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Old 2009-12-03, 20:45   Link #281
Newhope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
where did she get her "skills" from. fighting yoma and rosemary? Everyone writes that but does not think about the fact that mere age does not give you a better technique.
Been more skilled for claymore doesn't just mean skills with the blade but there ability to use there yoma power more efficiently as well Teresa mentions it in the fight that they learn how to use there yoma abilitys over time. Priscilla was more than likely had more raw power than Teresa but simply didn't have the experience and skill to make that power count.
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Old 2009-12-03, 21:01   Link #282
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Mere age is a big deal in effecting how powerful a warrior can potentially be, Priscilla was a prodigy whose rank was high due to her unusual power, but that doesn't mean she reached her full potential quickly, it just meant that her base power was high enough that she was promoted to #2 immediately and the only reasons he wasn't made #1 is because Teresa was still superior to the newly assigned Priscilla.

Now, we have plenty of evidence that underdeveloped warriors gain power as they mature. Clare herself was barely able to wield a Claymore and was later able to fight well with it despite still being weaker then other warriors.

We know Miria's rank was elevated from a lower rank to #8 before her partial-awakening over time because she developed her abilties further and matured as a warrior.

Then we have Priscilla, who was stated multiple times (from multiple sources) that she had monstrous potential, which meant her actual power was enough to make her #2 without contest and she could still developing into a more powerful warrior.

Then we have Teresa's own acknowledgment of the threat Priscilla represented. Even stating that in a years time the outcome would be unsure. Her subsequent death, surprise or not, also supports this. If Teresa was really 10x more powerful even a surprise attack would be utterly useless against her.

Later, we even have the Databook (the organization's PoV) that has the Organization's theory that Priscilla had a large well of Yoki that she was unconsciously blocking off, possibly due to how immense it was and the level of difficult it would take to control from that.

What other people thought was 70-80% could very well have been 5-10% for Priscilla.

Then we have Extra Story 3, which supported the Organizations theory, even though Priscilla had already awakened, she was far from using her 100% power, as both Isley and Rigaldo found out. Rigaldo even goes so far as to describe Priscilla's Yoki as "Limitless," despite having an Abyssal one standing right next to her.

After this, Isley swears loyalty to Priscilla and heads South, and fights Lucalea to theoretically eliminate any threat to Priscilla. Riful measures Priscilla's power and comes to this conclusion that two Abyssal Ones would be the only legitimate threat to her.

Now we have the present, were Priscilla has just defeated Alicia and Beth if their Awakened forms while she herself remained in her human form, and she wasn't even bothering to dodge some of Beth's attacks at all, even in her human form (which is more vulnerable)

The only evidence of her using Yoki at all was to heal her injuries, the rest was pure physical strength and speed. Riful realizes that her evaluation from before was off "a tad"

Which brings up the question, has ANYONE (Teresa included) accurately measured Priscilla's power?

----------

Now people will still argue that despite all this, Teresa was leaps and bounds more powerful then Priscilla, but your still comparing a completely underdeveloped rookie to a more developed and experienced fighter like Teresa.

and if Teresa was really that powerful, no amount of surprise/softness could have gotten her killed, and instead of running from the Organization, she simply could have beat them into submission in a matter of days.

But I have argued all of this before, and evidence only mounts up the longer the Manga is running that Priscilla's true power was indeed greater then anyone expected, but most people choose to ignore that and point fingers at volume 3-4 claiming that Teresa's won with raw-power against Priscilla who was apparently as strong as she ever could be at that time.

Which is why some (not all) people who argue for Teresa thinking they have "proven their point already" because they don't listen to the other side, choosing only to look at their side of the argument while ignoring anything that people like myself point out. Which is why I probably won't bother posting on the subject of Priscilla vs Teresa any further at this time, it really has worn me on me over the past couple of years.
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Old 2009-12-03, 21:51   Link #283
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Arguing interpretations of what happened in the manga proved pointless since both sides do not see the events unfold in the manga in the same manner. I think we should focus on the role Teresa serve in the Manga.

Why does Yagi need to make her stronger then awakened Priscilla, what purpose would that serve in terms of the story?

Why does Yagi make statements, whether be that Teresa's own thoughts, or Rubel's words to hint at Priscilla has potential to surpass Teresa?

Why does recent chapters reinforce again Priscilla's absolute power? It's not just the fight against 2 AO class, but the manner in which she is talking down to awakened Beth and the fact that the parasites seems have no effect on her, are also demonstration of her power.

Prob most of us would agree that there will likely be a confrontation between Clare and Priscilla. We won't know if any death will result from it but a fight between the two will prob occur. The story seems to building towards this climax and seems to be accelerating with the rate AOs and AO class beings dying left and right. If much of the story is set up for this eventual confrontation, starting from Clare, Teresa and Priscilla's first encounter; going through Clare's growth while at the same time using Priscilla to break the power balance and set things in motion; having Teresa be a character that is stronger then Priscilla even as a claymore will make all this build up seems kind of pointless. Even if Clare defeat Priscilla, so what? We already know she will win because she inherited Teresa's power and Teresa is much stronger then Priscilla. Not to mention why waste much of the early chapters to set up the power balance and establish AOs being the pinnacle of awaken beings and having the Org's goal to create AO class controllable ABs, if Teresa can pretty much single handedly kill every AB, AO, destroy Org all by herself if she just release more then 10%.
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:00   Link #284
clarakiss~
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enough~ u.u take this teresa vs. priscilla discussion to the appropriate tread plz... T.T
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:22   Link #285
HegemonKhan
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hopefully the others will follow suit.....

sorry...i just respond to people, if they made a post in the wrong thread, then i end up doing the same thing, since i'm responding to them and to that post they jsut made in the incorrect thread...
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:36   Link #286
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Roflmao, I can't believe you guys actually went and had the discussion
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:39   Link #287
Awakened
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
Been more skilled for claymore doesn't just mean skills with the blade but there ability to use there yoma power more efficiently as well Teresa mentions it in the fight that they learn how to use there yoma abilitys over time. Priscilla was more than likely had more raw power than Teresa but simply didn't have the experience and skill to make that power count.
I agree with you. Been able to use your power efficiently makes all the difference. Priscilla was able to stop Beth' attacks with her fingers, but at the same time Alicia easily cut off her arm and leg.
It looks like Priscilla is able to concentrate yoki where she needs it. She can harden her fingers to stop an attack. Teresa could have done the same thing when she stop Priscilla with only 10% yoki.
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:49   Link #288
Cyclone
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Sugooi's translation doesn't sue "familiar" - so yeah.
Then it's inaccurate
It uses both the words natsukashii and fukai - "familiar" and "deep/profound".

It's a puzzling statement, but not inconsistant. As someone pointed out months ago, Clare herself said in the witch's maw arc that "she only felt such youki[Riful's] once before". She was human at the time of Priscilla, and hadn't met an awakened being since then until the slasher's arc.
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:56   Link #289
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Fantastic chapter! Yuma/Cythia development

Pris is unstoppable, it makes me really wonder just how the hell clare is going to take her down........
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:58   Link #290
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wow.... off topic....

but love your avatar neko pic, nesty !!

i would wolf whistle, but i don't wanna scare her (the neko-girl) away, hehe... though chasing is fun too, ROFL!!
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Old 2009-12-03, 23:02   Link #291
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Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I'll make it quick this time (or not). You didn't state anything new either when you wrote your concerns so I fail to see the problem here. There isn't much to speculate in chapter 98 either. Chapter 98 destroyed some people's argument (you're one of those people I believe) that Teresa would be too strong if she defeated abyssal one so easily. The rest of your post has nothing to do with the newest chapter.
I did state that I was asking for new ideas to old concerns... see below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
First off I admit to being in the camp against the idea of Rosemary being an AO... though I have been rethinking my position on this due to this chapter.

So let me state some of my problems with this train of thought... first off how come no one else noticed this vast new power of Rosemary's. Surely even horrible Yoki sensors would have felt that kind of power and who knows how far away a good sensor would have felt it. If even one warrior reported it why didn't anyone from the org go check Rosemary's remains. Did only Rubel get the news?

Next off, if Teresa fully understood how strong she was why didn't she just go out there and kill the 3 Abyssal Ones? I mean... come one... Teresa loved to kill Yoma and stated she had no problem killing an Awakened Beings. Was she that fearful of the org finding out about her true power level? If so, why? Or was she just afraid of awakening herself and worried she might need to if she took on the 3 of them?

Why didn't Rosemary have a special ability like Isley changing his arms shape, Luciella forming mouths anywhere on her body, or Riful a ball of Blades who seems to have no vital point? I mean she just looked like a big awakened being with some claws... she didn't even have expandable limbs... Was she super armored or something? If so... like it did her any good I guess my point being that the Big Three all had something that made them stand out even if one didn't know there power but Rosemary didn't seem to share that characteristic.

I'm still leaning towards the notion that she was as strong as one could possibly get without being an AO... but if anyone wants to convince me otherwise (and the likely many others like me, surly out there) now is the time. I just ask that you don't blow your argument before you begin by not putting any real thought into it and just repeating the same old rhetoric... please tie in what happened this chapter to your argument. I'm asking since I believe in staying one minded but am failing to see that anything has changed.
Sorry but I believed I was very clear that I was asking for new ideas... either evidence from chapter 98 or theories that were inspired by them. I posted my concerns not to slam the idea of Rosemary being an AO but so people could address them. You attempted too do so... and I'm great full for the attempt but I believed I was clear that I was will to readdress the issue because of several other posts claiming this chapter had new evidence that supported the notion of Rosemary being a full fledged AO.

It wasn't doubt or anything like that that cause me to post that post, so don't misconstrued me as having doubt on my stance on the issue. I just believe in examining new evidence. I was hoping for new ideas based off the chapter that might have addressed just some of the issues I had with the Rosemary being a full AO (for the record I didn't post all of them). I was trying to reach across the isle and listen to there ideas but giving them a heads up on my current discontent with the notion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Cynthia made a map on which she explained that the island is lik a cross and rabona is in the middle of it. The number one is positioned there. Weaker claymores are in the wings, the strongest are in the middle. We know that clare who had a C+ in Yoki-Sensing wasn't even able to directly identify the yoma in raki's town. And she had to touch the people in the rabona cathedral.
I'll respond in two parts...

First off, your incorrect... when Cynthia made the map she said warriors 1-3 were in the center with the weakest Claymore typically near them, also that the other strong warriors were spread out evenly so the power distribution would be consistent. In short... 1-3 where the back up and 4-9 the go to people in each area. It wasn't all the strong warriors in the center and the weak one on the out skirts.

Second... Ah, but all attributes are powered by one's yoki. Look at the data book again, every last person listed in there has skills that are about on par with there yoki level. However there are a few exceptions of a warrior having a skill far beyond there yoki level... Clare's sensing ability is C+ but her yoki was an E, Undine's Yoki was a C but her strength an A, Jean having B yoki but a A+ willpower, Miria having a B+ yoki but a A+ Dexterity (speed) and Leadership, Noel with a B yoki but an A+ Dexterity, and Sophia having a B yoki but an A+ strength. The common link is that all of them have a know factor that they specialize in, which far exceeds were the average warrior at there strength should be. With the exception of Jean's willpower and Miria's leadership abilities all there specialized skills should stay far beyond there yoki level if there yoki level was increased, assuming many of them were still alive to increase there yoki level.

So to put it another way... sure Clare's yoki sensing skills were weak based on her pitiful yoki in the beginning of the story and when compared to a stronger warrior but it was far beyond what another warrior with the same yoki and no specialization in yoki reading would have. So as she got stronger her sensing ability was always beyond what it should be for a none specialized warrior of the same yoki level. Pluis that C+ is only accurate until Clare's partial awakening and likely got even stronger during the Teresa dream sequence.

Also was that supposed to be proof of Teresa being the eyes of the organization... it was all about Clare...

Last edited by Ryus; 2009-12-03 at 23:35.
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Old 2009-12-03, 23:07   Link #292
Joe_fh
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Lol the Teresa vs Priscilla again XD
Seriously this seems like a never ending discussion.

On topic this chapter was awesome in terms of action, suspense and proving a point that Prissy owns all. Plus we had that nice Cynthia Yuma moment and I'm really interested in the outcome. Yuma was the weakest of them all and if she's able to pull it of this time it will serve to show that they've really grown a lot in 7 years (not that we din't see that in Rabona and after that as well but still it will be a good example. It will also show their strong bonds.

On the Priscilla part I have to pretty much agree with Riful said during this chapter- to have such a thing in this world ...seriously I don't believe it's possible to fight her. I mean she was fighting the twins while they were using their full power in her human form (which is way weaker than her awakened form) and she pretty much killed them in a minute or so. Not only that but the way she was talking to them pretty much showed she doesn't even consider them as oponents at all meaning she could have killed them in a second. She cut of Alicia's head by just putting her hand on it. That's an insane amount of strength.
Even the Destryoer (his power level shoud be around 2-3 timse that of an AO since I don't think two AO's combined power in one body could give it much more. At this point though I don't this it stands a chance agains Prissy at all so Clare and the rest fighting her would be pretty much a carnage. Was it just me or in the end Clare didn't recognise the Yoki since she said "what is this yoki" and not something like "It's her" and the likes. Well the one time she saw Prissy she wasn't a Claymore so she shouldn't really know how her yoki feels thus she probably has no idea which makes sense.

Maybe we're just being teased and Clare and co will run the hell out of there as fast as they can without even seing Prissy especially considering the Cynthia and Yuma's situation. Plus fighting all those hellcats would take it's toll so sensing something that killed two AO's in a second screams "run" at least to me. Later they might meat Riful who'll say something important to them and then have the big fight...or not. We'll see but this sounds plausable to me.

We didn't get to see who Priscilla was talking about from last time though. Also we saw some interesting things about the soul linking and in the end both Alicia and Beth acted on their emotions. It was actually a bit disappointing to see them get killed so fast and easy plus aliked their awakened forms a lot. Well sadly we won't be seing much of them from now on. Wonder what the MiB will do after everything they tried failed completely, or more like the things we know they tried failed.

And on the topic of Rosemary being an AO i think she was. It was said that when a Claymore rank 1 awakens it get labeld and AO. I believe Rubel found out about Rosemary and he covered it up. He seems to be working closely with the "eyes" so he could have done it without a problem. If the organization knew about her power they would have had the perfect Claymore to use it the war since she was the most powerful one they've ever seen (stronger that an AO without awakening) and she could be given orders to since she was human and in their care (unlike the AOs) This would have been a problem for Rubel though.

At that time Teresa pretty much said it's good to use her yoki once in a while. Even if she realized how strong she was she would never have kille the 3 AO since the organization would have found out about her power. She never used her yoki in front of them so she had a reason to hide it. No idea why though. Also Alicia and Beth are (ok were) AO's and they didn't seem to have any special traints like the other 3 AO and yet they had the same power level. So I don't think that's what makes an AO.

Last edited by Joe_fh; 2009-12-03 at 23:19.
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Old 2009-12-03, 23:12   Link #293
Cyclone
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Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
I think the argument persists because those who find Priscilla to be stronger cannot quite comprehend how Teresa is supported in this argument when she was decapitated by the fighter she is supposed to be superior to. And that was before Priscilla really reached her potential.

I mean, the problem with the arguments on the other side, is that, first off, they are bias because they are put forth by people who clearly favor Teresa as a character more so than Priscilla (in most cases, they actually hate Priscilla). While this is a testament to how good of a villain she is, that is, because she inspires so much rage in people, it really does not serve the purpose of trying to bring clarity to this debate. The fact that Priscilla cheats to win also magnifies this problem (although, seen objectively, this is a big plus in determining who is stronger, i.e., she is willing to do anything to win).

I for one, much prefer Teresa, but at the same time, I think that at best, it might take the present incarnation of Priscilla 30 seconds to decapitate her (which, by the way, she already did before--see how perverse it is to argue in the contrary?).

Another huge problem, and this is the one that rankles me, is that most arguments favoring Teresa while outright silly to begin with, are made even more so because they are not based on any sort of tangible data or information from the story.

What we get is often rampant speculation, conjecture, and interpretation of vague statements.

When people argue that Priscilla is stronger, they usually point to objective data, you know, like:

- Isley bowed down to her after being demolished by her, when, she was clearly not taking him seriously.
- How Riful wets herself when in her presence.
- How she defeated Beth and Alicia in roughly 4 seconds, when, once again, she was clearly not taking them seriously.
- And oh, yeah, she decapitated Teresa.

One last note, when did cunning not factor into these discussions? Or, for that matter, showing weakness?
I can't stop laughing. Do you realize how silly your "factual" argument is?
Priscilla is stronger than Teresa because... Isley, Riful, Alicia and Beth are weaker than Priscilla... uh huh. What makes you think that Teresa would have not created a similar reaction?

As for the decapitation... Priscilla going almost all out 80+% beat a Teresa who was at 0% and off gaurd. That's conclusive proof for you? Do you work for Hadley CRU by any chance?

Teresa is stronger, becuase when fighting, she kicked Priscilla's ass, and told us she could do it again anytime Priscilla tried it again. QED.
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Old 2009-12-03, 23:26   Link #294
khryoleoz
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I can't stop laughing. Do you realize how silly your "factual" argument is?
Priscilla is stronger than Teresa because... Isley, Riful, Alicia and Beth are weaker than Priscilla... uh huh. What makes you think that Teresa would have not created a similar reaction?

As for the decapitation... Priscilla going almost all out 80+% beat a Teresa who was at 0% and off gaurd. That's conclusive proof for you? Do you work for Hadley CRU by any chance?

Teresa is stronger, becuase when fighting, she kicked Priscilla's ass, and told us she could do it again anytime Priscilla tried it again. QED.
Hadley CRU! Oh no you didn't? ROFL! I'm not an anthropogenic climate change guy, but dude, that's pretty cold man!
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Old 2009-12-03, 23:34   Link #295
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careful.... I'm in an anthropology class..... just about to have my finals in it...

if not careful, I may get into a lecture.... (not here though, maybe a PM or whatever, lol)

though i didn't know this hadley cru thing is just the group of "politcal evironmentalists" that got their lying propanga (err.. being redundant.. i think as propaganda is lying. the lying lying lol) exposed to the world. so i was disappointed... i thought this actually had something to do with anthropology... lol

Last edited by HegemonKhan; 2009-12-03 at 23:48.
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Old 2009-12-04, 01:09   Link #296
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Old 2009-12-04, 01:44   Link #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
I can't stop laughing. Do you realize how silly your "factual" argument is?
Priscilla is stronger than Teresa because... Isley, Riful, Alicia and Beth are weaker than Priscilla... uh huh. What makes you think that Teresa would have not created a similar reaction?

As for the decapitation... Priscilla going almost all out 80+% beat a Teresa who was at 0% and off gaurd. That's conclusive proof for you? Do you work for Hadley CRU by any chance?

Teresa is stronger, becuase when fighting, she kicked Priscilla's ass, and told us she could do it again anytime Priscilla tried it again. QED.
Actually, there is a very simple reasoning that I'm surprised that no one here has used yet. It's called the rule of Dragonball. Teresa was the strongest person around in chapter 24, as we are now in chapter 96 your averaged joe schmo is stronger than her. As was clearly shown in DBZ, being the strongest in the world means nothing in the face of 1 or 2 chapters of training. The only reason why the AO and Priscilla are still on top is because they do mental training every day. As a result their power doubles every chapter. As the manga which defined power levels, I don't see why people don't use it to clarify power levels. The rule of Dragonball is the best rule when trying to understand power levels.
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Old 2009-12-04, 01:46   Link #298
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Originally Posted by necrosis6 View Post
Actually, there is a very simple reasoning that I'm surprised that no one here has used yet. It's called the rule of Dragonball. Teresa was the strongest person around in chapter 24, as we are now in chapter 96 your averaged joe schmo is stronger than her. As was clearly shown in DBZ, being the strongest in the world means nothing in the face of 1 or 2 chapters of training. The only reason why the AO and Priscilla are still on top is because they do mental training every day. As a result their power doubles every chapter. As the manga which defined power levels, I don't see why people don't use it to clarify power levels. The rule of Dragonball is the best rule when trying to understand power levels.
Necrosis, what manga are we reading again?

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Old 2009-12-04, 02:08   Link #299
Gooral
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Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
(...)
Sorry but I believed I was very clear that I was asking for new ideas... either evidence from chapter 98 or theories that were inspired by them. I posted my concerns not to slam the idea of Rosemary being an AO but so people could address them. You attempted too do so... and I'm great full for the attempt but I believed I was clear that I was will to readdress the issue because of several other posts claiming this chapter had new evidence that supported the notion of Rosemary being a full fledged AO. (...)
lol
So you were just naive you say? Because having new ideas about Rosemary after reading this chapter would be the same as having new ideas about Rosemary after reading 5th volume. What's even more funny, you were hoping for new ideas even though you yourself presented only old concerns based only on the fact that Yagi didn't explain it explicitly. They can however be easily and convincingly explained as I've shown. Your counter-argumentation was all about "it's not proof" or writing smilies, i.e. it wasn't even worth responding. Next time just don't bring up Rosemary naively hoping that someone would write new ideas but wait until someone really writes it. Simple as that.
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Old 2009-12-04, 02:29   Link #300
HegemonKhan
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Alicia vs Isley

1. isley was ultimately killed (through their attrition of him for/over ~1 whole year) by the Abyss Feeders. he NEVER destroyed all of them, let alone in a single attack. (Isley < Abyss Feeders)
2. Alicia (probably-seems so) destroyed all the Abyss feeders in a single attack. (Alicia > Abyss Feeders)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
therefore 1: Alicia > Abyss Feeders > Isley
therefore 2: Alicia > Isley
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