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Old 2012-06-01, 23:55   Link #2181
tsunade666
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we are not here to read some stupid dumbsel in distress

his is the disciple of that freaking guy who just go trash murim and even in first season he goes against them and he is GAR! and look at his current state >_> he is a lot worst now than before.
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Old 2012-06-02, 00:17   Link #2182
Iron Maw
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Isn't "head-long rushes" the usual plan for most of Shioon's fights anyway? I have bigger issue with him stupidly attempting to challenge the Doc when he's just recovered and nearly squandering the efforts Sera took to save him.

On other things, I also don't see how turning off the lights will help the Doc against a Master like Sera. A martial artist of her skill are normal trained to use far more then their eyes to detect and counter an enemy. His "Night Vision" should not be able to make up for the gap in skill.
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Old 2012-06-02, 01:19   Link #2183
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Well, well looks like the Shioon complaining party already started............. aren't you guys just repeating the same thing over and over again? It's sorta tiresome.



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Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
So you cannot make a conclusion yourself as the audience?
It's pretty obvious that Azure Preist likes Shioon. Stop setting up a flame bait.


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Originally Posted by Airaku View Post
I don't think anyone was calling shion ďstupidĒ because he didn't run away. Running away would actually be stupid for a number of reasons. The idiocy is that he rushed in without a plan. If he had actually seen an opening (as you say) then why was he stabbed and nearly killed almost effortlessly. Also, I find it hard believe that having Sera save him from the death blow was somehow part of his master plan. He did not see an opening. Is it even possible to see an opening at that distance and when you have no idea what enemy's fighting style is like? Not to mention, doc was the one who announced his presence, he didn't run into them while sleepwalking. He was ready for them, yet shion ran straight in screaming bloody murder. If shion had been more cautious he would have found out doc had some knifes up his sleeve and likes to stab people with them. Instead, he went right at tiger mouth and nearly got his head chewed off. If it werenít for Sera heíd be dead.
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Isn't "head-long rushes" the usual plan for most of Shioon's fights anyway? I have bigger issue with him stupidly attempting to challenge the Doc when he's just recovered and nearly squandering the efforts Sera took to save him.
Eh, even some people that really dislike Shioon consider his reckless charge this time justified. I mean the doc basically admited that he tried to kill Shioon's mother and even mocked Shioon about it. Would you keep calm if someone put your mother in coma, mocked your powerless and then to add salt to a wound tried to dissect you? Plus he just recovered from a severe blood loss so he isn't really thinking rationally.
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Old 2012-06-02, 02:44   Link #2184
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Log View Post
Eh, even some people that really dislike Shioon consider his reckless charge this time justified. I mean the doc basically admited that he tried to kill Shioon's mother and even mocked Shioon about it. Would you keep calm if someone put your mother in coma, mocked your powerless and then to add salt to a wound tried to dissect you? Plus he just recovered from a severe blood loss so he isn't really thinking rationally.
Actually, I'm one of those who likes (or still likes) Shioon and I find his current weakness understandable.

But like I said before, Shioon charging opponents without a plan isn't what bothering me especially considering what the Doc did. It's that he still doesn't realize that he can't do much of anything at the moment after getting stabbed like 5 times and floored. Shioon is just playing into Doc's hands by letting him stall for time while he get's nearly killed again. He can't get revenge for his mother if he's dead.
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Old 2012-06-02, 02:52   Link #2185
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Isn't "head-long rushes" the usual plan for most of Shioon's fights anyway? I have bigger issue with him stupidly attempting to challenge the Doc when he's just recovered and nearly squandering the efforts Sera took to save him.
Well "head-long rushes" are his usual plan and worked out alright when he still had his ki center. But now that his ki center is broke, is it too much to ask that at some point he learns to adapt. Learn to use some caution, assess the opponent/situation, vary attack patterns, blab blab, bob and weave, etc. etc. But like most kids his age he's letting his emotions take over and the result is a predictable unidirectional haymaker that's easily dodge or countered. In this last chapter, Shion used about as much tact as the incredible hulk does. Except that the hulk is unstoppable mass of muscle and shion is skinny asian kid with above average physical abilities.

I don't really have problem with him trying to challenge doc, only that he did so rashly and by himself. Shion's more than entitled to his revenge here, but it would have been better if he had shown a tiny hint of self control. Ideally, I would have liked to him and sera attack cooperatively in whatever capacity.

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Originally Posted by Log View Post
Eh, even some people that really dislike Shioon consider his reckless charge this time justified. I mean the doc basically admited that he tried to kill Shioon's mother and even mocked Shioon about it. Would you keep calm if someone put your mother in coma, mocked your powerless and then to add salt to a wound tried to dissect you? Plus he just recovered from a severe blood loss so he isn't really thinking rationally.
I've said this before, but he should know better by now. He's been in this same situation before even if the amount of duress involved is different. He even had a couple hours bleeding out on a table to come to grips with his helplessness. Charging in reckless does not work because he doesn't have power to back it up. Having just recovered from blood loss would be a great excuse, but itís been emphasized he recovered quickly from the blood loss.

The best excuse would be that he is still a teen and that it wouldn't be unnatural for a teen to act recklessly. But a major quality in what defines the hero of the story is the ability to be more mature than society requires you to be. Being a kid that overcame bullying made him a respectable and likeable character. But some of that respect is now consequentially being diminished in light of shion recent recklessness.

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Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
Meh, it's all just fair weather hate no matter what anyone says anyways. All he has to do is have Shioon win a fight or two and they'll all happily throw him a party. That's what I find funny about it all...
You're absolutely right. Once he starts winning on his own again I won't have anything to complain about. Truthfully, I still like shion, I'm just disappointed by the last chapter. I'm waiting patiently for the breaker to get exciting again and the amount of waiting is getting cumbersome. Is it just me or does every chapter feel so short, more so that other manga/manwha.
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Old 2012-06-02, 03:16   Link #2186
Xaturas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Log View Post
Eh, even some people that really dislike Shioon consider his reckless charge this time justified. I mean the doc basically admited that he tried to kill Shioon's mother and even mocked Shioon about it. Would you keep calm if someone put your mother in coma, mocked your powerless and then to add salt to a wound tried to dissect you? Plus he just recovered from a severe blood loss so he isn't really thinking rationally.
Actually yes I would. First thing I would go to my base aka Sun-Wo. Think of a plan how to fuc that man life as best as I could. Find his familly, find his clan familly. And kill/rape/burn/throw to river/*add other tortures here* all of his family and clan.
Of course as for the man himself fuc him as far as possible.
I think torture used on Griffith in Berserk would be the best.
"Cutting out muscles from the body over long period of time without killing the host, so that he would become a limp of flesh not able to do anything"

That's what I would do. But heck its me real life person not a shounen hero moron who runs and try to work it out with his fists, while being on the death bed himself.
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Old 2012-06-02, 05:33   Link #2187
Kleeyook
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You know, if he went to Sun Woo Clan to ask for their help to get revenge on the doctor, then it wouldn't make him satisfied as much as beating the shit out of the doctor in front of him right now, when the doctor is so confident and arrogant with a god am I attitude.
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Old 2012-06-02, 08:44   Link #2188
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Eh. He hasn't hit rock bottom till Saehae's the one who saves him. So, a dozen chapters or so?
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Old 2012-06-02, 09:07   Link #2189
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Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
You seriously believe what you are saying ... ?

Most of the time Shion behave like the last moron, or a monkey after lobotomy. Just because things sometimes work in his way is probably thanks to author Mangaka No Jutsu and Plot no Armor.
Normally he wouldn't survive few days in murim world, and thats why most people are fed up with him. That dude is all the time saved by lady luck, you can give him that. But him smart? No way not even a chance.
ahhhh.. but on the contrary his your so called "idiot" because the author made him so

so that "mangaka no jutsu" works either way..
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Old 2012-06-02, 11:35   Link #2190
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Actually, I'm one of those who likes (or still likes) Shioon and I find his current weakness understandable.

But like I said before, Shioon charging opponents without a plan isn't what bothering me especially considering what the Doc did. It's that he still doesn't realize that he can't do much of anything at the moment after getting stabbed like 5 times and floored. Shioon is just playing into Doc's hands by letting him stall for time while he get's nearly killed again. He can't get revenge for his mother if he's dead.
Shioon is a emotional person so it would be bad writing to make him calm after the docters whole "I killed your mother" speech. It's obvious that all this is to make Shioon undergo character development.

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Originally Posted by Airaku View Post
Well "head-long rushes" are his usual plan and worked out alright when he still had his ki center. But now that his ki center is broke, is it too much to ask that at some point he learns to adapt. Learn to use some caution, assess the opponent/situation, vary attack patterns, blab blab, bob and weave, etc. etc. But like most kids his age he's letting his emotions take over and the result is a predictable unidirectional haymaker that's easily dodge or countered. In this last chapter, Shion used about as much tact as the incredible hulk does. Except that the hulk is unstoppable mass of muscle and shion is skinny asian kid with above average physical abilities.

I don't really have problem with him trying to challenge doc, only that he did so rashly and by himself. Shion's more than entitled to his revenge here, but it would have been better if he had shown a tiny hint of self control. Ideally, I would have liked to him and sera attack cooperatively in whatever capacity.

I've said this before, but he should know better by now. He's been in this same situation before even if the amount of duress involved is different. He even had a couple hours bleeding out on a table to come to grips with his helplessness. Charging in reckless does not work because he doesn't have power to back it up. Having just recovered from blood loss would be a great excuse, but itís been emphasized he recovered quickly from the blood loss.

The best excuse would be that he is still a teen and that it wouldn't be unnatural for a teen to act recklessly. But a major quality in what defines the hero of the story is the ability to be more mature than society requires you to be. Being a kid that overcame bullying made him a respectable and likeable character. But some of that respect is now consequentially being diminished in light of shion recent recklessness.
I agree that he's being stupid but it's also understandable that he would be upset and emotional over someone putting his mother into coma. Plus the whole "I'll dissect you and sell out your organ" thing.

Even after someone recovers from blood loss there ability to think is still hindered. Of course that's just speculation for Shioon. Just saying.


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Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
Actually yes I would. First thing I would go to my base aka Sun-Wo. Think of a plan how to fuc that man life as best as I could. Find his familly, find his clan familly. And kill/rape/burn/throw to river/*add other tortures here* all of his family and clan.
Of course as for the man himself fuc him as far as possible.
I think torture used on Griffith in Berserk would be the best.
"Cutting out muscles from the body over long period of time without killing the host, so that he would become a limp of flesh not able to do anything"

That's what I would do. But heck its me real life person not a shounen hero moron who runs and try to work it out with his fists, while being on the death bed himself.
You do realize that I was asking a rhetorical question right?

Also I found your little story more unbelievable then Shioon's actions. If it was a real life person in Shioon's place they would have most likely been cowering in fear and begging to get out of the Murim world.

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Originally Posted by bigdeal000 View Post
I disagree. Next chapter, Shion will yell: "I don't care if I can't see you, I'm not afraid" and charge the doc. Sera will try to save him and get the blow instead, and shion will be beaten afterwards to a bloody pulp + captured again. So the chapter after that he'll need saving once more
That's just exaggerating. The whole purpose of Shioon's kidnapping thus far is to move the plot forward. It's not like Shioon has ever been pointlessly kidnapped like your speculating.
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Old 2012-06-02, 12:41   Link #2191
Xaturas
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Originally Posted by Log View Post
Also I found your little story more unbelievable then Shioon's actions. If it was a real life person in Shioon's place they would have most likely been cowering in fear and begging to get out of the Murim world.
Frankly you are wrong. Once you get into mafia world the only way out is with your legs in front of your body. That is if your body is still a whole part.
Murim is a mafia. Shion like it or not is a part of dark underworld which society don't know about or don't want to know about.
You can either behave as I would more less. Or be a fictional emotional Jesus, converting hardcore criminals into lovely sheep. Forgive me but emotional Jesus would be dead after few days of his *converting* non believers.
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Old 2012-06-02, 12:49   Link #2192
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Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
Frankly you are wrong. Once you get into mafia world the only way out is with your legs in front of your body. That is if your body is still a whole part.
Murim is a mafia. Shion like it or not is a part of dark underworld which society don't know about or don't want to know about.
You can either behave as I would more less. Or be a fictional emotional Jesus, converting hardcore criminals into lovely sheep. Forgive me but emotional Jesus would be dead after few days of his *converting* non believers.
What? You didn't answer my point. It's not like I'm not acknowledging that murim is like mafia where once your in you can't get out. I'm saying that a "normal" person would be cowering in fear and begging to get out of Murim instead of being some sort of cold hearted badass like your claiming to be if you take Shioon's place.
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Old 2012-06-02, 12:51   Link #2193
Xaturas
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What? You didn't answer my point. It's not like I'm not acknowledging that murim is like mafia where once your in you can't get out. I'm saying that a "normal" person would be cowering in fear and begging to get out of Murim instead of being some sort of cold hearted badass like your claiming to be if you take Shioon's place.
And I'm saying you are fucing wrong if you can't get that so be it.
Not every person is the same. Not every normal man will grab his toys and run away.
Real world is harsh and brutal, if you can't get it then its your problem man.
Forgive me but I rather be a cold heartless bastard than some Jesus, when my and my family life is at stake.
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Old 2012-06-02, 14:16   Link #2194
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I hope at the end of this fight Shioon goes super saiyan and saves Sera from the evil doc. Thats all i ask for..
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Old 2012-06-02, 14:34   Link #2195
tsunade666
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how can he goes super saiyan if he doesn't have any blood running on his vein already. If he recovers that fast in the middle of the fight....... I don't care anymore.
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Old 2012-06-02, 15:06   Link #2196
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how can he goes super saiyan if he doesn't have any blood running on his vein already. If he recovers that fast in the middle of the fight....... I don't care anymore.
He has blood, most of his blood has been transfused back in his body plus he has received a blood supplement pill.

The only thing right now that is abnormal (compare to normal people) is the fact that his body is already starting to obey him when that should have taken more time. But the knife wound on his hand was more or less completely healed in half a day, his recuperation ability has been abnormal from the moment he has eaten the magic pill.
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Old 2012-06-02, 15:48   Link #2197
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Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
And I'm saying you are fucing wrong if you can't get that so be it.
What's "fucing"?

Also a "your wrong" arguement isn't a really good debate tactic especially since you aren't adressing most of my points.

Quote:
Not every person is the same. Not every normal man will grab his toys and run away.
Real world is harsh and brutal, if you can't get it then its your problem man.
Sure, not everyone's the same in the real world but the vast majority of us have little to no experience where are lifes are threatened. Without experience with dealing with something that's threatening them humans become cowards and try to run away. Certainly there are those that are braver or crafter but cowering when your life is threatened is normal.

Also I don't see the point of your "real world" arguement. Are you saying that the real world is so harsh and brutal to the point where it's similar to "the Breakers" world? Because I assure you, that's not the case.

Quote:
Forgive me but I rather be a cold heartless bastard than some Jesus, when my and my family life is at stake.
Except you don't know how you would react if you were thrown in Shioon's position. Certainly you could claim to be able to be heartless or cold but that's just empty boasting until you could prove it.

Last edited by Log; 2012-06-02 at 16:08.
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Old 2012-06-02, 19:13   Link #2198
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If it was a real life person in Shioon's place they would have most likely been cowering in fear and begging to get out of the Murim world.
I don't think cowering in fear is the likely reaction to a threat. If the person were a child that might make sense, but in the case of "a real life person", there would be an instinct based reaction depending on the level of danger. The more likely reactions are: to attack the threat, hold your ground, or run away. Cowering and losing your mind are reactions that usually happen when the first instinct fails. Meaning, the danger is too extreme to comprehend or your judgment is impaired.

I don't know what I would do if I were in Shion's position, mostly likely I'd attack in fear like he did. I don't think I'd have the composure to meticulously plan out my revenge either in the face of an immediate danger. I imagine my thought process would be ďKill! Kill! Kill!Ē. If at the end Iím alive and the other guy is incapacitated, then we can talk torture, otherwise my survival takes priority.

Oh yeah, I forgot Sera was with me, I didnít really consider how she factors in. Well, itís probably easier to stand your ground when you got someone you trust with you. If it were me I might be tempted to use her as a decoy or have her do all work. Haha haÖIím such a coward T_T...i wanna kung fu too, where my magic pill, need pay a visit to the wizard
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Old 2012-06-02, 19:28   Link #2199
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Originally Posted by Airaku View Post
I don't think cowering in fear is the likely reaction to a threat. If the person were a child that might make sense, but in the case of "a real life person", there would be an instinct based reaction depending on the level of danger. The more likely reactions are: to attack the threat, hold your ground, or run away. Cowering and losing your mind are reactions that usually happen when the first instinct fails. Meaning, the danger is too extreme to comprehend or your judgment is impaired.

I don't know what I would do if I were in Shion's position, mostly likely I'd attack in fear like he did. I don't think I'd have the composure to meticulously plan out my revenge either in the face of an immediate danger. I imagine my thought process would be “Kill! Kill! Kill!”. If at the end I’m alive and the other guy is incapacitated, then we can talk torture, otherwise my survival takes priority.

Oh yeah, I forgot Sera was with me, I didn’t really consider how she factors in. Well, it’s probably easier to stand your ground when you got someone you trust with you. If it were me I might be tempted to use her as a decoy or have her do all work. Haha ha…I’m such a coward T_T...i wanna kung fu too, where my magic pill, need pay a visit to the wizard
Being attacked by superhumans capable of casually destroying concrete casually and moving at speeds faster then a car registers to me as a danger to extreme to comprehand and hence a normal human will cower. Either way I believe that a humans first reaction to the Murim world would be to try to run away from it.

And yeah......if I was in Shioon's position I imagine I would also try to run away to and likely move to another country on the other side of the globe if I succeed. Oh and also carry a gun with me at all times would help to.
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Old 2012-06-02, 23:22   Link #2200
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Originally Posted by Log View Post
Being attacked by superhumans capable of casually destroying concrete casually and moving at speeds faster then a car registers to me as a danger to extreme to comprehand and hence a normal human will cower. Either way I believe that a humans first reaction to the Murim world would be to try to run away from it.

And yeah......if I was in Shioon's position I imagine I would also try to run away to and likely move to another country on the other side of the globe if I succeed. Oh and also carry a gun with me at all times would help to.
The difference between you and me here is that we are anticipating different levels of danger. I, as person from the real world should not be aware of what a murim is capable of. When I look at the doc I see a guy in an apron and cap that likes to attack mothers and treat people like ingredients. Unlike you, I imagine I would be oblivious to the possibility that he could crush me in heartbeat. If I knew the guy was a super saiyan in disguise I wouldn't running around his hideout in the first place. I'd find myself a nice dark corner (preferable a toilet for obvious reasons) hug my knees and start praying. But to be realistic, I wouldn't know what doc is capable of; I would attack him recklessly and likely get killed, similar to how shion reacted.
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