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Old 2012-02-16, 08:23   Link #941
Pellissier
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For how he was presented, both for looks, previous experience and the mere fact of being Hattori's successor, Miura has always had this aura of a loser. But I swear in episode 1 I would have never thought he would become such a disgrace for Ashirogi Muto (and Takahama too).
The problem to me seems that Miura, other than not being skilled as Hattori, lacks ambition while his pupils at the very least try to aim for the top (rightfully so). But Miura is happy enough with a serialized series, even if its ranking is low, as long as the manga doesn't get cancelled it's all right for him.

Tanto has never been promising, in terms of being a blockbuster. Facts just confirm this, a respectable number of kids are interested in it and let's keep going. Perhaps it would be enough for a different mangaka (think of the assistant in this episode who said to Takagi: "what? you're a freshman, serialized and married?!?" as if he was talking to an alien). So someone might be happy with the status quo, but for how we got to know them, Ashirogi Muto clearly aren't.

I can't possibly see how they can ever be successful with this editor. They don't understand each other, and he will always pinion them, even unwillingly.
The only way for Ashirogi is to switch editor, possibly going back to Hattori, which is easier said than done since we've seen that it's not a choice they can do.
But I interpreted Niizuma's refusal of reading their manga as the ultimate hint: for the kids their manga might be good, but for their fanbase Tanto's level is just too low. If Niizuma, their 1st rival but probably also their 1st fan, thinks so too, nothing shall be added.

Great changes are happening, people are getting married and new anime are being decided. I want to bet that some other big change is planned on the next 6 episodes to end the 2nd series with a blast, it just can't go on like this. It's starting to become painful.

Oh, and wow Kaya. A great woman other than a good wife. I've always liked her, since the very first episodes, and indeed a smart person like Takagi couldn't have chosen better. Now if only Miho and Mashiro would become a bit like them, one day in the distant future...
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Old 2012-02-16, 13:20   Link #942
Guardian Enzo
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I think another problem is that Miura allows his personal tastes to guide his editorial decisions. He has the mentality of an 11 year-old boy - he loves gag manga. What have his last two serialized manga been? Gag manga. In fact, as far as we know apart from Trap - which was serialized under Hattori - he hasn't had anything else serialized, has he?

As gross as his offenses against Ashirogi have been, I think he's been even worse to Takahama. Not only did he ruin his manga with bad direction, but he abandoned Takahama as soon as it became clear BBK was in trouble. Miura pretty much fails in all professional categories - he's not smart, he's not ethical and he's not mature personally. I get the idea of what the mangaka were trying to do with this arc but as you say, it's becoming painful (it's been painful for me for many eps already). I can only assume the season will end with the end of this arc, but that's still half a season wasted on this depressing Tanto black hole.

The most interesting question for me is, how are Ashirogi getting out of this? Tanto will obviously go the way of BBK eventually, or Mashiro may finally put his foot down and refuse to go on. But an editor switch seems unlikely - we've already seen Sasaki will play the corporate shill to the end. Miura being fired is unlikely, as people in his position are almost never fired in Japanese business culture. I've long felt the logical answer was for Ashirogi to jump to someone like Shounen Sunday, but considering where Bakuman is published that's not going to happen. If I were to guess, I see Ashirogi being stuck with Miura and trying to succeed in spite of it.
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Old 2012-02-16, 18:54   Link #943
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I know Sasaki laid down the law about going above you editor. But is the editing department blind? Ashirogi hasn't turned in anything good since being given to Miura. Yea they were serialized first, but that was Hattori's good job. They know Ashirogi has talent, but can they really believe that their current slump is all due to themselves and not the bad direction of Miura. Seriously it pisses me off so much because there is no way that Ashirogi can surpass Eiji while with Miura. If they do then all the credit to them for persevering with a crappy editor.
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Old 2012-02-16, 20:46   Link #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I can only assume the season will end with the end of this arc, but that's still half a season wasted on this depressing Tanto black hole.
Just be glad they have speeded things up,if we were going at S1 pace this would be something like episode 5 of S3 after S2 would have ended at the wedding anouncement
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Old 2012-02-17, 00:59   Link #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I can only assume the season will end with the end of this arc, but that's still half a season wasted on this depressing Tanto black hole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Just be glad they have speeded things up,if we were going at S1 pace this would be something like episode 5 of S3 after S2 would have ended at the wedding anouncement
I'd made a guess earlier in the thread on where I thought this season would end. Thanks to the updated OP, I'm 100% sure I guessed correctly. That being said, don't look too much into the OP, there's a small detail there that's actually pretty spoiler-ish in its own way.

All I'll say is we're almost through the mud. Just keep on keepin' on. I know this pain you anime-only fans are going through all too well!
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Old 2012-02-17, 03:54   Link #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somnus View Post
I'd made a guess earlier in the thread on where I thought this season would end. Thanks to the updated OP, I'm 100% sure I guessed correctly. That being said, don't look too much into the OP, there's a small detail there that's actually pretty spoiler-ish in its own way.

All I'll say is we're almost through the mud. Just keep on keepin' on. I know this pain you anime-only fans are going through all too well!
Hey but I'm a manga reader

I'm guessing ch91,and I hope I'm right,though I wonder if they'll just get to ch87.I wouldn't mind that too much,but I'd definatly preffer ch 91
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Old 2012-02-18, 10:27   Link #947
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New Page 19: Fate and Star

For the nineteenth episode they downplayed part of Kaya's Father tale about his past with Mashiro's nephew, because in the manga his past crush for Azuki's mom was treated with greater detail. However, this decision was made so as the marriage interview wouldn't eat more screen time for the episode, since +Natural serialization boom picked the pace really fast.

And, the boys again have reached a milestone with Hirameki Tanto because it's become stable with younger kid's readership but at either 10th or 11th place and not even approaching the single-digits rankings since the 2nd chapter.

Last edited by Guido; 2012-02-24 at 01:29.
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Old 2012-02-18, 23:33   Link #948
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Episode 19 really picked up the pace, but did so at the expense of some very interesting scenes and conversations, some of which were mentioned by Guido. If they keep covering 3 manga chapters per episode and cutting out a lot of stuff, I guess they could cover all the way up to chapter 91, which would end the season on a really powerful note, but chapter 87 would make for a decent end point as well, since season 3 is already guaranteed.

But I have to agree that this season's quicker pace is making the Tanto arc a lot less painful than it was for me when I was reading it in the manga. I don't think Miura is a bad guy, but his approach to editing manga is a really poor fit for Takagi and Mashiro.
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Old 2012-02-22, 01:29   Link #949
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Spoiler for Ep20:
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Old 2012-02-22, 08:16   Link #950
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Spoiler for episode 20:
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Old 2012-02-22, 14:17   Link #951
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Things aren't going well for those two.
Just when I thought they had a lucky break with Tanto, it all went downhill from that.
The fact that Niizuma dropped it as well tells me everything..
Ashirogi Muto hit rock bottom compared to Niizuma who's success skyrocketed.
Mashiro was right, Tanto doesn't have a future.
They should've stuck with detective stuff, gag manga is just not them..
Tanto was Miura's fault after all.
Well, looks like things will be even more exciting from now on.
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Old 2012-02-22, 14:33   Link #952
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Actually, Tanto was not exactly dead or a gone case. It's just that it will never rise to flagship rankings, which is their main objective.
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Old 2012-02-22, 14:33   Link #953
ars89
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Best ep yet. Lol Hattori has to deal with Iwase like that now. Congrats to Takagi and Kaya. She looked really beautiful in her wedding dress. So Hattori dug into Mashiro that they wouldn't be able to beat Eiji with Tanto. Niizuma was great again, a little motivation for Ashirogi.

Finally the day has come Tanto is done! Good thing Mashiro to it to the chief after the vice chief said no. Miura was shocked that everyone said they had talent and could beat Niizuma. They're stuck with him, but maybe he got a little motivation now.
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Old 2012-02-22, 14:51   Link #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larethian View Post
Actually, Tanto is not exactly dead or a gone case. It's just that it will never rise to flagship rankings.
Well I think Tanto wasn't going to last that long anyways. Takagi was clearly hitting the wall in terms of coming up with new gags. He had to cover inventions for the good guys and bad guys, which just taxed him further. They'd either have to start recycling old inventions or Takagi might just end up hospitalized from overworking. Of course the major reason was that they couldn't surpass Niizuma like this, but think they were just getting ahead of a manga that wasn't going to be able to hold up.
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Old 2012-02-22, 23:13   Link #955
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What that sucked Tanto is gone and now there finely placing there jobs on the line fine it get interesting
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Old 2012-02-23, 00:42   Link #956
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It doesn't matter whether Tanto was dead commercially or not - it wasn't a work either of them (especially Mashiro) believed in. That's the whole point. I'm sure they could have milked it for quite a while, if they'd chosen to. Thank goodness Mashiro is foolish and ballsy enough to take a stand.

I'm so relieved this Tanto nightmare is finally over, and I think my favorite moment was the look on Miura's idiot face when Mashiro walked out of the banquet hall with Hattori. It was harsh timing, but Mashiro had to seize the moment for that conversation, and I think that was his only chance. "A problem with the editing department indeed" - and when Heishi could see the tide was turning, he was quick to change sides and offer his opinion that Ashirogi "hadn't had the chance to use their talent to the fullest". I doubt Miura is bright enough to know that was directed at him, but it's plain enough to see. Troublemakers, eh? Working for that organization, Mashiro should wear that label like a badge of honor.
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Old 2012-02-23, 02:42   Link #957
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That was indeed a great episode. I have a feeling that the mangaka might not like the whole editorial department in general, probably in real life. I wonder if it was a reference to something?
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Old 2012-02-23, 18:13   Link #958
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
It doesn't matter whether Tanto was dead commercially or not - it wasn't a work either of them (especially Mashiro) believed in. That's the whole point. I'm sure they could have milked it for quite a while, if they'd chosen to.
I don't think so. A few more weeks, and they'd have started missing deadlines.
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Old 2012-02-23, 18:28   Link #959
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They both have too much integrity to miss deadlines consistently. They'd have gotten the manuscripts in, the quality would have declined even further, and considering the audience it wouldn't have mattered - it would probably stay around the same spot in the rankings.
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Old 2012-02-23, 18:49   Link #960
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Well, it's completely hypothetical,so there's not much evidence either way, but I don't think poor Takagi had much Tanto left in him. I suppose he might prolonged things with a genre shift to battle,especially a dark, cerebral one. For one thing, it would mean he didn't have to come up with a new invention every week, but new ways to use existing ones. More his style.
But would the editors have left him do that?
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