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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 22 13.17%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 15 8.98%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 11.38%
7 out of 10 : Good 39 23.35%
6 out of 10 : Average 16 9.58%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 14 8.38%
4 out of 10 : Poor 15 8.98%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.20%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 5 2.99%
1 out of 10 : Painful 20 11.98%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-12-10, 19:38   Link #141
Myname
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I am hearing a lot of this "Goat-kun" stuff from the VN that was apparently cut. Anyone mind explaining what it is?
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Old 2009-12-10, 20:02   Link #142
gtr06
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I'm thinking they cut goat-kun out because of copyright reasons or that it doesn't fit the dark tone of the anime. I mean a goat thinking he is Joe from that boxing anime can't fit well into a story thats lost its comedic side. Higurashi kept the comedy well after every arc, but Umineko the anime just gets lost in bad pacing. 4/10
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Old 2009-12-10, 20:03   Link #143
Tsuyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myname View Post
I am hearing a lot of this "Goat-kun" stuff from the VN that was apparently cut. Anyone mind explaining what it is?
...It was only a silly scene in the VN. While Krauss's group were escaping from Kuwadorian, Virgillia sent Goat Butlers after them after the Siestas failed. Kanon was able to cut through a door small enough for the prisoners to go through, and Virgilia told the goats to go after them, promising a prize to the goat that catches the prisoners. Except the goats, being creatures of low intelligence, became stuck in the doorway when they all rushed to catch the prisoners. One goat however, was smart enough to not join in, and he goes off in another direction to face off with the prisoners. Krauss ends up fighting him, at first standing little to no chance. But then 'Goat-kun' started talking about how he had a family, was going to marry his childhood goat friend, and other lame things that constituted a generic failure path in any visual novel. So even though the goat was more powerful in the beginning, the 'loser flags' that resulted from his detailed background made his attack power weaker than Krauss's. So basically we learned that Goat Butlers have families and girlfriends too, or something. It wasn't important at all in my opinion.
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Old 2009-12-10, 20:09   Link #144
KanonTheFurniture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myname View Post
I am hearing a lot of this "Goat-kun" stuff from the VN that was apparently cut. Anyone mind explaining what it is?
Found these:
Spoiler for Goat-kun:

This user has uploaded all of the George/Gaap and Jessica/Ronove battles as well (given the title of these two videos that should be obvious), for anyone interested in checking out that whole deal.
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Old 2009-12-10, 20:30   Link #145
June 1983
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The important/win part of Goat-kun wasn't the Goat-kun part of it (that's just funny/cute, but it could have been cut out easily), it was that we actually got to see Krauss kick some ass for once in his miserable life. I think they could have had Krauss with "the power of his determination" or whatever -- after all, they cut the "power levels" aspect of Kyrie's battle Leviathon in EP 3 very easily.

Poor Krauss.
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Old 2009-12-10, 20:38   Link #146
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Spoiler for Episode Thoughts:
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Old 2009-12-10, 20:54   Link #147
SilverSyko
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Well that was a good plan by Gaap, though I wonder why she didn't just do that in the first place. xD;

I take back what I said about Virgilia being a civilized and calm-headed woman, this episode proved to me she indeed has a raging beast behind that mask.

I'm VERY curious about what Battler's sin is and why he couldn't say he was born from Asumu in the red truth.

This is just a guess, but maybe he was born from a surrogate mother?

2 episodes left! Anxious to see the conclusion.~
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Old 2009-12-10, 21:16   Link #148
KanonTheFurniture
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I know a lot of people don't want Kyrie to be Battler's real mom because it's rather cliche, but it makes the most sense. If you recall episode 16, she said that she was scheduled to give birth at the same time as Asumu, but she had a stillborn/miscarriage/still unclear what the actual translation is between the Anime and Witch-Hunt versions. Assuming the baby was born but then died shortly after, would it be that farfetched to think Kyrie was asleep, either due to drugs or just natural exhaustion, and that the babies were switched when they were taken by the doctors? Could be deliberate or accidental, though if it happened, I'd say deliberate. Then she was convinced her baby died...whether because the switched baby (Asumu's) actually died instead of hers, or that neither died and she was just plain lied to for some greater plan. Or if the baby died before actually leaving the womb, then there's a strong chance Kyrie was put under to facilitate delivery, and would have no knowledge that she may have actually delivered, and then been lied to.

Thus, Battler is Kyrie's biological son, grows up believing Asumu is his real mom, Kyrie is none the wiser (gotta wonder if Asumu and/or Rudolf knew, though I theorize Rudolf's 'I want to talk to you later' in EP1 may have had to do with this), and everything works out from then on as we know it.
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Old 2009-12-10, 21:41   Link #149
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Ok I'll go with WTF happened at the end there? At least can't blame piece Battler for being pissed off. All the crap that was happening with his relatives getting slaughtered and Beatrice takes a walk during the test . No surprise he didn't fill anything in there for the second option. Since likely the only person left alive he could slot in there would be Ange and he's not putting his little sister on the line.

Back to the end it's pretty bizzare. What bloody sin? Plus if it's got nothing to do with Beatrice why is she getting so emotional over it? Well could just be pulling a trick like before and is pulling out being worried that Battler might win. Either way it's just weird. I'd still lean towards trick since seriously besides pressing the self-destruct button on a ship there is nothing a little kid could have done to cause this situation.

I really don't get it. The whole name thing doesn't make much sense to me anyways. Battler is Battler. No matter who gave birth he got the name and that make's him, him. Besides considering the similarities between him and Ange obviously they are related. I suppose KanonTheFurniture has a point. If Battler was Kyrie's son then it would explain how although they should be step-siblings that they look so much alike.

Regardless I don't get Beatrice. She has something to do with all of this, sets up a game board that leads to people getting killed over and over again, then decides she's tired and cancels it. If you quit in a game you lose. Trust me if quitting meant I didn't lose then I would have quit numerous games .

Figure I should post before reading this round of complaints.....
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Old 2009-12-10, 21:50   Link #150
LusterFlare
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I really don't get it. The whole name thing doesn't make much sense to me anyways. Battler is Battler. No matter who gave birth he got the name and that make's him, him. Besides considering the similarities between him and Ange obviously they are related. I suppose KanonTheFurniture has a point. If Battler was Kyrie's son then it would explain how although they should be step-siblings that they look so much alike.
I thought Ange is Battler's half-sister. Isn't Rudolf the father of both?
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Old 2009-12-10, 22:17   Link #151
Tjfarmer
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They are half-siblings. Rudolph is the father of both.
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Old 2009-12-10, 22:21   Link #152
June 1983
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Battler is almost certainly Rudolf's son. Beatrice is most likely trying to trick him by equating "not Asumu's son" with "not Kinzo's grandson". However, one can imagine that the shock of being told in red that the woman you thought was your mother is in fact not means that Battler is not quite thinking clearly.

However, despite the fact that he is most likely still Kinzo's grandson, there is a possibility that there is something going on with Battler's name. Could there be another Battler? If, for example, Battler is in fact Kyrie's son -- or some other woman's -- what happened to Asumu's baby? (Provided there wasn't something cheesy going on like Asumu faking her pregnancy.) A lot of fans speculate that there might be a clue in the alternative way to read Battler's name ("Sento"). But I suppose we'll find out in Chiru.
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Old 2009-12-10, 22:22   Link #153
Used Can
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Poor Goat-kun ;_;
Hopefully, he'll reappear some time during the final episodes for the SN.

Spoiler for Goat-kun the kind-hearted:
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Old 2009-12-10, 23:28   Link #154
imaginari
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On one hand, this wasn't very good. On the other, well, people should keep badmouthing every episode like this so that I can be pleasantly surprised when I would otherwise feel the opposite.

I gave it a 7. It was about as good as an ordinary episode, but as I said earlier, it wasn't supposed to be one.
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Old 2009-12-11, 00:21   Link #155
Xapheron
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Another aspect of the goat-kun scenes is to show that in fact, the magical side is fake by showing the ridiculousness of the magical side's interpretation of the scenes. The red truth missed out states that Battler isn't Asumu's real son. He can say that she is his mother because such a status is subjective(blah blah, she is my mother even if we aren't blood-related that sort of thing). But clear-cut/absolute matters like being born from her he can't say simply because he isn't. That doesn't mean he isn't an Ushiromiya though.
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Old 2009-12-11, 03:36   Link #156
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture View Post
I know a lot of people don't want Kyrie to be Battler's real mom because it's rather cliche, but it makes the most sense. If you recall episode 16, she said that she was scheduled to give birth at the same time as Asumu, but she had a stillborn/miscarriage/still unclear what the actual translation is between the Anime and Witch-Hunt versions. Assuming the baby was born but then died shortly after, would it be that farfetched to think Kyrie was asleep, either due to drugs or just natural exhaustion, and that the babies were switched when they were taken by the doctors? Could be deliberate or accidental, though if it happened, I'd say deliberate. Then she was convinced her baby died...whether because the switched baby (Asumu's) actually died instead of hers, or that neither died and she was just plain lied to for some greater plan. Or if the baby died before actually leaving the womb, then there's a strong chance Kyrie was put under to facilitate delivery, and would have no knowledge that she may have actually delivered, and then been lied to.

Thus, Battler is Kyrie's biological son, grows up believing Asumu is his real mom, Kyrie is none the wiser (gotta wonder if Asumu and/or Rudolf knew, though I theorize Rudolf's 'I want to talk to you later' in EP1 may have had to do with this), and everything works out from then on as we know it.
That's not a translation problem. In the novel Kyrie says 流産 "miscarriage" in the anime she says 死産 "stillbirth". The problem is in the original text itself that suddenly changed, but the translations are 100% correct in both cases.
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Old 2009-12-11, 04:09   Link #157
MeoTwister5
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Well... I didn't find the episode to be THAT bad, but I can't deny it was all over the place. Nearing the end of the run I'm assuming there's a reason this episode got gutted and butchered as some sort of ritual sacrifice for the impending conclusion of Ep4.

That said, the butchery this episode got does reduce the content load the final two episodes will have to deal with, with most of the main chapter contents being able to be concluded earlier to give more than enough time to flesh out the critical finale of Ep4.

Thing is, can DEEN do it? They sacrificed so msuh in Ep1 and some in Ep2 to give us a relatively stellar Ep3, so it's still possible this episode was the sacrificial lamb to allow Ep4 to asplode our minds.

Finger's crossed, knock on wood, 4 leaf clover etc. This episode gets a 6/10 from me.
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Old 2009-12-11, 04:27   Link #158
Qilin
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I just felt compelled to comment on this episode.
Spoiler for episode:


I'm not going to demonize the episode, but this is certainly one of the season's lesser episodes.
Oh well, all will be forgiven if they can do the last two episodes well, especially the last one.
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Old 2009-12-11, 06:20   Link #159
Workworkwork
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Ok I'll go with WTF happened at the end there? At least can't blame piece Battler for being pissed off. All the crap that was happening with his relatives getting slaughtered and Beatrice takes a walk during the test . No surprise he didn't fill anything in there for the second option. Since likely the only person left alive he could slot in there would be Ange and he's not putting his little sister on the line.

Back to the end it's pretty bizzare. What bloody sin? Plus if it's got nothing to do with Beatrice why is she getting so emotional over it? Well could just be pulling a trick like before and is pulling out being worried that Battler might win. Either way it's just weird. I'd still lean towards trick since seriously besides pressing the self-destruct button on a ship there is nothing a little kid could have done to cause this situation.
.
Beato said that while he himself may have not created it, his actions LED TO the creation of the sin.
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Old 2009-12-11, 06:28   Link #160
Jan-Poo
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No.

Battler committed a sin

The meaning of "sin" is subjected to various interpretations but Beatrice is definitely saying that Battler himself commited that sin.

That sin might have led to more serious consequences but that's not What Beatrice is referring to.
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