15:48   Link #155
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He is letting luffy spring the trap, basicly and he is hoping that his first division commander can change it from being most likely a fatal trap to helping luffy survive.
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Old 2009-09-25, 15:59   Link #156
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I'd like to point out something:

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Cool chapter. It sounds like Dragon is attacking, or otherwise causing trouble on the Shabondy Archipelago.
Any idea when this happend in this chapter?
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Old 2009-09-25, 16:08   Link #157
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i think people are misinterperting the small section where the reporter is saying "get me HQ this is major."
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Old 2009-09-25, 16:32   Link #158
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
So you call Whitebeard standing and only throwing out a few attacks fighting?
James you ever play Street fighter vidoe games??
Your comparing a one-on-one 9 minute (at most) battle game with what is supposed to be a 30-50 chapter war and has 100,000 plus participants? No wonder you are not having fun if your attention span is so short that anything over 9 minutes equals instant garbage to you...

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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
I didn't say cannon fodder [Oars] I said Whitebeard and his dang elites charging forth like Luffy. You can't even grasp this.
Why is Oars cannon fodder? Because he was defeated by 3 Shichibukai ? I'm sorry, you're just making shit up to validate your pre-existing opinion. Again, for all we know Oars was 5th or 6th strongest member of Whitebeard's crew, he simply wasn't given a position of authority due to his recklessness. Oars role in the story was to show just why Whitebeard and Marco can't just charge onto the execution platform. Sadly enough, you are too interested in the "OMG! It Blowed Up Real Good!" superfical power display to actually care to look any deeper...which shouldn't be that surprising considering that you use Goku as your avatar...

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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
No, it's not cause cannon fodder is for cannon fodder and big names are for big names. Oda just has his big names standing and pumping Luffy up.
Spoiler for DBZ and Naruto spoilers...:

Last edited by james0246; 2009-09-25 at 16:51.
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Old 2009-09-25, 17:07   Link #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Why is Oars cannon fodder? Because he was defeated by 3 Shichibukai ? I'm sorry, you're just making shit up to validate your pre-existing opinion. Again, for all we know Oars was 5th or 6th strongest member of Whitebeard's crew, he simply wasn't given a position of authority due to his recklessness. Oars role in the story was to show just why Whitebeard and Marco can't just charge onto the execution platform. Sadly enough, you are too interested in the "OMG! It Blowed Up Real Good!" superfical power display to actually care to look any deeper...which shouldn't be that surprising considering that you use Goku as your avatar...
Acutally, i think Oars Jr. was a pirate captain in his own right,,, he had what looked like his own ship, with his own jolly roger and was referred to as captain instead of commander... moria's comment could be a misinterpretation or something to point out Oar's obvious loyalty to whitebeard
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Old 2009-09-25, 17:14   Link #160
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These last pages has been bit pointless...

Phenomenom is very succesfull troll and even when I ignored him after losing all patience with him, now everyone is arguing with him and quoting his every sentence...

Recently it feels like its always like Phenomenom vs Animesuki members...

We come here to discuss recent chapters but after just couple pages our local troll Phenomenom emerges and starts his every weekly shitstorm and other members want to defend themselfs or just cant stand his ridicilous statesments any further and starts to argue with him.

I used to enjoy seeing people crushing Phenomenon in argumenting but he is so damn stubborn and ignorant that its just wasting pages.

Everyone should just leave Phenomenom in his misery, arguing with him is just what he wants...

Having an good argument is always nice and one of basic pleasures in forums, but having an argument is also pointless is other guy is refuses to listen or even consider what other is saying...
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