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Old 2012-01-27, 12:01   Link #901
ookamigirl
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Fukuda was pretty cool this time. Total opposite of him was the annoying Ishizawa..
Guess Fukuda is a pretty talented editor ^^ who knew lol
Battle for serialization has begun.... again.
Nice episode.
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Old 2012-01-29, 20:21   Link #902
ars89
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Spoiler for ep 17:
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Old 2012-01-29, 21:04   Link #903
Guardian Enzo
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God damn, I'm pissed at this series and everyone in it right now.

Spoiler for 17:
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Old 2012-01-29, 21:36   Link #904
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Spoiler for Ep17:
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Old 2012-01-29, 21:44   Link #905
Kakkou
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Wow, I LOVE the new ED. Seeing the authors as kids walking in a line was so sweet. The song was good too. Miho-centric ED will not be missed at all.

I hope this episode means Nakai will be written out of the story for good. Team Fukuda are such kind hearted people to even see him off or in Saiko's case, convince him to stay.

Eiji being asked to draw for Iwase was surprising but boy do I adore every single second of screentime he gets. Nobuhiko Okamoto's performance is so much fun to listen to that I keep replaying those scenes. XD Oh and I liked how Hattori and Yuujirou teamed up once they realised the benefits they stood to gain.

Meanwhile, Ashirogi Muto is still facing problems and Miura isn't getting any better as an editor. Let's see if they can get Tanto serialised or if they'll move to something else though considering that Tanto is getting some merchandise it's safe to say it's not going to be in the story a little longer than their past oneshots. Anyway I'm excited to see where everyone goes from here on!
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Old 2012-01-29, 22:03   Link #906
Guardian Enzo
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Basically, Sasaki said "If you don't like it, you can quit." But the one piece of decent advice the bastard gave Takahama (and I hope Ashirogi were listening) was "Write something so good your editor will have to take it as is." I think the choice Ashirogi has is quite plain - quit and go to Shounen Sunday (not likely considering where Bakuman is published) or write what they want and force it down Miura's throat.

Now, is it right that an author - especially a pair of 18 year-olds - should have to write with no help from an editor? No - they're effectively fighting with one hand behind their backs, and at a major disadvantage to the likes of Eiji and Otter-boy, who have good editors who can actually help them. But since their editor is an obstacle, their best hope is to make him as irrelevant as possible. That would make any potential success they have that much more GAR.
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Old 2012-01-29, 22:42   Link #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Basically, Sasaki said "If you don't like it, you can quit." But the one piece of decent advice the bastard gave Takahama (and I hope Ashirogi were listening) was "Write something so good your editor will have to take it as is." I think the choice Ashirogi has is quite plain - quit and go to Shounen Sunday (not likely considering where Bakuman is published) or write what they want and force it down Miura's throat.

Now, is it right that an author - especially a pair of 18 year-olds - should have to write with no help from an editor? No - they're effectively fighting with one hand behind their backs, and at a major disadvantage to the likes of Eiji and Otter-boy, who have good editors who can actually help them. But since their editor is an obstacle, their best hope is to make him as irrelevant as possible. That would make any potential success they have that much more GAR.
Yeah I don't like the stance that they have no choice but to do what they want and force the editor to take it. We saw when they went over Miura's head and wrote a serious story themselves it was only marginally better. It's going to be tough when they don't have an editor like Hattori to support them and bring their level up. Of course can say it's just poor asset management on Sasaki's part. Put authors together with editors that would work well with them. Don't force them to be stuck with someone that is completely on different pages. Really I think all they can do is do something so good and with their serious style that it's clear Miura being their editor wouldn't make sense. Or make it so Miura is the one wanting them to switch. Either way don't think they can reach their goal with an editor like Miura.
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Old 2012-01-29, 22:54   Link #908
Kakkou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Basically, Sasaki said "If you don't like it, you can quit." But the one piece of decent advice the bastard gave Takahama (and I hope Ashirogi were listening) was "Write something so good your editor will have to take it as is." I think the choice Ashirogi has is quite plain - quit and go to Shounen Sunday (not likely considering where Bakuman is published) or write what they want and force it down Miura's throat.
As far as this situation is concerned I think calling Sasaki a bastard is unfair. While I do find Miura incompetent and the whole situation unpleasant, the higher ups at Jump can't just bend to every whim of their authors, especially not one who's only reason for requesting a change was "Because he won't let me draw what I want". Well yes, Takahama was at wits end but that move is as unprofessional as Miura's threat of resignation.

Right now what they need to do is not get a new editor but to take Sasaki's advice to heart and improve themselves before they start putting all the blame on others. Saiko & Shujin realised it and decided to do just that, which I found admirable.
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Old 2012-01-29, 23:51   Link #909
Guido
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New Page 17: Special Relationship and Hometown

Oh, boy, there were a lot of developments going around in this episode that gave ups and downs.

For starters, the corporate world is cold and manga industry is not an exception.
Spoiler:


The world outside of the corporate and industry worlds is even far colder.
Spoiler:


And, sometimes, there are people in the world that resulted surprisingly clever.
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-01-29, 23:52   Link #910
Guardian Enzo
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They're making the best of a bad situation, and they deserve credit for realizing that complaining will do them no good. But they're still in this position because Sasaki is a corporate toad who's consistently been more of a hindrance to their career than a help. Forcing a teenaged author to have to try and succeed against the drag effect of a terrible editor is nothing to admire - the fact that Ashirogi might just be good enough to do it is a credit to their talent, not a reflection of anything Sasaki has done.
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Old 2012-01-30, 00:11   Link #911
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I couldn't have believed at the start of this second season that Nakai would fall off so badly. Had a good partnership going and his art really was something amazing. Then the serialization failed and he fell with it. Of course possible it might have gone that way regardless since some hints were there. His goal to become serialized got tied together with his interest in Aoki. She turns him down, meets Katou, and suddenly it's all about girls and forget the serialization. Though still can't believe how he turned into such an unlikable jerk. It was so bad I don't even care that he's gone. Mashiro really being left as the only one really upset about this. Fukuda and Aoki might not be particularly happy about him leaving, he did sour his relations before the end.

With Sasaki, sometimes life sucks.
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Old 2012-01-30, 00:29   Link #912
Kakkou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
They're making the best of a bad situation, and they deserve credit for realizing that complaining will do them no good.
That's what I found admirable, not Sasaki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
But they're still in this position because Sasaki is a corporate toad who's consistently been more of a hindrance to their career than a help. Forcing a teenaged author to have to try and succeed against the drag effect of a terrible editor is nothing to admire - the fact that Ashirogi might just be good enough to do it is a credit to their talent, not a reflection of anything Sasaki has done.
Despite all this I can't help but feel Sasaki isn't the corporate toad he appears to be, solely because of his of his advice telling them to get good enough to shut up their editors. I agree with his stance on Takahama's situation for reasons previously stated and in Ashirogi's case I see it as more of him saying "You have the potential, now show it to by shutting Miura up by yourselves"

Heh, maybe I'm just giving him too much benefit of the doubt.

Even if he were a corporate bastard I don't think I'd be able to fully dislike him because well, that's how society works, unfortunately.
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Old 2012-01-30, 00:48   Link #913
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
They're making the best of a bad situation, and they deserve credit for realizing that complaining will do them no good. But they're still in this position because Sasaki is a corporate toad who's consistently been more of a hindrance to their career than a help. Forcing a teenaged author to have to try and succeed against the drag effect of a terrible editor is nothing to admire - the fact that Ashirogi might just be good enough to do it is a credit to their talent, not a reflection of anything Sasaki has done.
What purges me a little bit is that Mashiro reflects that complaining over a bad editor is just an excuse for not trying to realize themselves their own mistakes and trying to be more understanding with the editors, when a little earlier he felt empathetic to Takahama about his frustration towards Miura.

Though, Takahama could have talked directly to Miura and argue his case without skipping the editorial chain and going personally to the Editor-In-Chief.

Hence, it feels that whatever morale this episode tries to disclose is that there's no room for complaints and excuses in a competitive environment, but I bet some of you would disagree if said environment or the people in charge of that environment are not helpful or willing to help the people working inside and got stuck with a hindrance.
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Old 2012-01-30, 01:09   Link #914
Xagzan
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Haha, it's certainly very fun to see people's reactions to the recent character and story developments, for someone who's read the manga. Looks like the general sentiments are Tanto sucks, Miura sucks, Nakai now sucks, and "Holy crap Eiji + Iwase!"

That's about what I expected too
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Old 2012-01-30, 01:11   Link #915
Guardian Enzo
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Takahama was screwed, basically - I've been in that situation before, and you just feel trapped. He's screwed if he goes along with Miura, screwed if he goes to Sasaki. It's not enough to just say "that's how corporations work" because really good managers know their employees well enough to address problems like this before people like Takahama are pushed out onto a ledge. It doesn't have to be that way - most of the time it just is, though.

In a better world, Miura would be fired because it's clear that he's incompetent. But the company mindset in Japan makes it very, very rare for someone who's been promoted to a position with any authority to ever be terminated. What would most likely happen is that he'd eventually get shuttled off to a job where he can do minimal damage, and largely ignored until retirement. But in the meantime, all the authors he works with are made to suffer.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2012-01-30 at 02:40.
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Old 2012-01-30, 01:45   Link #916
thundrakkon
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There are quite a few things that I have disagreed with the mangaka of Bakuman, but today's episode is most frustrating. The stance he puts for the editor in chief is a complete incompetence of that editor in chief. Real good managers know how to use their employees and put the best people who work well together to accomplish things that could not otherwise do by themselves.

By telling the writers that they do not have enough talent if they cannot work with their editor is pure BS. If that is the case, anyone on the street can be Ashirogi's editor, and they would do well. The editor in chief is essentially saying that an idiot can be your editor that only wants to destroy your work, but if you have talent, you'll find a way to make the best work possible.

In reality, you would want to put the best people that work well together. That is what a good manager would do, especially someone who got all the way to the top.
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Old 2012-01-30, 05:24   Link #917
Anh_Minh
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Yeah, Sasaki's spiel was just a way to put the responsibility for failure all on the shoulders of the mangakas. Which is, in fact, what happens - failures cost the mangakas, but editors don't get fired and just pocket their salaries every month.

The other problem for Ashirogi is that: could Miura recognise a good piece if he saw it? Especially if it's not full of stupid gags?

Rather than Hattori, I'd like to compare Miura to Yamahisa, another young editor. Sure, there is something smarmy about him, but at least he knows better than to coast on the talent of his authors and force them to write what they're unsuited for.
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Old 2012-02-01, 11:58   Link #918
ookamigirl
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The serialization suspense was pretty interesting to watch.
Nakai & Aoki sure hit an iceberg...
Niizuma doing his thing again, this time a double one! He sure loves to make manga..
On the other hand our favorite pair hit the wall... wonder how they'll get themselves to success lane again.
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Old 2012-02-03, 17:45   Link #919
Kallen4life
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Iwase/Niizuma OTP !

also Fukuda/Aoki
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Old 2012-02-05, 05:05   Link #920
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Spoiler for Ep18:
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