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Old 2009-10-25, 19:01   Link #261
Alchemist007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayote View Post
you killed Bambi.

i am a vegitarian and do not think that Fish or Eggs are vegi. i find that some think that fish is vegi which i don't get as to me it's meat. been vegi all my life, am healty and the thought of eating meat, i don't think i would be able to. i mean even if it was put in front of me i just could not. i always wonderd what meat tastes like as well as being fasinated with sushi though i don't think i would ever be able to go through with it.
Yeah I find it hard to believe too but I actually know some ppl like that, in my nutrition class I also learned about many types of vegetarians and the fish kind was one of them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
My friend used to be vegitarian for most of his life...he had chicken and bacon...he never went back.

Once you go bacon you never go back, unless of course you dont like bacon. I just thought of the saddest thing...if you kill cows and make other cows eat that cow...would the cow's meat be tastier (Latest treehouse of horror, watch it and you will see)
I've had bacon and chicken, I think the former is disgusting and the latter is no different than tofu. Also Mad Cow disease spreads because of cannibalism.
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Old 2009-10-25, 19:16   Link #262
Nightbat®
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I love animals

I also love eating meat

I don't understand 'Veggies' and will make no effort to do so, 'Veggies' don't understand me and will make no effort to do so

...All is well with the world
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Old 2009-10-25, 19:18   Link #263
Alchemist007
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That's not true, I understand quite well. You like shit so you eat shit, I do the same thing. My position may have been initially because of religion but considering my current state of agnosticism, my mom even said I can eat w/e I want if I choose to, I choose not to because I just don't like it. Also considering my dad's chemical analysis of his blood (cholesterol check I suppose), doc said he has the health of a 20 year old (he's in mid 50s). Pretty sure his diet has to do with it
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Old 2009-10-25, 19:30   Link #264
synaesthetic
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Wish a mod would come clean out all the troll posts in this thread, like they did with the gay marriage thread.

I knew it'd get trolled when I posted the thread initially, but we did get a lot of good discussion in here and I definitely feel like I better understand the perspective of those people who are vegetarian out of moral concerns.
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Old 2009-10-25, 19:32   Link #265
Cub-Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
That's not true, I understand quite well. You like shit so you eat shit, I do the same thing. My position may have been initially because of religion but considering my current state of agnosticism, my mom even said I can eat w/e I want if I choose to, I choose not to because I just don't like it. Also considering my dad's chemical analysis of his blood (cholesterol check I suppose), doc said he has the health of a 20 year old (he's in mid 50s). Pretty sure his diet has to do with it
I wouldnt want to live an extra 10/20 years longer if I knew I couldn't eat meat, I've lived with it for too long and its a big part of my diet.
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Old 2009-10-25, 19:38   Link #266
Alchemist007
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Well that's fine for you then. I do what I like and potentially end up living longer for it.
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Old 2009-10-25, 19:39   Link #267
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
That's reassuring. xD

Taking a sentient being from its mother shortly after its birth, putting it inside a box in which it can't even turn around and, later on, barely lie down and stand up is not pleasant for it. Neither is being tethered at the neck to restrict its movement even further and suffering a severe, purposely inflicted case of anemia that gives the flesh the pale colour that is wanted.
The veals have to lie down on the bare floor, since the usual bedding would contain iron, and almost always develop chronic diarrhoea as well as stomach ulcers. And that is just one half of their suffering.
Okay I never said they had a pleasent life. There is certainly room for improvement.

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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
The veals are pretty much bored to death. They have nothing to do besides standing around, ...
And I thought thats what they are naturally doing all the day... standing around, eating, digesting, sleeping (basically a mix of that in a loose order).

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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
...and so you can watch them grind their teeth, move their tail around restlessly and swag their tongue.
Does this apply to all cattle (even BIO)?

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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
It's like a factory chicken's violent pecking or a factory pig's tail biting, if maybe less self-destructive.
This is the rule, not the exception.
Says who? But I must admit I don't regularly go on farms and check up on how the animals are treated there.

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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Which is why I said "in comparision".
My point is that I don't think it's a moral imperative to pick the two year old child if you are forced to torture either them or an adult, since I don't believe you have to understand what is happening to truly suffer, or that you automatically suffer less if you don't.
Thats another ethical dilemma. But what is your point, are you trying to prove my point of view? ^^' I mean I should do that not you... that is unfair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Probably, but that wasn't my point. My point was that you can suffer just as much if you aren't able to comprehend the situation fully.
I think you can't, since you have forgotten the suffering of an hour ago in the cannot comprehend case, while it multiplies with the feeling of the suffering of an hour ago in the case of actual comprehension. Its even worse, since you can then make a prediction of how this is going to go on.

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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Ha!
I shall show you the true extent of my skill! Prepare yourself! xD
No, since I need to give you at least the ghost of a chance.

Last edited by Jinto; 2009-10-25 at 19:58.
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Old 2009-10-25, 20:44   Link #268
SoulCorpse
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I fully and utterly respect vegies, and some time wish i took that road. But honostly spinach, celery, broccoli, and varies assortments of fruits, and vegetibles, taste so God Danm Nasty. And i'm sure you could say the same for varies meats. But really arn't we just living the Cirle Of Life, survival of the fittest. Don't animals do it every day in the wild, and are we not but animals our selves. Then again their are animals that eat only vegetables. So we could neccessarily eat any of which.

Also vegeies can not neccessarily be considered healtheir than meats, which resort in long life. Since if eaten in correct value and prepared correctly, meat can result in very fitting health. But personally i think humans, being born with teeth and a digestive system capable of both plant and meat consumption, should enjoy the mixture of the two (which is found in most homes).

But what do I know.
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Last edited by SoulCorpse; 2009-10-25 at 20:58.
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Old 2009-10-25, 21:03   Link #269
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
My friend used to be vegitarian for most of his life...he had chicken and bacon...he never went back.

Once you go bacon you never go back, unless of course you dont like bacon. I just thought of the saddest thing...if you kill cows and make other cows eat that cow...would the cow's meat be tastier (Latest treehouse of horror, watch it and you will see)
Actually, I know a couple vegetarians who wouldn't even touch meat because they reek.

So, I have been wondering if meat is like soda and vegetable is like plain water. Those who drink soda get "addicted" to it. As for those who convert to plain water for extended period of time--some can go back to soda, some think it's disgusting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulCorpse View Post
I fully and utterly respect vegies, and some time wish i took that road. But honostly spinach, celery, broccoli, and varies assortments of fruits, and vegetibles, taste so God Danm Nasty. And i'm sure you could say the same for varies meats. But really arn't we just living the Cirle Of Life, survival of the fittest. Don't animals do it every day in the wild, and are we not but animals our selves.
We are too far into living unnaturally to talk about the natural way of the world now.

I personally believe in living according to nature, but not in this context.
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Old 2009-10-25, 21:36   Link #270
synaesthetic
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I don't particularly like nature. It's dirty, it's smelly and it's wet and cold. Or hot and dry. I'm always kind of in awe at people who get nature and can understand animals and the natural world.

Of course, they're also in awe at how I can tear apart, fix, and reassemble various bits of electronics without even a manual.

Different people are different. ^^;

@SoulCorpse: Not liking spinach is a crime. You horrible person you. Try eating fresh spinach and see if that changes your mind about the flavor.
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Old 2009-10-25, 23:23   Link #271
Cinocard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachopvutru
So, I have been wondering if meat is like soda and vegetable is like plain water. Those who drink soda get "addicted" to it. As for those who convert to plain water for extended period of time--some can go back to soda, some think it's disgusting.
IMHO it's just that we get used to the type of food we eat. People near the sea can eat more "fishy" food than people inland. People who grow up eating sheeps and goats may find beef stinky, when we who are used to drinking cow milk may have trouble drinking goat milk. It's more a matter of adapting, rather than personal tastes. Only when you eat/drink both frequently in a long time, can your comparison of the two be valid, when most vegetarians have been so for their whole life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic
I don't particularly like nature. It's dirty, it's smelly and it's wet and cold. Or hot and dry. I'm always kind of in awe at people who get nature and can understand animals and the natural world.
Haha, obviously you know nature is not always like that. I don't really like nature either, but me must agree there are sceneries in this world that will just leave you in awe when you see them.
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Old 2009-10-25, 23:33   Link #272
Gin
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I'm eating some lamb right now, the cruelty really adds to the flavor
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Old 2009-10-25, 23:41   Link #273
FateAnomaly
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I have nothing against eating vegetables but it is just much too inconvenient to do be a vegetarian.
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Old 2009-10-25, 23:52   Link #274
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulCorpse View Post
I fully and utterly respect vegies, and some time wish i took that road. But honostly spinach, celery, broccoli, and varies assortments of fruits, and vegetibles, taste so God Danm Nasty. And i'm sure you could say the same for varies meats. But really arn't we just living the Cirle Of Life, survival of the fittest. Don't animals do it every day in the wild, and are we not but animals our selves. Then again their are animals that eat only vegetables. So we could neccessarily eat any of which.
You could always try food from East Asia, particularly Korean food. There are so many foods that taste good and it does not use meat. Like kimchi(and other variation of kimchi and the food you could make out of), bibimbap, daenjong , sundubu, duckboki, jeon, Naengmyeon , and so many more. Some of them could use meat but even without them they still taste really good and healthy as well.
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Old 2009-10-26, 00:36   Link #275
Irenicus
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My ~2 cents:

I eat meat. I don't have a particular reason to be a vegetarian. Also, I love meat. It is a crucial, tasty part of my diet. Of course, veggies can do what they want; I don't think they're harming anyone, and it's a perfectly normal personal choice. Some health benefits too, but also negatives that require you to balance out your meal a lot more. Protein, for example: soybean's a great source, but it doesn't provide all that the body needs.

I do...dislike...how some like to do haranguing against meat-eaters though.

On the other hand, I agree wholeheartedly with some arguments about the rather brutal conditions of some livestock industries. They aren't just unnecessary animal cruelty, but also human health threats and reductions in the quality of the meat. Mad cow disease shouldn't be nearly as troublesome as it is if the meat industry actually gives a damn and proper regulations put in place...

But the lobby alliance is too powerful, eh. You can't easily defeat a lobby backed by the entire "Fast Food Nation" empire eager for cheap, easily processed raw materials to fuel the machine.

****

I have some questions for the vegetarians in this thread though: I know there's a gray area for seafood, eggs, and milk, and some are more "stringent" than others. You've probably answered this before somewhere in this long, meandering thread, but if it's okay: how do you fit in that spectrum, and why?

Quote:
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@SoulCorpse: Not liking spinach is a crime. You horrible person you. Try eating fresh spinach and see if that changes your mind about the flavor.
Exactly. Does nobody ever watch Popeye any more?

Spinach is a wonderful, wonderful vegetable. Good fresh, yet easy to cook. You can of course cook it wrong and make it bitter, but it shouldn't be.
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Old 2009-10-26, 01:36   Link #276
HayashiTakara
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No vegetable can build muscle fibers the way red meat does ;O
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Old 2009-10-26, 01:44   Link #277
Mr_Paper
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
No vegetable can build muscle fibers the way red meat does ;O
Actually, that is not entirely true.

There are vegetables which also contain similar proteins advantageous to muscle growth and more to the point red meat is not the best source for those proteins... try turkey (twice the protein with less than half the fat). >.>
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Old 2009-10-26, 03:42   Link #278
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Spinach is a wonderful, wonderful vegetable. Good fresh, yet easy to cook. You can of course cook it wrong and make it bitter, but it shouldn't be.
Southern cooking is wonderful, but for fuck's sake they do not know how to cook vegetables. Vegetables should be gently steamed until their color is more intense and vibrant than it is when raw. Or roasted, or grilled, or sauteed in a little light olive oil and butter. Boiling them to death is not the correct method!

Tons of people I know have kids who say they hate broccoli, until I told them how to cook it properly. Now their kids eat broccoli, asparagus, green peas, everything.

Cooking a vegetable till it turns brown and mushy, no wonder people don't like them. You have to cook them carefully, and never overcook!
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Old 2009-10-26, 04:17   Link #279
Irenicus
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^You speak my heart right there! Honestly, I really feel the same about broccoli -- so many people don't know how to cook them. Broccoli, properly cooked, is great. Broccoli boiled unceremoniously until bitter makes me feel sick.

American cooking in general is pretty horrible against vegetables. So unimaginative, so bland. No wonder everybody's unhealthy around here. "Ethnic" cooking, as the myriad of human experiences other than Aunt Jemima's-style cooking is known (we shan't consider fast "food"), tend to be so much more creative in their uses of vegetables. People speak so much about health issues in the USA, yet I think the problem is with a very simple thing: our food. What we eat, how we cook it, etc. Solve it, and we're halfway there.


Oh, but I'm getting off-topic here. To pretend I was actually kind of on topic, I'd say that being a strict vegetarian is, to me as an eater at least, pretty awkwardly limiting. Oyster sauce -- which I assume is off-limits to veggies who don't go for seafood as well -- is wonderful with vegetables in Chinese cuisine.

Of course, vegetarians might not see it the same way. As I would never feel left out of life because I've never eaten a monkey's penis, so I assume they would feel the same about the cuisine I love so much.
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Old 2009-10-26, 04:32   Link #280
Cub-Sama
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Of course, vegetarians might not see it the same way. As I would never feel left out of life because I've never eaten a monkey's penis, so I assume they would feel the same about the cuisine I love so much.
You've never eaten a monkey's penis?! You my friend are missing out!!! Just kidding.

I have a friend who used to be a meat eater and switched to being a veggie who wouldnt even eat sweets with gelatine in them (no roundtrees for her heheheh). She says she doesnt miss anything about it but I myself can NEVER go without meat because I am Nigerian and most of our foods have meat in them and I have yet to meet a vegetarian Nigerian and when I was younger the meat of the food would be almost the only thing I would eat because I didnt want anymore bites. (Of course now I always want more bites of the food than there is in my plate...)

Now I have a hankering for jollof rice the nicest of all rice
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