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Old 2009-12-03, 19:16   Link #81
Battler-kun
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Buggy is nothing more than a clown (surprise).
He was already defeated by Luffy at the very beginning of One Piece.
He is not worth mentioning as a serious opponent.
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Old 2009-12-03, 19:19   Link #82
SilverSyko
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I'm looking forward to seeing Sengoku in action.

Being the current Fleet Admiral and one of the significant figures from Gold Roger's time must mean he has quite the power behind him.

Question is whether or not he has a devil fruit. If he doesn't and since he's a higher rank than the 3 admirals which all have logias, that's a pretty freakin' strong dude.
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Old 2009-12-03, 19:34   Link #83
marvelB
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^So far the only thing we can be certain of is that Sengoku and Garp are around the same level of strength, as chapter 0 indicates. At first I wasn't sure he'd have a DF power myself, but frankly I didn't expect Whitebeard to have a DF, either. So that's why I think it's most likely that he has a fruit ability, as well (I've speculated several times that he might have a karma-based DF, since it would fit well with his title of "Buddha").......
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Old 2009-12-03, 19:47   Link #84
AnbuItachi
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Sengoku has higher rank cause hes older.. doesn't necessarily mean hes stronger
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Old 2009-12-03, 20:01   Link #85
SilverSyko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnbuItachi View Post
Sengoku has higher rank cause hes older.. doesn't necessarily mean hes stronger
If you think by that logic then that would mean Tsuru could be an admiral.

Though you could be right about him not being stronger, promotion through the ranks in any form of militia isn't determined by age, it's determined by exceeding satifactory results on missions and worthwhile contibutions to the overall morale of the unit.

Heck look at Garp from chapter 0. He was offered the chance to become an admiral several times due to his great work but turned them all down.
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:46   Link #86
andy
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Yes but it has been 22 years since then, we already know grap is not as strong as he was before . He said that him self already . The question is has sengoku lost any power like grap and if so how much . I still expect both him and grap to be top tier just not in there prime .
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Old 2009-12-03, 23:08   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnbuItachi View Post
Sengoku has higher rank cause hes older.. doesn't necessarily mean hes stronger
What makes you say he's older?
Garp is the one who is not only has wrinkles and is covered with gray hair, but also showed his hair beginning to gary 20 years ago... by all means Sengoku looks like he's the younger of the two...
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Old 2009-12-04, 00:33   Link #88
risingstar3110
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It seems WB will be just like his number 1 opponent, Gold D Roger, throwing away hist last "few" years of his life for future generation.

Considering that the bosses of the old world, all fought with strength, haki, and skills, while younger generation could take it easy with the magical "devil fruit" ( the sky world, the marines, and the pirates......) i will say there's a sudden surge in devil fruits worldwide in past decades . (I suspect WB himself got his tittle even before he got the fruit)

Of course the three admirals and the top two division commanders of WB are not weak in strength, but obviously it's not a coincidence that they all have such a powerful devil fruit. In another word, it's not far stretched to say: "they got up to their current position thank to their devil fruit power"
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Old 2009-12-04, 04:29   Link #89
Tenryuken
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Why would i have fantasies regarding Mihawk or any other character?
Cuz you're giving Mihawk powers that he doesn't have.

Quote:
There is a reason why Mihawk is currently the world's strongest swordsman.
And that reason isn't that he has mastered Haki.

Quote:
We have seen that Rayleighs a swordsman and that he could cut logia.
So Mihawk has all the fighting abilities of other swordsmen in the world?

Quote:
I don't see any reason to doubt Mihawk's ability to cut logia as he is supposed to be stronger then Rayleigh in swordsmanship and in his prime.
Fixed.

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You really can't see the difference between a title like Best Swordsman and Best cook? Or are you just trolling?
The Admirals care as much for the WSS than for the World's Best Cook.

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Hint: cooking doesn't have anything to do with fighting, whilst swordsmanship...well does.
WTF is your point?
If you can't hit your opponent your swordsmanship has no use.

Quote:
I thought we were talking about Buggy?
We're talking about Mihawk not being able to bypass DFs.

Quote:
When did Buggy become the World's Strongest Man?
I'd like to know it too, when did he?

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Haki enables you to TOUCH logia and nullify DF defences. It doesn't mean your attack is unstoppable, as proven by Jozu's block against Mihawk.
Haki wasn't involved in that attack.

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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
...Tenryuken, I am sorry but things that you wrote have no evidence to back it up, all speculation.
Does the people I'm arguing with have evidence that Mihawk has Haki?

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
In another word, it's not far stretched to say: "they got up to their current position thank to their devil fruit power"
In Smoker's case, it's due to his DF that he became Captain.
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Old 2009-12-04, 07:20   Link #90
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
^So far the only thing we can be certain of is that Sengoku and Garp are around the same level of strength, as chapter 0 indicates. At first I wasn't sure he'd have a DF power myself, but frankly I didn't expect Whitebeard to have a DF, either. So that's why I think it's most likely that he has a fruit ability, as well (I've speculated several times that he might have a karma-based DF, since it would fit well with his title of "Buddha").......
Yeah Whitebeard having a Devil Fruit kind of caught me off-guard too. I thought people of the Old School era just used brute strength and Haki. BUT i was wrong. How would a karma-based Devil Fruit work?

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Yes but it has been 22 years since then, we already know grap is not as strong as he was before . He said that him self already . The question is has sengoku lost any power like grap and if so how much . I still expect both him and grap to be top tier just not in there prime .
I think its safe to say that all of the Legends strength has declined with age.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
So Mihawk has all the fighting abilities of other swordsmen in the world?
Not necessarily, but he is the STRONGEST, meaning that his swordsmanship is unmatched (or the strongest) in the world.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
In Smoker's case, it's due to his DF that he became Captain.
I can't see Smoker becoming a Captain without his Devil Fruit. We have seen only a few powerhouse characters in One Piece that doesn't use Devil Fruits. Which is Pirate King Gol D. Roger (in chapter 0 we only saw him use a gun and sword, so its not 100% proven that he didn't have a Devil Fruit ability), Dark King Rayleigh, Red-Haired Shanks, Mihawk, Blackbeard (he was strong even before he got his Devil Fruit ability) and probably some others I can't think of at the moment.

Speaking of Shanks, I wonder if anybody in his crew has a Devil Fruit. Because so far the manga has led me to believe they don't. Shanks uses Haki and a sword (as far as we know), Yassup is a Sniper, the fat guy uses a pistol and Ben uses a Rifle.
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Old 2009-12-04, 09:27   Link #91
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Now this is totally baseless, but I figure if Mihawk has means of hurting a logia user, it doesn't have to be based on haki.
Since he's the "strongest swordsman" in the One Piece world, I expect him to be able to hurt a logia through hearing and detecting their "breaths".

This was a swordsman concept introduced to us in the Alabasta arc by Zoro's master.
It only makes sense it is utilized by the top swordsmen in the world.

Meaning, I don't think Mihawk "needs" haki to hurt any given substance in the world, as long as he takes time and meditate to hear its "breathing", much like Zoro did.
Otherwise I don't see the point of the whole concept being introduced into the story.
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Old 2009-12-04, 10:17   Link #92
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
How would a karma-based Devil Fruit work?


Well, karma is basically the result of any good or bad deeds that people have done in their life, which could even effect them when they reincarnate to their next life. So if a person has lived an honest, virtuous life, they'd be rewarded for it (good karma). On the other hand, if someone's been living a sinful existence, they'd receive divine punishment (bad karma). The way I see it, a karma DF takes that same principal into action. Imagine Sengoku using such a power against all those pirates, all criminals who built up so much bad karma due to living a life of villainy. He could punish them all by making them suffer great misfortune with his ability (the more bad karma they built up, the greater their misfortune). To be a little more specific, Sengoku could cause the pirates to accidentally injure themselves or their comrades, slip up attacks, or cause internal discord amongst themselves (like we saw him do with Squado a few chapters back). Sengoku would pretty much be something like a vengeful deity to those pirates if he had such a power at his disposal (of course, Buddha technically ISN'T a god, but still ).




....But of course, this is all hypothetical. But I still think it would be really awesome if Sengoku really DOES have such a fruit. 'Twould be a good way to show that destructive force alone doesn't a devastating DF power make......
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Old 2009-12-04, 10:46   Link #93
james0246
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^I think I would prefer if Sengoku, or at least one of the top echelon people, has a simple fruit (ala Luffy's rubber fruit). It was said in the past that it did not matter what fruit you posses, all were powerful as long as you mastered said fruit, yet all the top level people seem to have broken fruits. So, wouldn't it be cool for one of the top to have something simplistic rather than something over-the-top?

Last edited by james0246; 2009-12-04 at 12:45.
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Old 2009-12-04, 12:24   Link #94
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Does the people I'm arguing with have evidence that Mihawk has Haki?
No, they don't. But this is why I told you from the very beginning that we have no confirmation on what Mihawk's limits are, and therefore you shouldn't go spouting out nonsense as if it was fact that Mihawk cannot harm logia users. Keep quiet on things you don't know about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Now this is totally baseless, but I figure if Mihawk has means of hurting a logia user, it doesn't have to be based on haki.
Since he's the "strongest swordsman" in the One Piece world, I expect him to be able to hurt a logia through hearing and detecting their "breaths".

This was a swordsman concept introduced to us in the Alabasta arc by Zoro's master.
It only makes sense it is utilized by the top swordsmen in the world.

Meaning, I don't think Mihawk "needs" haki to hurt any given substance in the world, as long as he takes time and meditate to hear its "breathing", much like Zoro did.
Otherwise I don't see the point of the whole concept being introduced into the story.
Now this is something I would like to see. I'm hoping that besides Haki and natural weaknesses, there are other means of harming logia users. That would make things a lot more interesting.
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Old 2009-12-04, 12:54   Link #95
james0246
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^I talked about this in the Haki thread, but I always imagined that Haki dealt with domination (a literal force of will that can "consume" an opponent), whilst "breath" dealt with a harmony of sorts brought about by internal neutralization (think how in Evangelion the various Evas had to use their AT Fields not to pierce the angels AT Fields (though I think this is also done a few times in the series), but rather to neutralize them via destructive interference) rather than external (i.e. a DF's natural weakness is actually a neutralizing factor).
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Old 2009-12-04, 12:57   Link #96
Tenryuken
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I don't see the point of the whole concept being introduced into the story.
For Zoro to have an upgrade.
Why would Mihawk copy other techniques and not have one of his own?
Unless that technique is well known by every swordsman, I don't see why Mihawk should be able to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
No, they don't. But this is why I told you from the very beginning that we have no confirmation on what Mihawk's limits are, and therefore you shouldn't go spouting out nonsense as if it was fact that Mihawk cannot harm logia users. Keep quiet on things you don't know about.
It's retarted to think that Mihawk can do what the fuck he wants just because you don't know his limits.
It's based on facts that he can't hurt them.
Now tell on it's based that he can hurt them?
So until prooven otherwise he can't hurt, no matter how much you dream about it.
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Old 2009-12-04, 13:42   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
It's retarted to think that Mihawk can do what the fuck he wants just because you don't know his limits.
It's based on facts that he can't hurt them.
Now tell on it's based that he can hurt them?
So until prooven otherwise he can't hurt, no matter how much you dream about it.
Is not retarded, its Shonen, He hasnt been shown to have his real fight, so until then we don't know what are his limits, so going on and Saying he can't harm logias is just an assumption just like saying he can harm logias , which is BB points, dont go and say that Mihawk can't harm Logias as if it is a fact. and if indeed he can't harm Logias, please prove it.

BTW, Is hihgly possible that Mihawk used Haki against Don Krieg fleet.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Fixed.
These manners are awfully familiar.
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Old 2009-12-04, 13:58   Link #98
Tenryuken
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Is not retarded, its Shonen, He hasnt been shown to have his real fight, so until then we don't know what are his limits, so going on and Saying he can't harm logias is just an assumption just like saying he can harm logias , which is BB points, dont go and say that Mihawk can't harm Logias as if it is a fact. and if indeed he can't harm Logias, please prove it.
Read the manga and you'll know unless "it's Shonen" and then Usopp and Nami can also use Haki cuz we haven't seen their limits.
Lol everybody in OP can harm Logias by that logic.

Quote:
BTW, Is hihgly possible that Mihawk used Haki against Don Krieg fleet.
It's also hihgly possible that Nojiko used Haki on Usopp.
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Old 2009-12-04, 14:04   Link #99
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Read the manga and you'll know unless "it's Shonen" and then Usopp and Nami can also use Haki cuz we haven't seen their limits.
Lol everybody in OP can harm Logias by that logic.
Yes, that is correct, the direction of the Manga is what will end up dictating if Ussopp and Nami could be Haki users and afterwards use it against a Logia and harm them. there is nothing said in the Manga that wouldn’t allow Oda to do this.


Quote:
It's also hihgly possible that Nojiko used Haki on Usopp.

Yes, is possible.

Going back to the real point, you failed to provide any proof to validate as a fact that Mihawk can’t harm loggias.
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Old 2009-12-04, 14:12   Link #100
Tenryuken
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Usopp and Nami's exemple are the proof, you say that they will be able to use Haki but the fact is that they can't use it now.
The same goes for Mihawk.
Besides you have no proof whatsoever that Mihawk can use it, so there is more proof that he can't instead of that he can use it.
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