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Old 2009-11-07, 14:46   Link #21
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
However, the PC-gaming market is declining somewhat (going by other sources than here), now with the recent MW2 fiasco and a lot of other companies who, instead of going PC -> Console goes Console -> PC, which results in poorly optimized software and "consolization" when it isn't thought through. It's a logical step for companies really, as developing for consoles is "easier" and I guess cheaper. Plus the market is a lot bigger, since it appeals to a bigger demographic.
Actually it is reversed, developing for PC is actually cheaper, if i remember correctly, but you make more money selling console versions. Currently developers or publisher try to make every game available on console, which is probably the biggest barrier today for pc gamers. This means most titles are developed with consoles in mind. It is sad to see that a lot of developing studios are trying to move towards consoles, and they do a shitty job at it as well, by trying to put their PC gaming experience onto console gaming. Either they should concentrate on making a proper console game or a PC game, but those half and half titles out there are just a joke.
On the other hand console devs seem to do there job much better getting console titles on the PC, examples are capcom titles.
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Old 2009-11-07, 15:15   Link #22
chikorita157
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I do alot of PC Gaming (mainly Audiosurf, Sims, visual novels, etc)... although gaming consoles have more games, if you have a decent computer already you use for your daily use, you can simply upgrade the graphics card and be able to game opposed to buying a game console which will cost a little more than a graphics card (providing you have a decent CPU and enough RAM). Computers have more of an audience than console gaming since most people own computers. Programs like Steam can allow a person to obtain games digitally and instantly after they are bought.

The problem is that DRM (or Digital Rights Management) is the major drawback with PC gaming. SecureROM and Starforce is the worst examples of DRM that can damage your DVD drive and also modify system files such as installing Rootkits and break numerous things like DVD burning for example.

Keep in mind that FPS are more popular with PCs since the mouse and keyboard are better controllers and also MMORPGs. Visual Novels and doujinshi games are more popular on PCs than game consoles because of the content restrictions on game consoles and licensing fees and requirement of a development kit which can be expensive. Also, modding is not possible with console gaming, and never will.
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Old 2009-11-07, 15:23   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
Actually it is reversed, developing for PC is actually cheaper, if i remember correctly, but you make more money selling console versions.
Ah, that actually makes sense. I stand corrected.
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Old 2009-11-07, 17:11   Link #24
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Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
That's definitely true. However, it depends on whether digital sales can compensate for whatever's resulting in lost sales. If retail shrinkage were simply resulting from a shift to digital distribution, I don't think publishers and developers would be so worried.
Well look at it this way. By selling it online and through the download, you don't have to pay...

1. for disc manufacturing
2. manual printing
3. box printing
4. shipping costs
5. or the retail middle guy
6. multiplatform support is already there and can easily patch the game for you.

The thing I see is that the publisher can broaden their customer base to even more people. They can bring in more revenue because the game's more accessible. That's how I see it and its cheaper.

Regadless, I can go to EBgames or Bestbuy and they'll still have that PC copy of the game I want. When I went to go buy Batman: arkham Asylum, I had bought the only copy they had left as the rest were all pre-ordered that had in stock.

Quote:
Continued demand will depend on the quality and quantity of games on the market. Gamers (including pirates) invest in expensive hardware only if there's a strong supply of cutting-edge software. However, if supply becomes low, hardware manufacturers will simply cut back on their enthusiast lines (it's already an issue now with both the poor economy and the fact that leading companies are focused on making game engines that target console hardware).

Basically, the decline of enthusiast hardware will follow the decline of enthusiast games that push the limits.
There will always be room for enthusiasts because people like ourselves on this board are willing to pay for those games. My niche is in fact very small as I only play specific games like Total War, Starcraft and Supreme Commander and such.

To me it'll just become more focused on a specific market group. With FPS like Left 4 Dead and MMORPGs you really can't argue against it. Though it'll probably stamp out the little development businesses.
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Old 2009-11-07, 18:40   Link #25
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To me it looks like the whole pc gamer thing is on its way down and will eventually disappear. Look at what happened to the niche market a.k.a. boutique pc vendors... Alienware and Voodoo got out while they were ahead and allowed themselves to be bought out before the bubble bursted. I mean seriously whos going to spend money on a computer just to play a game when you can simply get an Xbox or ps3? Plus you have internet acces, can download movies, games etc. and you are part of a console community via xbox live or their counter part. The line between console and pc is beginning to really blur, and its about to be pointless to buy a "gaming pc".
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Old 2009-11-07, 19:37   Link #26
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To me it looks like the whole pc gamer thing is on its way down and will eventually disappear. Look at what happened to the niche market a.k.a. boutique pc vendors... Alienware and Voodoo got out while they were ahead and allowed themselves to be bought out before the bubble bursted. I mean seriously whos going to spend money on a computer just to play a game when you can simply get an Xbox or ps3? Plus you have internet acces, can download movies, games etc. and you are part of a console community via xbox live or their counter part. The line between console and pc is beginning to really blur, and its about to be pointless to buy a "gaming pc".
The thing is that even as a multimedia station the PC is more usefull to me than a console, i can get my fansub with it, play them on the PC without having to reencode them.

I am puzzled by your point on the community, they exist in the PC world too, they are just orbiting around servers or forums instead of a service (even if Steam is giving something akin to Xbox-live).

The line between PC and console is indeed bluring but sometime not for the good, console game needing zero day patch is getting frequent (latest ex would be Borderland on the PS3) and without getting some of the best thing from the PC world (ex: mod tools).
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Old 2009-11-07, 19:51   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
I mean seriously whos going to spend money on a computer just to play a game when you can simply get an Xbox or ps3? Plus you have internet acces, can download movies, games etc. and you are part of a console community via xbox live or their counter part. The line between console and pc is beginning to really blur, and its about to be pointless to buy a "gaming pc".
Computers do much more than just gaming you know...

That and I can easily build a computer capable of playing most games on high settings under $1200 and that's including the monitor.

In any case my computer does everything other than gaming (Like work and accounting stuff) and with the HD cards I can watch movies as well. I can also use my computer as a "media station" and have my PS3 use it to play videos/musics rather than dragging the files manually over to it.

I am also planning on building a PC theatre system with spare parts later on in the future.

That and if I recall correctly you gotta pay subscription fees to have online access with an XBOX.
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Old 2009-11-07, 22:20   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
To me it looks like the whole pc gamer thing is on its way down and will eventually disappear. Look at what happened to the niche market a.k.a. boutique pc vendors... Alienware and Voodoo got out while they were ahead and allowed themselves to be bought out before the bubble bursted. I mean seriously whos going to spend money on a computer just to play a game when you can simply get an Xbox or ps3? Plus you have internet acces, can download movies, games etc. and you are part of a console community via xbox live or their counter part. The line between console and pc is beginning to really blur, and its about to be pointless to buy a "gaming pc".
Alienware and Voodoo were always kind of a niche market for people who wanted something exclusive though. Granted, PC gaming has never been a cheap hobby, but you can get a decent gaming PC off Newegg for $700... just add monitor. That's a premium a lot of people are willing to pay for the exclusives (such as the Witcher and Stalker: Shadows of Chernobyl), better controls for certain genres, higher player counts in multiplayer, etc.
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Old 2009-11-08, 21:44   Link #29
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Quote:
To me it looks like the whole pc gamer thing is on its way down and will eventually disappear. Look at what happened to the niche market a.k.a. boutique pc vendors... Alienware and Voodoo got out while they were ahead and allowed themselves to be bought out before the bubble bursted. I mean seriously whos going to spend money on a computer just to play a game when you can simply get an Xbox or ps3? Plus you have internet acces, can download movies, games etc. and you are part of a console community via xbox live or their counter part. The line between console and pc is beginning to really blur, and its about to be pointless to buy a "gaming pc".
PC Gaming is more useful if you have a laptop that you normally use which is capable for gaming opposed to lugging a game console and a TV screen around if you travel for a whole week and spend most of the time in the hotel room. Laptops have grown more powerful in technology can PC gaming will always beat regular gaming console (not talking about portable game consoles) and you don't really need extra proprietary devices like headsets on PC gaming opposed to console gaming if you wanted to chat while gaming. Also, a keyboard and mouse is more suited for FPs games than controllers will ever be, unless you prefer it.

Most people who game build their own computers and they can double as a regular computer and gaming... A console can go so far, but can't do most of the tasks a computer can do since they aren't designed for that purpose. Sure the older PS3s can run Linux, but they lack good H264 playback and 3D acceleration.
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Old 2009-11-09, 00:43   Link #30
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I think people also forget that you only need a super expensive PC rig with the most powerful GPU's and fastest processors only if you're a hardcore gamer who wants the best out of their PC gaming experience (like myself). However, not everyone is a hardcore PC gamer, and not everyone has the money or incentive to buy powerful gaming PC's, and yet when they need to game, they can still do it on the average PC's they use in their office due to the scalability in performance in PC Games.

And as already mentioned, a decently powerful gaming PC that can run most games at decent framerates costs no more than most consoles, and yet PC's can be used for more than just gaming - I use mine as my primary access to surf the net, manage work documents, and most of all I use the power of my PC in creating digital artwork using image manipulation programs (Photoshop), something I don't think consoles will be able to do for me anytime soon.
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Old 2009-11-10, 11:08   Link #31
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I'm just wondering whether or not the deals available three weeks from now (less) on Black Friday for laptops will be able to run SC2 and Diablo 3. Because if they can, that's amazing. But if they can't, that's a massive fail.
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Old 2009-11-10, 12:09   Link #32
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100% of the electronic games I play are PC. I don't do consoles at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post
... although gaming consoles have more games...
Really? I'd say the PC has a vastly greater amount of games than any one single console.
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Old 2009-11-10, 12:17   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
I'm just wondering whether or not the deals available three weeks from now (less) on Black Friday for laptops will be able to run SC2 and Diablo 3. Because if they can, that's amazing. But if they can't, that's a massive fail.
Hard to say. You're basically pitting the fact Blizzard usually tries to make it's games run on a wide variety of hardware against the fact basic laptops tend to use super crappy Intel GPUs, and from what I've seen these are the type of notebook often promoted for Black Friday.
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Old 2009-11-10, 12:29   Link #34
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pc game is ain't dying afterll

i still have playing GTA IV.. NWN 2, diablo 4..
and waiting for L4D 2 to be released
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Old 2009-11-10, 15:49   Link #35
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you guys made some good points and all but the facts are glaring and spell out doom. Im just adding up the facts and drawing up a very obvious conclusion...


1. There are a multitude of popular gaming sites for ratings, discussion etc. but most of them mostly focus on console, and that is the major attraction. Can you name any very popular pc gaming sites? The fact is, it wouldn't even make sense to make a pc gaming site unless it was some sort of specialized niche gamer site in which it wouldn't be successful at all. On the other hand, if it was a site focused on ps3 zealots or 360 zealots, that would likely be a different story.

2. Consoles have been slowly becoming gaming pc hybrids for a fraction of the cost of gaming rigs as I said before, and I believe it will no longer make sense to buy pc games when you can simply play it on console and use your console to web browse watch movies, etc (which they can already do now btw).

3. As I mentioned above about Voodoo pc and alienware.... Their moves tell the tale. HP hasn't even come out with anymore voodoo desktops which suggest they weren't selling. If people were actually spending that much money on gaming rigs I doubt they would pull them off the market.
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Old 2009-11-10, 16:16   Link #36
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Most sub-$700 laptops won't even handle games at a good framerate with medium graphics quality and resolution. Remember, the not so good visuals can impact your perception of gameplay since it doesn't look good. nVidia Ion laptops are recently coming out which can do some decent game play, but don't expect it to play the most intense games at higher quality since you most likely need to dish out $800+ more dollars for a laptop with decent dedicated graphics...

Desktops tend to be the best for gaming since you can simply upgrade the hardware easily with not costing so much than dishing out more for consoles and accessories.
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Old 2009-11-10, 18:16   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
you guys made some good points and all but the facts are glaring and spell out doom. Im just adding up the facts and drawing up a very obvious conclusion...
I can only answer for the French market for sure but:

Quote:
1. There are a multitude of popular gaming sites for ratings, discussion etc. but most of them mostly focus on console, and that is the major attraction. Can you name any very popular pc gaming sites? The fact is, it wouldn't even make sense to make a pc gaming site unless it was some sort of specialized niche gamer site in which it wouldn't be successful at all. On the other hand, if it was a site focused on ps3 zealots or 360 zealots, that would likely be a different story.
We got one in France (www.canardPC.com), it got game review, hardware review, it host game servers, they even manage to get a print run.

*shrug*

Quote:
2. Consoles have been slowly becoming gaming pc hybrids for a fraction of the cost of gaming rigs as I said before, and I believe it will no longer make sense to buy pc games when you can simply play it on console and use your console to web browse watch movies, etc (which they can already do now btw).
As already said a gaming PC use is not only for gaming, you will also use it for web access, as a multimedia plateforme, printing and whatnot, you will need a modern PC whatever you do, and the cost of a gaming console + working PC is francly is around if not someting higher that a gaming PC.

Quote:
3. As I mentioned above about Voodoo pc and alienware.... Their moves tell the tale. HP hasn't even come out with anymore voodoo desktops which suggest they weren't selling. If people were actually spending that much money on gaming rigs I doubt they would pull them off the market.
In France branded desktop are mostly used at work, people will buy a PC pieces by pieces and have it mounted, it will cost you way less than buying a branded PC and most of the time you will get more for your buck (we have specialised shop that sell parts and will mount you a whole desktop ).
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Old 2009-11-11, 00:01   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
2. Consoles have been slowly becoming gaming pc hybrids for a fraction of the cost of gaming rigs as I said before, and I believe it will no longer make sense to buy pc games when you can simply play it on console and use your console to web browse watch movies, etc (which they can already do now btw).
I think the bit you're missing is that a lot of PC gamers simply don't care that their platform costs a few hundred more. They prefer the control scheme, aren't satisfied with the non-gaming features of consoles, and like "PC style hardcore" games, which actually are noticeably different from most console games in their genres - just compare the Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games developed with the PC in mind to their console counterparts.

And if there's one thing I do know about PC gamers... they tend to be very demanding about what they want from their games. Converting those of us who remain would take a concentrated effort by console makers and developers to cater to us specifically, and nobody seems to really be willing to go to that much trouble.

3. As I mentioned above about Voodoo pc and alienware.... Their moves tell the tale. HP hasn't even come out with anymore voodoo desktops which suggest they weren't selling. If people were actually spending that much money on gaming rigs I doubt they would pull them off the market.[/QUOTE]

Again, very few of us bought these machines. You can build a gaming rig that offers similar performance way, way cheaper. Voodoo and Alienware are targetted at people who want an exclusive machine, not a normal gaming rig.
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Old 2009-11-11, 00:11   Link #39
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
I'm just wondering whether or not the deals available three weeks from now (less) on Black Friday for laptops will be able to run SC2 and Diablo 3. Because if they can, that's amazing. But if they can't, that's a massive fail.
Wouldn't be suprised if a computer from 2004 could play those games. The graphics of each are bad to say the least. Wouldn't be suprised if Blizzard actually cut corners of each game seeing as probably people would still buy it. MW2 anyone?
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Old 2009-11-12, 13:39   Link #40
Demongod86
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I think the bit you're missing is that a lot of PC gamers simply don't care that their platform costs a few hundred more. They prefer the control scheme, aren't satisfied with the non-gaming features of consoles, and like "PC style hardcore" games, which actually are noticeably different from most console games in their genres - just compare the Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games developed with the PC in mind to their console counterparts.

And if there's one thing I do know about PC gamers... they tend to be very demanding about what they want from their games. Converting those of us who remain would take a concentrated effort by console makers and developers to cater to us specifically, and nobody seems to really be willing to go to that much trouble.

3. As I mentioned above about Voodoo pc and alienware.... Their moves tell the tale. HP hasn't even come out with anymore voodoo desktops which suggest they weren't selling. If people were actually spending that much money on gaming rigs I doubt they would pull them off the market.

Again, very few of us bought these machines. You can build a gaming rig that offers similar performance way, way cheaper. Voodoo and Alienware are targetted at people who want an exclusive machine, not a normal gaming rig.
The question is if someone can actually just customize their PC with the regular cost of the products, because the "barebones" systems seem to be going for things like $800, odds are, $600 of which is pure profit . The thing is, I have absolutely no experience in building my own computer, but I can't really find a site that I can say "I want these things in my computer. Built it and ship it please."
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