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Old 2010-02-06, 18:29   Link #1021
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I've already seen quite a few reviews (moreso written retrospectives actually) from the English speaking crowd who went to see it and so far they've been fairly reasonable if not downright restrained. You'd be surprised how many English speakers live in Japan who apparently managed to get tickets and have blogged and/or written up their impressions on internet.
That's still a really small sample size to make such a call in regards to this fandom. I'll wait until the 99,9% see this instead of basing it on the 0.01% and go from their..
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Old 2010-02-06, 18:59   Link #1022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
That's still a really small sample size to make such a call in regards to this fandom. I'll wait until the 99,9% see this instead of basing it on the 0.01% and go from their..
Even if things do go haywire with regard to fan talk about the movie, when the Blu-Ray is ultimately released a) I'll probably be long gone from active posting/reading in the sub-forum and b) it'll probably be a short burst and then quiet down within a week or two at which point I'll find some way or other to check it out.

You know I'll admit I was kind of foolish to forget that once the release hits it's nearly impossible to have the same amount of consistent in your face hype about a movie as it is for a TV serial that typically has weekly entries for several months. There is no cycle, it's just boom and then it's done. You might hear about it in the papers during the promotion blitz with slogans and sales quotes and then just as quickly things go back down to a readable level.

hehe...who would have ever thought I'd be the one to say that I don't think things will get to out of hand with regard to Haruhi. No seriously I really do agree with Bri and think that things might well become more moderate and that it'll only serve to give the franchise some new lifeblood by opening it up to interest from the less hardcore fans who were probably terrified and put off by the zealous "Haruhiism" style reactions to the franchise circa 2006 (and yes you can put me on the cusp of that group that was confused and unsure what to make of it all).

I'd been meaning to post something about whether Haruhi could ever be a franchise for people other than the hardcore and well.....I guess we might find out if that can be the case.
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Old 2010-02-06, 20:07   Link #1023
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
hehe...who would have ever thought I'd be the one to say that I don't think things will get to out of hand with regard to Haruhi. No seriously I really do agree with Bri and think that things might well become more moderate and that it'll only serve to give the franchise some new lifeblood by opening it up to interest from the less hardcore fans who were probably terrified and put off by the zealous "Haruhiism" style reactions to the franchise circa 2006 (and yes you can put me on the cusp of that group that was confused and unsure what to make of it all).

I'd been meaning to post something about whether Haruhi could ever be a franchise for people other than the hardcore and well.....I guess we might find out if that can be the case.
Haha, this will be interesting. I'll have to find out just how awesome this "Disappearance" story will be since people have been promising that all of the 2009 reairing will be worth it because of Disappearance. I'm skeptical myself, but we'll just have to see.
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Old 2010-02-06, 20:29   Link #1024
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I agree with Bri, and Kaoshin's last two posts.

Three Years Layoff + disappointment over Haruhi 2009 in some circles has taken a lot of the wind of hype out of Haruhi's sales.


The negative to this, of course, is that Haruhi is no longer the sort of internet phenomena that she and her anime once was.


The positive to this, though, is what Bri and Kaoshin have pointed out. This anime franchise is no longer surrounded with over-the-top hype as much as it once was, and it is true that such hype can frighten or annoy a lot of potential fans off.


I do think that Haruhi is in a good position to slowly but surely regain a large and potent fanbase, only this time with a fanbase perhaps focused more on basic standards of quality than on hype, and personally, I think this is great.

I've long felt that some of the finer elements of this anime franchise can get lost in all the hype (finer elements like the distinctive art style, and excellent animation, particularly for "money shot" scenes).
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Old 2010-02-06, 21:28   Link #1025
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I would argue that it was the overwhelming hype that made Avatar the top-grossing movie. Despite it's mediocrity, in my personal opinion.

We are *not* talking about a Church here. I have been put off going to some Churches because of the stories of zealotry of those Churches. (I'm an agnostic, but I also want to see what a Church service is like)

It's not as if once you pop in that DVD and open up the .mkv file a few ninja Haruhi fans are going to pop up behind your comfy chair and start demanding you convert or else they are going to go Haruhi-style Mikuru molest on you.
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Old 2010-02-07, 01:00   Link #1026
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Even though I do many other active things besides watching anime, Kyon's experience in Disappearance resonated with me when I first read it. His reaction and response to the "I'm trapped in time!" conflict reminded me of why I loved watching Back to the Future: I was easily able to project myself into his position and let him be my avatar in this fantastic world.

Spoiler for My commentary might spoil your movie experience:


And for reasons stated above, I am pleased that the first reports and reviews of the Disappearance movie have been positive in respect to its animation quality and accuracy in regards to the novel's content.
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Old 2010-02-07, 01:13   Link #1027
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RightStuf lists the Boredom novel for July 31... so we could get the Disappearance novel in December...
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Old 2010-02-07, 01:18   Link #1028
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Originally Posted by baltakatei View Post
Even though I do many other active things besides watching anime, Kyon's experience in Disappearance resonated with me when I first read it. His reaction and response to the "I'm trapped in time!" conflict reminded me of why I loved watching Back to the Future: I was easily able to project myself into his position and let him be my avatar in this fantastic world.

Spoiler for My commentary might spoil your movie experience:


And for reasons stated above, I am pleased that the first reports and reviews of the Disappearance movie have been positive in respect to its animation quality and accuracy in regards to the novel's content.
I don't quite know when Disappearance novel will come to America (supposedly sometime around December), but given the timing in relation to when the U.S. Manga releases hit the Disappearance storyline, I wouldn't be surprised if the Movie is released in America around the same time (Which would be roughly a year from now.).
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Old 2010-02-07, 03:19   Link #1029
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I do think that Haruhi is in a good position to slowly but surely regain a large and potent fanbase, only this time with a fanbase perhaps focused more on basic standards of quality than on hype, and personally, I think this is great.
Exactly. I want Haruhi to maintain a strong, healthy fanbase, but I'm glad it's past its prime. The hype seemed to overshadow the show itself back then, like people enjoyed being a part of the Haruhi hype machine more than they honestly enjoyed watching the show itself. The current fanbase seems calmer, more sincere and less congested.

And I hope that if the second/third season comes soon after Disappearance, that might finally be enough to get completely rid of the bad taste left behind by Endless Eight for you.

Looking forward to the movie.
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Old 2010-02-07, 04:06   Link #1030
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Exactly. I want Haruhi to maintain a strong, healthy fanbase, but I'm glad it's past its prime. The hype seemed to overshadow the show itself back then, like people enjoyed being a part of the Haruhi hype machine more than they honestly enjoyed watching the show itself. The current fanbase seems calmer, more sincere and less congested.

And I hope that if the second/third season comes soon after Disappearance, that might finally be enough to get completely rid of the bad taste left behind by Endless Eight for you.

Looking forward to the movie.
I'm just thinking someone at KyoAni/Kadokawa has got to be banging his head over the way they handled things up to this point. I mean, they were able to resurrect a bit of the 2006 magic when BLR aired, even after giving the fans not a blip of new novel material or novel adaptation for three years (manga and Haruhi-chan were good, but don't really count). Then E8 came and killed that right off. Sigh was good, and that eased things somewhat, and now Disappearance has bumped them back up to at least "successful", but imagine where they'd be right now if E8 had been done better...

I'm not even one of those who wishes E8 had been only one episode. Showing multiple iterations is a brilliant move, they just went waaaay overboard. Three episodes would have been ideal, and then they could have spent the extra budget on giving BLR some better animation... Nothing wrong with a 23 episode "season 1", after all...
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Old 2010-02-07, 05:17   Link #1031
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I'm just thinking someone at KyoAni/Kadokawa has got to be banging his head over the way they handled things up to this point. I mean, they were able to resurrect a bit of the 2006 magic when BLR aired, even after giving the fans not a blip of new novel material or novel adaptation for three years (manga and Haruhi-chan were good, but don't really count). Then E8 came and killed that right off. Sigh was good, and that eased things somewhat, and now Disappearance has bumped them back up to at least "successful", but imagine where they'd be right now if E8 had been done better...

I'm not even one of those who wishes E8 had been only one episode. Showing multiple iterations is a brilliant move, they just went waaaay overboard. Three episodes would have been ideal, and then they could have spent the extra budget on giving BLR some better animation... Nothing wrong with a 23 episode "season 1", after all...
How could they have done better? I'm not attempting to be harsh, I'm truly curious as to how you think it could've been handled better. The sales of the DVDs were at the very least 13,000 per volume (and 4 volumes at that) plus 25,000 for BLR and look to be going back up for Sigh contrary to what happens to almost every other show's DVDs. The movie was immensely popular to have 500 fans waiting outside for the premiere at Cinema Sunshine with some waiting since midnight. While I do think BLR could do with some touch-ups, it was the first Haruhi episode to be aired in HD, so some kinks likely had to be worked out. I do believe Kadokawa had a plan for this whole thing starting back in 2007. I've blogged about how I feel the whole past three (now four) years has led to this movie. I suppose that I believe in the whole "leave them wanting more" attitude and by leaving Vanishment out of a "second season" you create that desire ever more strongly.

I am glad that the hype around this show has died down and that we're able to talk about the plot, animation, music, characters, and little subtleties that were glossed over due to the big hype (especially Hare Hare Yukai). The show is still picking up new fans and returning old ones (like me). I have little doubt we'll be seeing a second season of Haruhi soon since they can animate in chronological order without having to worry about the two-ton gorilla that is Vanishment.
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Old 2010-02-07, 09:38   Link #1032
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RightStuf lists the Boredom novel for July 31... so we could get the Disappearance novel in December...
So how much time is there between the paperback and hardcover editions?
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Old 2010-02-07, 09:42   Link #1033
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So how much time is there between the paperback and hardcover editions?
Unlike most novels, Little, Brown has taken pity on us Haruhi fans and releases both editions at the same time. Most likely it is due to the difference between covers.
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Old 2010-02-07, 10:07   Link #1034
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Exactly. I want Haruhi to maintain a strong, healthy fanbase, but I'm glad it's past its prime. The hype seemed to overshadow the show itself back then, like people enjoyed being a part of the Haruhi hype machine more than they honestly enjoyed watching the show itself. The current fanbase seems calmer, more sincere and less congested.

And I hope that if the second/third season comes soon after Disappearance, that might finally be enough to get completely rid of the bad taste left behind by Endless Eight for you.

Thanks for the concern, lol.

But, in complete honesty... I'm pretty confident that there will be another Haruhi season, and as long as KyoAni/Kadokawa handles that well, E8 will just be something that I (and some other Haruhi fans, I'm sure) can look back on and crack jokes about in a lighthearted way. Truthfully, the word "endless" will forever more tickle my funny bone due to Haruhi 2009...

Truthfully, at this point, it's the three year layoff (2006 to 2009) that bothers me more than E8 does, really. I hope that we don't have to wait three more years for another Haruhi movie and/or another Haruhi season.

But even if there is a long wait, I'd be shocked if there's not another Haruhi season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I'm just thinking someone at KyoAni/Kadokawa has got to be banging his head over the way they handled things up to this point. I mean, they were able to resurrect a bit of the 2006 magic when BLR aired, even after giving the fans not a blip of new novel material or novel adaptation for three years (manga and Haruhi-chan were good, but don't really count). Then E8 came and killed that right off. Sigh was good, and that eased things somewhat, and now Disappearance has bumped them back up to at least "successful", but imagine where they'd be right now if E8 had been done better...

I'm not even one of those who wishes E8 had been only one episode. Showing multiple iterations is a brilliant move, they just went waaaay overboard. Three episodes would have been ideal, and then they could have spent the extra budget on giving BLR some better animation... Nothing wrong with a 23 episode "season 1", after all...
Good points. I agree that three episodes would have been ideal.
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Old 2010-02-07, 10:12   Link #1035
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Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
I am glad that the hype around this show has died down and that we're able to talk about the plot, animation, music, characters, and little subtleties that were glossed over due to the big hype (especially Hare Hare Yukai). The show is still picking up new fans and returning old ones (like me).
In fact, I myself got put off by the hype back when it first came out, and ended up delaying it till only 2 months ago. By then, of course, everything stormy with the franchise had settled and people were looking forward to the Disappearance movie.

Did KyoAni mess up? Given the clever chums that they are and the benefit of hindsight, I'll have to say no, they didn't. Sure, they made unpopular decisions, they put off potential fans, they even downright lost fans, hardcore ones at that (you won't believe how much complaints about the series I get when I pull out my Haruhi deck to play). But I still believe they knew what was going to happen, and in fact, we have just been playing into their hands all along.

When you reach the zenith, it's hard to go further anymore. Time to take a fall, and then climb back up triumphantly.
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Old 2010-02-07, 12:13   Link #1036
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I'm just thinking someone at KyoAni/Kadokawa has got to be banging his head over the way they handled things up to this point. I mean, they were able to resurrect a bit of the 2006 magic when BLR aired, even after giving the fans not a blip of new novel material or novel adaptation for three years (manga and Haruhi-chan were good, but don't really count). Then E8 came and killed that right off. Sigh was good, and that eased things somewhat, and now Disappearance has bumped them back up to at least "successful", but imagine where they'd be right now if E8 had been done better...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post
I am glad that the hype around this show has died down and that we're able to talk about the plot, animation, music, characters, and little subtleties that were glossed over due to the big hype (especially Hare Hare Yukai). The show is still picking up new fans and returning old ones (like me). I have little doubt we'll be seeing a second season of Haruhi soon since they can animate in chronological order without having to worry about the two-ton gorilla that is Vanishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edkedkedk View Post
Did KyoAni mess up? Given the clever chums that they are and the benefit of hindsight, I'll have to say no, they didn't. Sure, they made unpopular decisions, they put off potential fans, they even downright lost fans, hardcore ones at that. But I still believe they knew what was going to happen, and in fact, we have just been playing into their hands all along.

When you reach the zenith, it's hard to go further anymore. Time to take a fall, and then climb back up triumphantly.
I'm sure publishing house Kadokawa is quite pleased with the way the franchise developed. The internet phenomenon Haruhi fueled the sales of light novels, manga, merchandise and games for 3 years. All they had to do was keep silent and feed the speculation in their New Type magazine. I wouldnt't be surprised if they postponed the second season out of commercial interests. The second season could only fail given the expectations.

Tsuguhiko Kadokawa confirmed the marketing was fully under their control and intentional. He also states that Endless Eight was the work of the director, Tatsuya Ishihara. He has full creative control over the Haruhi anime project and the backing of Kadokawa. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...uhiko-kadokawa. The second season and the eight part version of E8 had been planned even before april 2007 as Yakuta Yamamoto was aware of it before his dismissal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqy8x-zKuKw.

"When you reach the zenith, it's hard to go further anymore. Time to take a fall, and then climb back up triumphantly". I think this sums it up. If you have to fail, better fail gloriously. Endless Eight received far more attention then all the well received anime of 2009. As advertisement goes, it kept Haruhi in the spotlight and reset the expectations for the movie.
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Old 2010-02-07, 13:44   Link #1037
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I'm sure publishing house Kadokawa is quite pleased with the way the franchise developed. The internet phenomenon Haruhi fueled the sales of light novels, manga, merchandise and games for 3 years. All they had to do was keep silent and feed the speculation in their New Type magazine. I wouldnt't be surprised if they postponed the second season out of commercial interests. The second season could only fail given the expectations.
I'm sorry, but I have to say that I disagree.

In the business world, you strike while the iron is hot; you respond when the demand is at its zenith. Once you've reached the zenith, you don't say "Oh well. Can't do more. We can't possibly keep up the success, or meet fan expectations, anyway. Might as well intentionally fail to lower expectations."

Once you reach the zenith, you try to keep it up.

That is what Clannad did with After Story. That is what Code Geass did with R2. And they were commercially rewarded for it.

And, in the case of Clannad: After Story at least, many feel that as much as they liked the original, the sequel actually exceeded it.

You always aim for improvement; you always aim to meet or exceed hype, if its financially feasible for you to attempt that aim.

That is what made all the big successes of the entertainment world the big successes that they are.

They did not sit on their laurels, or purposely try to lower fan expectations. That is the wrong business strategy, period.


Look, I'm willing to forgive Endless Eight, and the three year layoff, but I hate; absolutely hate with a passion; these defenses of E8 and the three-year layoff that just runs totally contrary to anything and everything that I've learned (in real life and in university) about business and economics.

It's also a very bad argument for fans in particular to be making. As fans, we should want the animation companies that we like to try as much as they can to put out good products and meet fan demands. We should want them to keep trying to impress us. Ultimately, the fan wins when this is the case. The fan loses, at least to some degree, when companies take approaches that run contrary to that.


When you catch lightning in a bottle like KyoAni/Kadokawa did with Haruhi back in 2006, you don't just let it sit there for three years. And you don't pull risky stunts with it when it can sell perfectly well (and arguably better) with out them. You just keep putting the product out there, and trying to meet fan demands and expectations.

Now, once you sense that market saturation may be setting in, then yes you pull back a bit and let the fans appetite for more gradually build up again. But market demand for the Haruhi anime was nowhere near such a saturation point after just one 13 episode Season back in 2006.

The enormous popularity of gender-bended Haruhi is perfect proof of that. That degree of popularity is a sure sign of a vacuum being filled; a vacuum caused by a lack of new, fresh Haruhi anime material.


The three-year layoff hurt the Haruhi franchise. It did not help it.

It's lowered the volume of the hype surrounding the Haruhi franchise, which is a nice side-effect, but it was a commercial mistake.


It's also very telling to me that the first Sigh DVD sold better than the last two E8 DVDs...



Quote:

"When you reach the zenith, it's hard to go further anymore. Time to take a fall, and then climb back up triumphantly". I think this sums it up. If you have to fail, better fail gloriously.
Haruhi 2009 didn't have to fail, any more than Clannad: After Story had to fail.


Quote:
Endless Eight received far more attention then all the well received anime of 2009. As advertisement goes, it kept Haruhi in the spotlight and reset the expectations for the movie.
Contrary to popular belief, there is such a thing as bad advertising. There really is.

There's reasons why Bakemonogatari and K-On! outsold Haruhi in the Japanese market. There's reasons why the first Sigh DVD outsold the late two E8 DVDs.


I hope that the Haruhi movie does great, and that this anime franchise bounces back in a big way. But I'm not going to buy into arguments defending E8 and the three-year layoff that runs completely contrary to my understanding of good business practices and smart economics.
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Old 2010-02-07, 14:03   Link #1038
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these defenses of E8 and the three-year layoff that just runs totally contrary to anything and everything that I've learned (in real life and in university) about business and economics.
And that, it seems to me, is pretty much exactly why they did it. If it was expected or logical, it would never have worked, but this drives people nuts -- why would they purposefully do something completely illogical?! Ah, wouldn't you like to know...

Can we please not turn this, yet again, into yet another "the merits of Endless Eight and Kadokawa's marketing strategy" thread? Haven't we had enough? If you must, at least take it to a more appropriate thread.
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Old 2010-02-07, 14:27   Link #1039
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Anyone know the sales for the premier ?
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Old 2010-02-07, 17:37   Link #1040
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It's also very telling to me that the first Sigh DVD sold better than the last two E8 DVDs...
A data point on its own is meaningless.

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Anyone know the sales for the premier ?
Not available yet.
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