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Old 2009-11-12, 14:49   Link #41
Mueti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
you guys made some good points and all but the facts are glaring and spell out doom. Im just adding up the facts and drawing up a very obvious conclusion...
They don't spell doom, they spell continually fairly successful niche. And even though sales of PC-games pale in comparison to their console-counterparts they still are rising when you look at absolutes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
3. As I mentioned above about Voodoo pc and alienware.... Their moves tell the tale. HP hasn't even come out with anymore voodoo desktops which suggest they weren't selling. If people were actually spending that much money on gaming rigs I doubt they would pull them off the market.
The downfall of those brands was inevitable and is in no way connected to sales of PC-gaming-hardware in general. Both voodoo and alienware sell/sold rigs where you more often than not paid double the price (or more!) of what the components were actually worth. Not exactly representative if you ask me.


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Originally Posted by plmko View Post
Wouldn't be suprised if a computer from 2004 could play those games. The graphics of each are bad to say the least. Wouldn't be suprised if Blizzard actually cut corners of each game seeing as probably people would still buy it. MW2 anyone?
I wouldn't say they're bad. Blizzard just always tries to keep hardware-requirements as low as possible in order to make their games accessible to a larger demographic. I don't see that as a bad thing. And even though I like my eye-candy, I don't really mind that graphics haven't progressed at all since ~2006/07. Anything with visuals at least on par with HL2 I can still enjoy looking at today. Remember the beginning of the 3D-era? THOSE were bad graphics.

That said, you do realize that Blizzard are screwing with SC2 and Diablo3 in another way, right? Both will have no LAN-mode (which is unacceptable if you ask me). And nobody can tell me that it's coincidence that all games that suddenly try to screw PC-gamers over are published by Activision...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
The question is if someone can actually just customize their PC with the regular cost of the products, because the "barebones" systems seem to be going for things like $800, odds are, $600 of which is pure profit . The thing is, I have absolutely no experience in building my own computer, but I can't really find a site that I can say "I want these things in my computer. Built it and ship it please."
Unless you live in Germany I unfortunately cannot recommend you any site, but I got an individually assembled water-cooled high-end rig last year, which pretty much cost me the price of all components+shipping. I don't know how big such things are elsewhere in the world, but in Germany there's a good amount of fair offers as far as PC-hardware is concerned.
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Old 2009-11-12, 14:59   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
The question is if someone can actually just customize their PC with the regular cost of the products, because the "barebones" systems seem to be going for things like $800, odds are, $600 of which is pure profit . The thing is, I have absolutely no experience in building my own computer, but I can't really find a site that I can say "I want these things in my computer. Built it and ship it please."
I'm not really familar with the US build to spec scene, but I would assume that they charge a bit of a premium. My local computer shop charges a $50 assembly fee on build to order desktops, and the Cyberpower Infinity 6201 - one of the few reasonably priced prebuilts that looks like it has some decent gaming ability - goes for $699 on Newegg, while the parts and operating system to build a similar rig probably cost about $640.

There really isn't a "build you own" market for laptops so I can't say what the price premium for "build to spec" is in the laptop market - I simply don't know the actual parts cost.
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Old 2009-11-12, 18:33   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
The question is if someone can actually just customize their PC with the regular cost of the products, because the "barebones" systems seem to be going for things like $800, odds are, $600 of which is pure profit . The thing is, I have absolutely no experience in building my own computer, but I can't really find a site that I can say "I want these things in my computer. Built it and ship it please."
Where do you live Demongod86?

I use Memory Express and NCIX for my computer parts.

When I shop at NCIX (Online), they have an option for a fee they will put your computer together and test it out to make sure the components work (Yes I am serious, certain pieces of computer hardware may not be compatible with another and you may need to adjust/tweak the BIOs settings to make them work). You really have to do your homework to make sure the components your bringing in will cooperate with each other (My first computer I built 4 years ago I learned the hard way).

But it can't be that much more expensive and I'm pretty sure other places have similar set-ups.

The only time I buy branded computers (mainly dell) is for office use because of their support and simply it looks professional IMO and if something screws up they can come in and help.
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Old 2009-11-12, 19:30   Link #44
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Where do you live Demongod86?

I use Memory Express and NCIX for my computer parts.

When I shop at NCIX (Online), they have an option for a fee they will put your computer together and test it out to make sure the components work (Yes I am serious, certain pieces of computer hardware may not be compatible with another and you may need to adjust/tweak the BIOs settings to make them work). You really have to do your homework to make sure the components your bringing in will cooperate with each other (My first computer I built 4 years ago I learned the hard way).

But it can't be that much more expensive and I'm pretty sure other places have similar set-ups.

The only time I buy branded computers (mainly dell) is for office use because of their support and simply it looks professional IMO and if something screws up they can come in and help.
I know NCIX sells parts to American customers but the built to spec stuff might be for Canadians only. I suppose you could try talking to them. I also suspect that there are probably cheaper retailers based in the US. NCIX is one of the best choices for Canadians though, particularly if you live in the Vancouver area and can pick up from their retail stores to avoid shipping.
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Old 2009-11-12, 20:15   Link #45
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Oh yeah, I'm sure the US has comparables or better shops than the ones in Canada.

NCIX is good though, good support and good products. I like their price matching.

Bought a 4870 X2 Sapphire Radeon Card for only $200. It was $300 but I was able to price match it down to $200 Said they had to verify to make sure I wasn't using a US website (Which I wasn't)

But the fact remains though that while we are a small group compared to consoles, it's still a marketable area, especially with MMORPGs and Strategy games.

Empire Total War sold 800,000 copies in the UK. Unknown about the rest though but it was very successful.

Sins of a Solar Empire sold 400,000 copies I think and they don't use any DRM or STEAM stuff.

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 from what I'm hearing sold 800,000. Now while that is small compared to the millions sold for the Xbox and PS3 they must for sure be making money in that department to not completely ignore the PC group.
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Old 2009-11-13, 12:05   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpian View Post
Are any of you guys still avid pc gamers? (mmo's aside) For 15+ years people have been saying pc gaming is dying, the pc game sections in the stores are shrinking and etc. but do any of you consider yourselves a "PC gamer"? It pretty hard to find anyone of these rare breeds out there, especially amidst all this mindless first person shooter madness.

Wow has pretty much been the only pc game I've been playing for a good while now, since I wouldn't have time for anything else right now... I still remember Nevewinter nights , I thought 2 would have done much better than it did... Do any of you prefer gaming on a pc rather than a console?
Till the day eroge migrate to console and rts can be played at a competive level I will be an avid pc gamer.
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Old 2009-11-14, 23:55   Link #47
Demongod86
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I live in the northeast US (Philly or NYC area depending on whether I'm in school or at home respectively), and probably will be relocating to NYC full time after my stats masters is complete (aspiring Wall Street quant here ).

I don't think Newegg builds spec comps, and I am definitely staying away from cyberpower/Ibuypower (I read some online reviews of them and they're horrible).

So yah...still looking around...my laptop is in its ninth semester, is slow as hell, has its sound busted, and only works because I have a USB keyboard/mouse.
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Old 2009-11-15, 05:13   Link #48
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I'm as hardcore a PC gamer as it gets. So yes, we're alive.

Sadly though, in these bad economic times I haven't the money to update my PC/buy a new one for a while. The newest crop of Bioware legends (Mass Effect, Dragon Age) are out of my -- or more exactly my poor computer's -- reach for now.

Personally, I've always find it hard to control my camera with consoles in 3D games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
I don't think Newegg builds spec comps, and I am definitely staying away from cyberpower/Ibuypower (I read some online reviews of them and they're horrible).
I know this might not be a very useful advice, but if you've got a free weekend it isn't actually that hard to build a PC these days. If you have a friend who can do it for you...even easier and probably cheaper (whether in dollars or free lunches).
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Old 2009-11-15, 05:49   Link #49
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Sadly though, in these bad economic times I haven't the money to update my PC/buy a new one for a while. The newest crop of Bioware legends (Mass Effect, Dragon Age) are out of my -- or more exactly my poor computer's -- reach for now.
Same here, every time I start saving money something pops up and I end up pennyless again. I seriously hope to have a capable computer comes Diablo 3.

I will always be a console gamer at heart, but will always have an interest in pc gaming.
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Old 2009-11-15, 12:18   Link #50
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i don't think pc gaming is a dying breed, but rather pc gaming is moving toward specific game styles such as online mmos and games like star craft and command and conquer. I think one thing that is happening with pcs and consoles alike is that there seems to be a lack of the variety of types of games. The best selling games are normally sequels. I think the reason is most companies are willing to put more time and money into a "safe" product and what happens is you normally wind up with a the sequel being a hit and than alot of mediocre games thrown into the mix.
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Old 2009-11-21, 11:02   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
To me it looks like the whole pc gamer thing is on its way down and will eventually disappear. Look at what happened to the niche market a.k.a. boutique pc vendors... Alienware and Voodoo got out while they were ahead and allowed themselves to be bought out before the bubble bursted. I mean seriously whos going to spend money on a computer just to play a game when you can simply get an Xbox or ps3? Plus you have internet acces, can download movies, games etc. and you are part of a console community via xbox live or their counter part. The line between console and pc is beginning to really blur, and its about to be pointless to buy a "gaming pc".
Well looks like the boutique may not be as dead as you think... Some of the old executives from alienware (who were probably let go/laid off) got together and started up a new boutique company call "Origin PC". These are the people who have been with alienware since before it was purchased by Dell; ~10 years according to the CEO. If the market was truly dying I think he'd be one of the people to know about it, yet hes starting a new company.
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Old 2009-11-21, 12:20   Link #52
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Old 2009-11-21, 15:13   Link #53
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Originally Posted by Scorpian View Post
Well looks like the boutique may not be as dead as you think... Some of the old executives from alienware (who were probably let go/laid off) got together and started up a new boutique company call "Origin PC". These are the people who have been with alienware since before it was purchased by Dell; ~10 years according to the CEO. If the market was truly dying I think he'd be one of the people to know about it, yet hes starting a new company.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

$2000 for a desktop?! $2300 for a laptop?!

ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR MINDS?!

Holy sh!t...

Are there budget boutiques out there that are willing to take very slim profits but in return for recognition and branding and the chance to grow? Aka systems at Cyberpower/Ibuypower price, but not their garbage every-system-is-a-lemon quality?
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Old 2009-11-21, 15:17   Link #54
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doesn't really matter, if you have seen id's statement about hteir new game their also dropping dedicated support, and so in the year ending in 10 pc gaming is one step closer to it's death
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Old 2009-11-21, 18:10   Link #55
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
doesn't really matter, if you have seen id's statement about hteir new game their also dropping dedicated support, and so in the year ending in 10 pc gaming is one step closer to it's death
Nothing new there, seeing as DOOM 3 was released on the Xbox.

I'm not really convinced that ID and Crytek going multiplatform is that big a deal. Does the death of the "incredible eye candy" shooter on PC really mean much for the rest of the PC gaming market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonGod86
Are there budget boutiques out there that are willing to take very slim profits but in return for recognition and branding and the chance to grow? Aka systems at Cyberpower/Ibuypower price, but not their garbage every-system-is-a-lemon quality?
Does IBuyPower have that bad a rep? A lot of their configurations look like they'd be pretty solid with a couple of upgrades (eg. Corsair power supply rather than generic).

I'm not too familiar with build to order sites that don't cost a fortune... normally if people want something "built to spec", I tell them to look at local shops. Maybe you'd have better luck asking around in some other forums?
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Old 2009-11-21, 18:57   Link #56
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

$2000 for a desktop?! $2300 for a laptop?!

ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR MINDS?!

Holy sh!t...

Are there budget boutiques out there that are willing to take very slim profits but in return for recognition and branding and the chance to grow? Aka systems at Cyberpower/Ibuypower price, but not their garbage every-system-is-a-lemon quality?
You can also pay that (and much more) for a Mac, Dell(alienware), or Hp(voodoo). I dont think they're all out of their minds - Im sure there are people out there buying these machines .
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Old 2009-11-21, 20:52   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

$2000 for a desktop?! $2300 for a laptop?!

ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR MINDS?!

Holy sh!t...

Are there budget boutiques out there that are willing to take very slim profits but in return for recognition and branding and the chance to grow? Aka systems at Cyberpower/Ibuypower price, but not their garbage every-system-is-a-lemon quality?
You don't really need such a expensive laptop in order to play the latest games since you can get laptops with pretty decent dedicated graphics card and a fast processor in the 1000s already... Except that depending on the GPU, it may not run at full quality and you may need to adjust the graphics settings...

Then again, high price can suggest higher quality components, but not the case all the time.
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Old 2009-11-21, 22:18   Link #58
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post
You don't really need such a expensive laptop in order to play the latest games since you can get laptops with pretty decent dedicated graphics card and a fast processor in the 1000s already... Except that depending on the GPU, it may not run at full quality and you may need to adjust the graphics settings...

Then again, high price can suggest higher quality components, but not the case all the time.
My one caution here is that the graphics chips and CPUs in those laptops are adequate to run current games pretty well. We don't know how well they'll run future games, and unlike on a desktop, you can't just say "get a decently fast CPU and upgrade the graphics for $100 in two years if you need to", since laptops don't have upgradable graphics. I do think we're seeing less and less PC games that actually push the limits of PC hardware these days, but I'm still not sure I'd trust most laptops to make it through the next three years of games.

(Unless you're talking say, a laptop with a geforce GTX 260m GPU... and those tend to be heavy and lacking in battery life. Maybe this situation will improve when the Nvidia's high end 40nm mobile parts start shipping in actual systems.)
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Old 2009-11-21, 22:45   Link #59
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"Future" and "current" games have had pretty much the same spec-requirements for almost three years now though.
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Old 2009-11-21, 23:55   Link #60
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by Mueti View Post
"Future" and "current" games have had pretty much the same spec-requirements for almost three years now though.
Games certainly don't take as much of a monster PC as they used to, but I'm curious as to how accurate this is. I mean, aren't the Fallout 3 system requirements closer to Oblivion's recommended requirements than Oblivion's minimum, just to give an example from the same company? How much power do games like Far Cry 2 or Resident Evil 5 take to run compared to shooters from 2006?

I could probably test this stuff out considering I still have a 2006-era gaming rig around (Athlon X2, 2GB RAM, Radeon X1900XT) and a stock of games from 2006 to 2009, but I have too much homework to do it right now...

(Edit: Actually... when I think about it, I'm fairly certain that PC requirement have gone up over the past few years. There's a lot more games that need a dual core CPU than there used to be, and you're starting to see a few games that run better with more than two cores (ie Resident Evil 5). I'm not quite as sure on the GPU side... the fact that the resolutions people play at have gone up as a result of the LCD boom makes an apples to apples comparison of graphics required to run 2006 and 2009 games well difficult.)
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