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Old 2009-12-16, 15:21   Link #41
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
*sighs*

Samples pieces of recorded sound. The SNES chip gets those samples, which contains the exact information to reproduce the sound.

An FM synthesizer does not need samples, only notes relayed as MIDI data. Due to this it can reproduce every note without being limited by available samples.

It's like comparing a CD player with an orchestra. This is why the Mega Drive's sound chip still has a unique quality versus more recent sound chips. Mind you, it's the same thing with the NES, Master System, Game Boy, and other systems that use FM chips.

The other parts are subpar, though. Why do you think chips like the SuperFX were used in cartridges?

Funny you should say that, because in the beginning, the Saturn got all the RPGs (in Japan), while Sony put up its nose and said it didn't want RPGs on its system. That changed, of course.
Okay I can guarantee you that the Genesis' sound chip does not sound like an orchestra nor is it capable of producing such a sound.

Also are you trying to tell me that the Genesis' sound chip is superior to something like the DS when you say more recent sound chips? I mean I know you take odd and extremely condescending positions with your posts a lot of the time, but it seems like your verging on talking out of your ass territory with this one.

Let's just bring back the test from a page ago shall we. If the Genesis YM sound chip can reproduce every note it's given then why does Cammy's theme sound like this:



While it sounds like this on the SNES.



Also here's another example

Castlevania Bloodlines - Iron Blue Intention (Genesis):



Castlevania Portrait of Ruin - Iron Blue Intention



Unless my hearing is way out of wack it sounds not only like the SNES and DS versions of the respective song has more variety and inclusion of notes and sounds, but that it sounds crisper and more like actual music instead of noises. If you can find the orchestra in the Genesis version of this song than be my guest, but at no point have I ever heard the Genesis sound chip described as superior to the SNES. For further proof just watch the Angry Video Game Nerd review of the 32X where he compares the music of Doom on the 32X to that of the SNES. I'll even post it for posterity's sake:


Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-12-16 at 15:34.
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Old 2009-12-16, 15:34   Link #42
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I am fairly certain that Street Fighter II have never been developped for the MVS, the Neo Geo system. I mean, rip-offs like Art of Fighting have spawned during the 2d fighter boom for a reason.
this could be right, im a bit muddled, but i know for a fact that during the golden age of aracde gaming, neo geo had the best line up of games, including stuff like avp, aliens, metal slug, bubble trouble, kof, and plethora of games that looked better, played better than most games on the gensis or the snes. Don't get me wrong the snes and gensis had some great stuff like on snes, Super star wars return of the jedi, jurrasic park was actually pretty damn fun on gensis, vector man is also great, in the end gensis/snes rivalry really did some great things for the gaming industry and in the end I feel the main reason why nintendo won was basically snes killing saturn and the GB butchering game gear although game gear was good, in the end it's short battery life made it a luxury rather than a necessity. But for gensis v snes I still think those two game libraries are pretty much even in the amount of quality and win stored with in them. Unfortunately sega after pretty much dropping the bomb on saturn couldn't recover with the dreamcast.
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Old 2009-12-17, 07:04   Link #43
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On the sound department, Nintendo wins hands down. I could say the same about the visuals too but I haven't played that many games to be sure. From the little I saw, the SEGA games had lots of dark and simple backgrounds, and far less shading on the pixels in the foreground.

Hey, how about the joysticks (or pads, or whatever they are called)? I had no complaints about them. Does anyone have an opinion on them?
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Old 2009-12-17, 09:29   Link #44
Nosauz
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
On the sound department, Nintendo wins hands down. I could say the same about the visuals too but I haven't played that many games to be sure. From the little I saw, the SEGA games had lots of dark and simple backgrounds, and far less shading on the pixels in the foreground.

Hey, how about the joysticks (or pads, or whatever they are called)? I had no complaints about them. Does anyone have an opinion on them?
uhm in the end who cares about backgrounds, this whole notiong that pixel count=quality. Well in fact the only thing that matters in the retrospective of these games and their consoles is gameplay. This is the one thing that will never change, was the game enjoyable, was it fun, did it be the best it could be. When we speak on those terms nintendo and sega are neck and neck. Honestly, Sonic was a genre breaker, and there really hasn't been a game that has done 2d platforming as well as sonic as fast as sonic. Yet mario also defined 2d platformers in a different matter. In the end it's the games that matter and not really the hard ware because even though the hardware evolves the games are what drove these systems to their prominence.
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Old 2009-12-17, 09:42   Link #45
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
In the end it's the games that matter and not really the hard ware because even though the hardware evolves the games are what drove these systems to their prominence.
Exactly, it's not like better hardware helped the gamecube and xbox against the ps2 when it came to games and market dominance. The same for the Wii this gen.. sans the games.
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Old 2009-12-17, 10:24   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Exactly, it's not like better hardware helped the gamecube and xbox against the ps2 when it came to games and market dominance. The same for the Wii this gen.. sans the games.
actually i would leave out the wii. Other than first party, ie nintendo games, the wii has shit games, but it widened the market to a casual gamer base which is a good and bad thing, but in the end first party nintendo games are always great but as a platform it fails because of the lack of third party blockbusters. Just look at mad world which is somewhat generic beatemup for the wii that is boring but new ip and third party and yet it still receives flak even though it's one of the better games on the system.
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Old 2009-12-17, 14:10   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
this could be right, im a bit muddled, but i know for a fact that during the golden age of aracde gaming, neo geo had the best line up of games, including stuff like avp, aliens, metal slug, bubble trouble, kof, and plethora of games that looked better, played better than most games on the gensis or the snes. Don't get me wrong the snes and gensis had some great stuff like on snes, Super star wars return of the jedi, jurrasic park was actually pretty damn fun on gensis, vector man is also great, in the end gensis/snes rivalry really did some great things for the gaming industry and in the end I feel the main reason why nintendo won was basically snes killing saturn and the GB butchering game gear although game gear was good, in the end it's short battery life made it a luxury rather than a necessity. But for gensis v snes I still think those two game libraries are pretty much even in the amount of quality and win stored with in them. Unfortunately sega after pretty much dropping the bomb on saturn couldn't recover with the dreamcast.
Many 2D-games on the Saturn are really beautiful even today though. The problem was that the SAT was a 2D-optimized machine; it lacked quite a lot of effects for 3D, especially transparency effects. The mid-to-late-90s however saw a shift from 2D to 3D graphics as a general trend, so well...
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Old 2009-12-17, 14:15   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
actually i would leave out the wii. Other than first party, ie nintendo games, the wii has shit games, but it widened the market to a casual gamer base which is a good and bad thing, but in the end first party nintendo games are always great but as a platform it fails because of the lack of third party blockbusters. Just look at mad world which is somewhat generic beatemup for the wii that is boring but new ip and third party and yet it still receives flak even though it's one of the better games on the system.
Ill-informed comment if I ever saw one.
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Old 2009-12-17, 14:24   Link #49
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I was given the impression that most people bought the first X-BOX because of its cool visuals and just so they can play Gear of War.

If yes, I say many amongst us actually care about visuals, more than game play.
Heck, half the people in my village play titles like Dragonball or Devil May Cry just for the lucklaster characters.
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Old 2009-12-17, 20:49   Link #50
Leo Keichi
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I would say that the visuals of a game matter a lot for some people. That is maybe why there are some games with stunning graphics in the opening video, but with average looking ones when you're really playing. Besides, I'm pretty sure that a lot of racing games, and RPG games wouldn't be as successful as they are if their graphics weren't so amazing (for the standards of the time when they were released, that is).

And about the technical comparison between SNES and Genesis, I think that SNES is superior. Not that I'm an expert, but when I compare Street Fighter II from both systems, for example, I think that the SNES version is better both in video and audio quality. And the graphics of Donkey Kong games were very good as well, I'm not sure if they could do that for Genesis.
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Old 2009-12-18, 16:25   Link #51
Benoit
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The Neo Geo was not 64-bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama
Okay I can guarantee you that the Genesis' sound chip does not sound like an orchestra nor is it capable of producing such a sound.

Also are you trying to tell me that the Genesis' sound chip is superior to something like the DS when you say more recent sound chips? I mean I know you take odd and extremely condescending positions with your posts a lot of the time, but it seems like your verging on talking out of your ass territory with this one.
I've made my case. If you don't get it, that's your problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz
actually i would leave out the wii. Other than first party, ie nintendo games, the wii has shit games, but it widened the market to a casual gamer base which is a good and bad thing, but in the end first party nintendo games are always great but as a platform it fails because of the lack of third party blockbusters.
You must not be aware of the Wii's games catalogue.
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Old 2009-12-19, 01:08   Link #52
Westlo
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The Wii's game catalogue sucks, in no way does it come anywhere near close to the previous market leaders in the PS2, PSX and SNES.
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Old 2009-12-19, 01:31   Link #53
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While the Wii and DS do indeed churn out a whole bunch of embarrasing and pathetic shovelware that no hardcore gamer would touch with a 100 foot pole, I'd still say it's worthwhile to have one just for it's phenomenal exclusive releases.

Though this a Nintendo fan talking. I s'pose some of you might think otherwise.
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Old 2009-12-19, 03:59   Link #54
Sheba
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Back in the day of the PS3 release, I did laugh at Sony then go to look at the Wii. Now, when I see games like Uncharted 2, MGS4 and some others, I can say that it humbles quite a bit. When I think about it, I am glad to have decided to wait.
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Old 2009-12-19, 05:39   Link #55
Westlo
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
While the Wii and DS do indeed churn out a whole bunch of embarrasing and pathetic shovelware that no hardcore gamer would touch with a 100 foot pole, I'd still say it's worthwhile to have one just for it's phenomenal exclusive releases.

Though this a Nintendo fan talking. I s'pose some of you might think otherwise.
No I agree with you, the problem is that like with the N64 and the NGC Nintendo is pretty much the only company making good games for the Wii.. in fact I'll say it's even worse than it was back in those two gens. Nintendo's casual appeal in titles like Wii Sports, Wii Fit are massive part of why it's in the lead. Casual and shovelware games are always going to sell to the mainstream but Nintendo has failed to capture a large % of the Ps2 fanbase who have migrated to the 360 and Ps3.

The Ps2 sold over 110 million units compared to the Xbox's 25 million and Gamecube's 20 million. If the Wii sells as much as the Ps2 (which I don't think it will tbh) the 360 and ps3 are going to be a lot closer to the Wii than the Xbox and GC were. I think they are both over the 30 million mark already... and will probably end up around 60-40 million..
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Old 2009-12-19, 06:09   Link #56
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You are getting off topic people. Return to the "Nintendo is better" talking (lol) or do a split topic.

And for the sake of arguement, Nintendo indeed looks too much at casuals and lost a lot of hardcores (me included). But hey, at least they didn't use utter lies like the "other company" in order to sell. They were always honest with what their games are all about and not on who has the best hardware or the collest commercials.
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Old 2009-12-19, 09:07   Link #57
Nosauz
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Look ok the wii is covered in shovelware and shitty ports, the best games are first party and all other games get the finger. You have one or two diamonds in the rough but if you look at percentage of crap to quality you'd be lucky to see anything above 1 percent. I dare you to list the "good" games, hell I'll even be nice and allow you to say good is metacritic rating of 70+ which is generous as hell because we all know metacritic although a decent tool is still shit if you haven't really played the games.

I really think in the end Sega has constantly shot itself in the foot, first developing online play and not following through with it, having ridiculous memory units and over just over extending itself. Not to mention the constant craptastic sonic games.... I want to seriously butcher the ceo who came up with fucking werewolf. When you look at vintage sega and the today's sega, the only saving grace would empire pc games which is just not a good sign. Even though sega lost the longevity race when comparing them to nintendo's golden age they are right there at the top.

@roricon, I'm pretty sure nobody has said nintendo is bad, their games are great but the platforms they support at the moment are complete garbage at least for quality control, I mean everybody and their sister is porting shit games on to the wii and nintendo just says "Come on down" and "Step right up" and considering on most shovelware you can sell 30k and make a profit I can see why they do it, but that's nintendo not using their liscensing fee to do anything about it.
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Old 2009-12-19, 12:12   Link #58
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Look ok the wii is covered in shovelware and shitty ports, the best games are first party and all other games get the finger. You have one or two diamonds in the rough but if you look at percentage of crap to quality you'd be lucky to see anything above 1 percent. I dare you to list the "good" games, hell I'll even be nice and allow you to say good is metacritic rating of 70+ which is generous as hell because we all know metacritic although a decent tool is still shit if you haven't really played the games.
Sounds like the PS2 to me *cough*, the most popular of its generation will always overflow with garbage that is a pure and utter fact.
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Old 2009-12-19, 13:16   Link #59
Nosauz
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Sounds like the PS2 to me *cough*, the most popular of its generation will always overflow with garbage that is a pure and utter fact.
except the ps2 also had an insane plethora of good third party games, the reason it beat the xbox was solely on third party, just look at square, and many other developers that didn't touch the xbox and stuck with the ps2, whereas wii has no where near the appeal the ps2 did.
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Old 2009-12-19, 15:15   Link #60
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
except the ps2 also had an insane plethora of good third party games, the reason it beat the xbox was solely on third party, just look at square, and many other developers that didn't touch the xbox and stuck with the ps2, whereas wii has no where near the appeal the ps2 did.
It took several years before it got many good games. You making it sound like it came out and immediately had good games it wasn't till 5+ years before the "good games" library became noticeable.
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