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Old 2009-12-10, 20:42   Link #541
SagaraSouske
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Oh, I read it. I guess I don't visit those forums enough because I can't believe it

But uh....we shouldn't be talking about World of Warcraft anyway
We are not talking about WoW btw.
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Old 2009-12-10, 22:01   Link #542
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Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta View Post
To be honest, in this thread, we shouldn't be talking about Teresa vs. Prissy, since there is a thread for that too.
Oh don't play innocent. You and I have had the debate on these threads too
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Old 2009-12-11, 02:08   Link #543
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i too, have never participated in such a discussion... *halo appears above her head*
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Old 2009-12-11, 03:37   Link #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
You never stated that you don't believe Teresa is stronger then Awakened Priscilla. This was the argument between the two camps always focused on. You have always sided with those that believe Teresa is stronger then awakened Priscilla and I have always said Teresa can only be stronger then awakened Priscilla on if she awakened herself and is only stronger then claymore Priscilla as a claymore. If you are only stating Claymore Teresa is stronger then Claymore Priscilla even if Priscilla had a chance to grow as a claymore, that's a view I have no problem with.

As for Teresa's words, Rosemary's str etc, all that were used to support the argument that claymore Teresa is not stronger then AB Priscilla. I think you may have misread a lot of the posts centered on this particular argument.

As for the motif I mentioned, it actually matters more here. Because Clare is not simply a student of Teresa, she actually physically inherited Teresa's flesh and blood. It begets the Ai yori Aoshii to have a stronger influence in this case. Besides, to fight a awakened Priscilla, Clare will have to be stronger then Claymore Teresa.

If Teresa is not used as Clare's potential, or what you call core, then the motif will not apply at all. There would be no Ai for the Aoshii to originate from. Thus Teresa has to be there for Ai yori Aoshii to apply. Plus, I said it is a combination of Teresa's legacy and Clare's own abilities that allow her to possibly exceed Teresa, as it would be true in most cases of student exceeding their master. If the student is more talented then the master and become stronger because of his own greater potential, this motif would not apply.
We seem to have a somewhat different approach to this.
When I say: Teresa > Priscilla, I mean claymore vs claymore or AB vs AB.
You hear me say: claymore Teresa > AB Priscilla.
I really have no solid opinions on the later (I like to think Teresa would still win [because that's just how awesome Teresa is], but I consider the point irrelevant and don't give it much thought). But when I read simply "Priscilla > Teresa" like you and others seem to like to shorthand, I read claymore vs claymore or AB vs AB, and naturally I respond with: "poppycock!"

In claymore, one of the themes is that when you awaken, the person you were is no longer. For all intents and purposes, you die as a human. When Priscilla awakened, all that was left was a monster that happened to share her name. All the flashback power comparrisons were between claymore Teresa and claymore Priscilla. If transformation into a monster does not stop the comparison (like it does for me), then the question: "who would be stronger if they fought all out - Teresa or Priscilla?" can still only be answered by "Teresa". Afterall, Teresa could awaken too if she wanted to (at which point she'd be stronger for sure). Why impose a handicap on Teresa by telling her what she can't do?

My point about the "master/student" motif is that all Teresa gave Clare was potential. The whole point of the "student surpassing the master" motif is that student has more talent or a greater work ethic or something else which is what eventually makes them stronger then the master (after the master teaches them all they know). For this motif to work, Clare would have to exhibit some traits which are superior to Teresa's. Yagi did not leave all that much room there... The only aspect in which Clare has even a remote advantage is based on the Clare Chimera project (Clare taking on the hopes, dreams, and random body parts of a whole bunch of other people - Irene, Ophelia, Flora, etc...). The way the Teresa story is written though, I just don't see it though.

All of Clare's skills have been self taught. Since all that Teresa gives Clare is the potential for greatness, the "student surpassing the master" implies Clare could be better than Teresa all along (and, as you say, with greater inate talent, the motif would not apply). In which case, there is no point for having Teresa - Clare could just as easily surpass anyone using nameless claymore #43 as a core, by virtue of her own potential.

But anyways, since we seem to agree that
claymore Teresa > claymore Priscilla
and AB Teresa > AB Priscilla
and I refuse to get into the debate of claymore Teresa vs AB Priscilla,
how about we wrap this discussion up?
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Old 2009-12-11, 03:38   Link #545
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Originally Posted by clarakiss~ View Post
i too, have never participated in such a discussion... *halo appears above her head*
Oh - likewise. Never crossed my mind...
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Old 2009-12-11, 04:19   Link #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Oh don't play innocent. You and I have had the debate on these threads too
Not playing innocent, I was a guilty participant in this very same discussion *last* month, which is why I can't believe it is going on again this month, and for so long.
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Old 2009-12-11, 05:13   Link #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
1 = 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 + ...
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + ...
= 1 + sum_i=1:inf (-1+1)
with sum_i=1:inf(-1+1) = 0 we can see easily that 1 = 1.
All I got from this discussion was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clue
Wadsworth: The game's up, Scarlet. There are no more bullets left in that gun.
Miss Scarlet: Oh, come on, you don't think I'm gonna fall for that old trick?
Wadsworth: It's not a trick. There was one shot at Mr. Boddy in the Study; two for the chandelier; two at the Lounge door and one for the singing telegram.
Miss Scarlet: That's not six.
Wadsworth: One plus two plus two plus one.
Miss Scarlet: Uh-uh, there was only one shot that got the chandelier. That's one plus two plus *one* plus one.
Wadsworth: Even if you were right, that would be one plus one plus two plus one, not one plus *two* plus one plus one.
Miss Scarlet: Okay, fine. One plus two plus one... Shut up! The point is, there is one bullet left in this gun and guess who's gonna get it!
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Old 2009-12-11, 07:08   Link #548
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I don't get it either. Maybe it's a little bit too complex for me. One other thing for me is that I don't think there was any other battle like the one that took place between Priscilla and Teresa.
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Old 2009-12-11, 08:56   Link #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta View Post
To be honest, in this thread, we shouldn't be talking about Teresa vs. Prissy, since there is a thread for that too.
Yeah, lets talk instead about Yuma and Cynthia. Let's hope Yuma can do it, because if she fails, they'll be lucky if Cynthia just dies. And what's Claire going to do when she finds out Priscilla is near?
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Old 2009-12-11, 09:37   Link #550
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
0.999 is equal to 1. I will show you proof now.

1/3 is 0.333
2/3 is 0.666

It follows that 3/3 is 0.999

But we also know that a number divided by itself is 1. Ergo, if 3/3 is 1, then 1 is also 0.999
To be more precise, you should add "..." after those numbers because they are recuring decimal.
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Old 2009-12-11, 11:08   Link #551
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Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
To be more precise, you should add "..." after those numbers because they are recuring decimal.
True, I was simply too lazy and I forgot
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Old 2009-12-11, 11:12   Link #552
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Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta View Post
Not playing innocent, I was a guilty participant in this very same discussion *last* month, which is why I can't believe it is going on again this month, and for so long.

Are you implying there's ever been a stop to the debate?

Oh, you poor confused Gangsta...

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Old 2009-12-11, 11:48   Link #553
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
You used the word unobtainable to describe latent. There is a difference between able to have something and been unable to have it.
I didn't say it was unobtainable forever... I said it was next to impossible to access, especially in a short time period. Like that of a single battle. I mean come on, I used Clare as an example. How many times has she gained a small portion of the latent power but always failing to get anything close to a portion of her total possible latent power. Next we have to take into consideration that Clare is partially awakened and Priscilla wasn't when she fought Teresa. Clare's partial awakening being what gave her access to her latent power but Priscilla awakening giving her access to all of her latent power.

Also all you nay sayers of Priscilla not gaining any latent power upon her awakening. The above (Clare gaining access to Teresa's power after her partial awakening) is exhibit A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
I edited my post and gave Priscilla a Claymore.

I don't care how Ophelia won, you are the one that keep bringing up details. You are also making allot of assumption about what I think, without any evidence.
My point was that if the AB knew that breaking Ophelia's neck wouldn't have killed her then she would have just simply ripped her in two. She had the opportunity and desire to do so. She showed no hesitation in killing her, or what she thought would kill her.

Say what you want but power wise one on one the AB trumped Ophelia... Just like Teresa kicked Priscilla's butt, however Priscilla still won. It wasn't until she dropped her guard that Ophelia killed her. True in the end Ophelia was better, if the claim to victory is just survival, but that was more of a way of showing us Ophelia was just about as strong as a single digit AB and that she was a huge treat to Clare. It isn't proof that Ophelia went on AB hunts all the time by herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
I like how you said that you think that Priscilla is way stonger than Teresa, but at the same time you shy away from saying that Priscilla at 80% could be stronger than an AO.

Edit:
You said that there is no basis for Rosemary's power and if she was at AO level. You continently ignore the fact that she was a #1, she thought she was at #1 lvl (the reason why she wanted to kill Teresa), Teresa pretended that she would have been unable to kill a #1 Ab (Rosemary).

You said " aka exactly as she was when she killed Teresa? No changes? If so... ". Its interesting that you are able to make unequivocal statement about Priscilla's power when it's convenient for you.
You also did not give any facts on why Priscilla had no chance.
I shy away from saying Priscilla could beat an AO back then because we have no proof of it. I mean it's likely but I can't prove it... though at 79.999% power she'd just more likely lose control and awaken (again) .

We don't have any proof or indication of Rosemary's power compared to an AO other then her being a former #1. I have on many occasions listed why I believe her being a #1 doesn't mean that she was that strong (at least have a dozen times on this very thread). Rosemary being our only way to gauge Teresa's power and Teresa being Priscilla's only known opponent other then a few dozen Yoma form her time as a Claymore.

Look at it this way. Rosemary was a number 1 who was replaced by someone the organization thought was dozens of times weaker then she truly was. Rosemary wasn't even given the opportunity to fight Teresa for the position. The organization just knew she couldn't win against Teresa, once again they believed Teresa was at least 10 times weaker then she was, I see that as proof of Rosemary not being a true AO (close but no cigar). So I don't believe Rosemary was a true AO upon her awakening. Nor do I think she was a true number 1 as a warrior but just stronger then the average #2, that's why she was replaced without a fight (or even the option to fight).

I believe Teresa knew exactly how strong she was and yet she too believed Priscilla could one day challenge her. Which is why I believe Priscilla is at least her equal and likely greater.
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Old 2009-12-11, 12:16   Link #554
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus
I believe Teresa knew exactly how strong she was and yet she too believed Priscilla could one day challenge her. Which is why I believe Priscilla is at least her equal and likely greater.
Perhaps you are right but think about that:
Priscilla emitted no yoki and we know that priscilla is the best known yoki suppressor, probably even better than rafaella.
Only by exchanging a few blows theresa knew this? I don't think that this would be enough for a real estimation and in the end theresa sounded far more confident. But i give you that, this comment theresa made is imo the only real thing which supports the priscilla was inexperienced and could become stronger theory. But the ghosts could become stronger too with hard training. What is interesting in the end is the raw potential without training or experience of both warriors and here, i believe that theresa was far superior even to priscilla.
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Old 2009-12-11, 12:23   Link #555
Ryus
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Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Perhaps you are right but think about that:
Priscilla emitted no yoki and we know that priscilla is the best known yoki suppressor, probably even better than rafaella.
Only by exchanging a few plows theresa knew this? I don't think that this would be enough for a real estimation and in the end theresa sounded far more confident.


Priscilla released her yoki... they fought for a bit, then Teresa beat her and held a sword over her head knowing Priscilla's potential, yet couldn't kill her since she thought of Clare.

Teresa could easily sense Priscilla once she released her yoki. It doesn't matter how good you are at concealing it once it's released any good sensor has the potential to sense it.

Also how do you think Riful found Raphaela/Luciela in a steam hidden in a forest, especially after Luciela died? It was most likely Raphaela's yoki release when she was breaking her sister's back... though it is possible she just happened to stumble by but far less likely.
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Old 2009-12-11, 13:38   Link #556
irvinethearcher
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Originally Posted by Ryus View Post


Priscilla released her yoki... they fought for a bit, then Teresa beat her and held a sword over her head knowing Priscilla's potential, yet couldn't kill her since she thought of Clare.

Teresa could easily sense Priscilla once she released her yoki. It doesn't matter how good you are at concealing it once it's released any good sensor has the potential to sense it.

Also how do you think Riful found Raphaela/Luciela in a steam hidden in a forest, especially after Luciela died? It was most likely Raphaela's yoki release when she was breaking her sister's back... though it is possible she just happened to stumble by but far less likely.
Please reread the chapter and spare me with the .

When Theresa said, "i may beat her know but..." priscilla still had no yoki released at all! source: om 21 page 4.

What you are talking about are irene's thoughts not theresa's. Source om 22 08.
After theresa spared priscilla and finally sensed her yoki she said: You can come after me as often as you want, i'll cut you down every time! Source: om 22 12.
See, that sounds more confident to me.
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Old 2009-12-11, 14:06   Link #557
SagaraSouske
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
We seem to have a somewhat different approach to this.
When I say: Teresa > Priscilla, I mean claymore vs claymore or AB vs AB.
You hear me say: claymore Teresa > AB Priscilla.
I really have no solid opinions on the later (I like to think Teresa would still win [because that's just how awesome Teresa is], but I consider the point irrelevant and don't give it much thought). But when I read simply "Priscilla > Teresa" like you and others seem to like to shorthand, I read claymore vs claymore or AB vs AB, and naturally I respond with: "poppycock!"

In claymore, one of the themes is that when you awaken, the person you were is no longer. For all intents and purposes, you die as a human. When Priscilla awakened, all that was left was a monster that happened to share her name. All the flashback power comparrisons were between claymore Teresa and claymore Priscilla. If transformation into a monster does not stop the comparison (like it does for me), then the question: "who would be stronger if they fought all out - Teresa or Priscilla?" can still only be answered by "Teresa". Afterall, Teresa could awaken too if she wanted to (at which point she'd be stronger for sure). Why impose a handicap on Teresa by telling her what she can't do?

My point about the "master/student" motif is that all Teresa gave Clare was potential. The whole point of the "student surpassing the master" motif is that student has more talent or a greater work ethic or something else which is what eventually makes them stronger then the master (after the master teaches them all they know). For this motif to work, Clare would have to exhibit some traits which are superior to Teresa's. Yagi did not leave all that much room there... The only aspect in which Clare has even a remote advantage is based on the Clare Chimera project (Clare taking on the hopes, dreams, and random body parts of a whole bunch of other people - Irene, Ophelia, Flora, etc...). The way the Teresa story is written though, I just don't see it though.

All of Clare's skills have been self taught. Since all that Teresa gives Clare is the potential for greatness, the "student surpassing the master" implies Clare could be better than Teresa all along (and, as you say, with greater inate talent, the motif would not apply). In which case, there is no point for having Teresa - Clare could just as easily surpass anyone using nameless claymore #43 as a core, by virtue of her own potential.

But anyways, since we seem to agree that
claymore Teresa > claymore Priscilla
and AB Teresa > AB Priscilla
and I refuse to get into the debate of claymore Teresa vs AB Priscilla,
how about we wrap this discussion up?
Sure we can wrap this up regarding Teresa and AB Pris. On the Ai Yori Aoshii motif though, it has a much broader context then just student/master. It is most commonly used in that scenario but can be applied to parents/children, descendants/ancestors, or in this case physically receive a portion of another.

On the point of talent, the motif only applies if the student is similarly or less talented then the master, or children vs parents, etc. if the student is more talented, it no longer applies. If Azure is already better the Blue, the origination from Blue does not matter.
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Old 2009-12-11, 14:07   Link #558
Ryus
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Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Please reread the chapter and spare me with the .

When Theresa said, "i may beat her know but..." priscilla still had no yoki released at all! source: om 21 page 4




Please reread the whole marked for death arc and especially my post.

I never said Teresa drew the conclusion based on the yoki release (her exact reasoning was never mentioned). You filled in that detail yourself. All I said was that when Priscilla's yoki was released Teresa could easily sense it. I then stated that after sensing the yoki she was still fearful of Priscilla's potential. This being indicated by Teresa about to chop off Priscilla's head but then commenting she couldn't do it because she thought of Clare. The rest was just banter as indicated by Teresa's actions and listed thought process... CLARE not now that I can sense her I know she's no threat to me.

Then show me were in the manga Teresa says she can't sense at all Priscilla. She only said "I didn't sense her aura at all" (past tense) and then Irene said Teresa couldn't sense Priscilla since her aura was suppressed. This isn't the anime were Teresa said "I couldn't... I still can't sense her". You filled in that detail yourself too. Do you get the implication now? Maybe Teresa was able to sense her after she noticed she was there... just like she did to Raphaela. Teresa, at least at short range, could sense suppressed auras with her eyes still in their sockets (if she was looking for them).

Last edited by Ryus; 2009-12-11 at 14:26.
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Old 2009-12-11, 14:54   Link #559
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Renee couldn't sense awakened being priscilla's aura until she touched her. So there should be no way to sense priscilla in her claymore form even for a supersensor as theresa was. And another problem is that if she nearly emits no yoki at all how would theresa be able to measure her potential with that pitty amount of yoki leaking out? Priscilla's suppression ability is not the same as that of the ghosts if i remember correctly it has another sign for it in the databooks. It seems to be an inborn ability special to only priscilla.

With your "past tense":

there was another one, but i didn't sense her aura at all. what is she?

This can be interpreted different ways.
1. theresa can sense her aura now like she could sense a glimpse of rafaella's aura.
2. She couldn't sense her aura during she jumped(this action is now over) from the window with clare and still can't now.

I will say something about it, when someone translates this from the raw.

I never said that you said that theresa measured priscilla's strength by yoki alone when she said "i may beat..." but i doubted and still doubt that she could make a good estimation of priscilla's power/potential without measuring her strength by her yoki and by only exchanging a few blows with her.
And remeber what you wrote here, that was the post i responded to:
Quote:
Priscilla released her yoki... they fought for a bit, then Teresa beat her and held a sword over her head knowing Priscilla's potential, yet couldn't kill her since she thought of Clare.

Teresa could easily sense Priscilla once she released her yoki. It doesn't matter how good you are at concealing it once it's released any good sensor has the potential to sense it.

Also how do you think Riful found Raphaela/Luciela in a steam hidden in a forest, especially after Luciela died? It was most likely Raphaela's yoki release when she was breaking her sister's back... though it is possible she just happened to stumble by but far less likely.
There is absolutely nothing here spoken about your "past tense" argument. Forgive me if i have not the time to read every post you made at the least 2 - 3 pages. There is only "Theresa could easily sense her yoki once she released it", well that was clearly after theresa made that comment. Perhaps you have a point here but i will wait until someone translates this from the raw.
So i even searched for this argument the last pages but i couldn't find it.
Another thing here seems very wrong to me: If theresa was convinced that priscilla somehow could reach her with an high probability she probably would have killed her for clare's sake, i think.
So she IMO said to herself that this rookie would probably never become strong enough to beat her and that the little risk was not worth taking priscilla's life.

Quote:
I see that as proof of Rosemary not being a true AO
That indicates, not proves, that rosemary was perhaps not a true AO. But there are enough things who indicates that rosemary WAS an AO. The word "proof" is something which disturbes me here.
Look at it this way, the org beliefes that miata has the potential despite alicia and beth to become number one but alicia and beth are undoubtley AO level. Miata can become something better but that doesn't mean that she is near priscilla or theresa's potential.
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Old 2009-12-11, 16:07   Link #560
Ryus
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First off thanks for editing your post... You drove me nuts trying to reply back. Whole sections went missing which I had typed quite a lot in response to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Renee couldn't sense awakened being priscilla's aura until she touched her. So there should be no way to sense priscilla in her claymore form even for a supersensor as theresa was. And another problem is that if she nearly emits no yoki at all how would theresa be able to measure her potential with that pitty amount of yoki leaking out? Priscilla's suppression ability is not the same as that of the ghosts if i remember correctly it has another sign for it in the databooks. It seems to be an inborn ability special to only priscilla.
Ah... but was Renee looking for yoki in Priscilla before Priscilla gained her attention? Also, she hadn't feed in 7 years so what makes you think she had released her yoki at that point? There's been no mention if AB can or can't suppress their auras.

Also we have no way of knowing if Raphaela's yoki was already completely suppressed or not. You seem to be implying it wasn't completely gone. All we know is that Teresa seemed to imply that it hadn't, yet that's not proof that that was true. We are talking about what a trainee sensed here, it's not like we know that she had any training with suppressed auras yet and could tell the difference between a completely suppressed aura that she could still sense or just a aura in the process of being suppressed.

Your point is moot. You can't confirm how good of a sensor Renee is, how masked Priscilla aura was, if Priscilla unintentionally used very little amounts of Yoki during her fight with Teresa, or how good at sensing Teresa was.

Sure, my point is view is just speculation but it is founded based on what's actually in the manga. I haven't changed any facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
With your "past tense":

there was another one, but i didn't sense her aura at all. what is she?

This can be interpreted different ways.
1. theresa can sense her aura now like she could sense a glimpse of rafaella's aura.
2. She couldn't sense her aura during she jumped(this action is now over) from the window with clare.
Not sure I follow your meaning for #2 please rephrase it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
I will say something about it, when someone translates this from the raw.

I never said that you said that theresa measured priscilla's strength by yoki alone when she said "i may beat..." but i doubted and still doubt that she could make a good estimation of priscilla's power/potential without measuring her strength by her yoki and by only exchanging a few blows with her.
And remeber what you wrote here, that was the post i responded to:


Quote:
Priscilla released her yoki... they fought for a bit, then Teresa beat her and held a sword over her head knowing Priscilla's potential, yet couldn't kill her since she thought of Clare.

Teresa could easily sense Priscilla once she released her yoki. It doesn't matter how good you are at concealing it once it's released any good sensor has the potential to sense it.

Also how do you think Riful found Raphaela/Luciela in a steam hidden in a forest, especially after Luciela died? It was most likely Raphaela's yoki release when she was breaking her sister's back... though it is possible she just happened to stumble by but far less likely.
There is absolutely nothing here spoken about your "past tense" argument. Forgive me if i have not the time to read every post you made at the least 2 - 3 pages. There is only "Theresa could easily sense her yoki once she released it", well that was clearly after theresa made that comment. Perhaps you have a point here but i will wait until someone translates this from the raw.
So i even searched for this argument the last pages but i couldn't find it.
Another thing here seems very wrong to me: If theresa was convinced that priscilla somehow could reach her with an high probability she probably would have killed her for clare's sake, i think.
So she IMO said to herself that this rookie would probably never become strong enough to beat her and that the little risk was not worth taking priscilla's life.
Here is what you said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Please reread the chapter and spare me with the .

When Theresa said, "i may beat her know but..." priscilla still had no yoki released at all! source: om 21 page 4.

What you are talking about are irene's thoughts not theresa's. Source om 22 08.
After theresa spared priscilla and finally sensed her yoki she said: You can come after me as often as you want, i'll cut you down every time! Source: om 22 12.
See, that sounds more confident to me.
You told me exactly what I was think and what lines I was thinking of. So you just couldn't me more wrong about you not telling me what I was thinking. You flat out implied I was commenting about Irene's comments and not Priscilla's eyes going gold, followed by Teresa's actions of getting ready to behead her, then saying she couldn't since she thought of Clare. You also said that I missed Teresa's thoughts on Priscilla on om 21 page 4.

All I was saying was that once Priscilla released her yoki she would be able to read her much better. Then after she had that opportunity she still contemplated beheading her and was only dissuaded by thinking of Clare. In short, Teresa first impression of Priscilla trued out to be since her actions were still that of precaution against a possible threat.

As to your comment of my lack of having a "past tense" word, your wrong I did have such a word. It was in the very sentence you bolded... ONCE. It is a past tense word.


Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Quote:
I see that as proof of Rosemary not being a true AO
That indicates, not proves, that rosemary was perhaps not a true AO. But there are enough things who indicates that rosemary WAS an AO. The word "proof" is something which disturbes me here.
Look at it this way, the org beliefes that miata has the potential despite alicia and beth to become number one but alicia and beth are undoubtley AO level. Miata can become something better but that doesn't mean that she is near priscilla or theresa's potential.
I clearly stated that was my opinion with the "I see that as" part.

I take it English isn't your first language. Well, no worries. I won't hold it against you.

I'll rephrase "The following leads me to believe that..."

As to your comment that there was things to indicate that Rosemary was an AO (besides her number) name one.

--------------------------------
You edited this past out... However, I spotted your post only moments after you posted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Perhaps you are right but think about that:
Priscilla emitted no yoki and we know that priscilla is the best known yoki suppressor, probably even better than rafaella.
Only by exchanging a few plows theresa knew this? I don't think that this would be enough for a real estimation and in the end theresa sounded far more confident.
I was going to have real fun with this part but since you took it out I'm going to play fair and not retort.
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