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Old 2009-12-16, 00:09   Link #21
kari-no-sugata
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Hmm, kinda ironic, but Ace is getting a lot of character development here for a guy who's been unable to do anything for a great many chapters. I've felt for quite a while that after is arc is over, Ace is going to be a changed person in many ways. That feeling's definitely gotten stronger in this chapter.

Ah-ahh... Joz and Marco got distracted and got hurt because of it... I wonder they'll be some payback in that regard in the near future because of something Luffy does.


Hmm, I just had this crazy idea: Luffy decides to literally launch himself to Ace's platform at high speed... and uses Sengoku as a break Since Luffy's rubber, crazy tactics like that should work. Would be funny to see Luffy do that and free Ace within a few pages (he has the keys to the cuffs right?), and then see Ace and Luffy fight their way out together. Don't think it's going to happen, but was amusing to visualise.
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Old 2009-12-16, 01:08   Link #22
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Iva should give some of these hormones to the three semi-falling stars of the WB crew...Seeing them getting revived almost instantly will give the three Admirals a small scare.
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Old 2009-12-16, 03:59   Link #23
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This brings me to an interessting idea: What if Haki is actually only available and controllable on reaching a specific age (18 years old)? And the battle is taking place on Luffy birthday, so that he will fully awaken it in a few chapters to turn the battle?
I highly doubt that, judging by C.A post and given the literally it seems to fall in the word about emotional state (Genki- Energetic/Well, Honki- Serious, Haki - ambition/aspiration). You can find that definition in a Japanese to English dictionary. Assuming I understand the term correctly I take haki to mean. when a person who is a beginner but serious in some field (drawing/dance) goes and sees a master and watches him at work he feels a sense of awe, that awe comes from the masters ambition or haki. It seems far fetched to assume that the reason luffy can't control his aspiration is he's not a minor.


I think the luffy hasn't been able to control haki is probably mostly a function of his own strength and just literally not knowing how to yet. Its hard for someone who is inferior in skill to project his ambition to someone whose inferior. Hence why haki doesn't make strong people faint in the manga. Based on this I really don't think even if he had haki in this battle it would turn the tides or anything (which is why we probably haven't seen it). I really don't think luffy has learned to project his ambition at will.
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Old 2009-12-16, 04:44   Link #24
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The old, you don't look away during a battle really did Marco and Jozu in. And here I thougth WB's injury would at least take a little more time to kick in but it's already majorly affecting him. Guess a good old stab to the heart is even for WB to much. And he seemed still so in shape spamming those quake blasts with his pole-arm.

And Luffy is great as always, he's so damn convincing when he tells you straight how it is. Guess we're going to see what Luffy is really made of the next chapters. He just witnessed all these top tiers and he isn't flinching the slightest and still convinced he can turn the tide and save Ace. That's just what you got to love about Luffy.

And got to love how the WB pirates suddenly got their back against the wall seeming to be near annihilation again with their top 3 taking all severe blows yet they'll be bouncing back and probably tipping the scale back in their favor the next chapters. Got to love the suspense Oda is creating, this is probably the third time or fourth time I'm' wondering this arc how they can get out this shit and every time it seems a more desperate situation. And Garp and Sengoku still have to seriously fight, that's if Garp remains stubborn but I'm really hoping Luffy to do something about his gramps.
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Old 2009-12-16, 10:16   Link #25
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Guess a good old stab to the heart is even for WB to much.
WB got stabbed in the stomach, not the heart.

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And Luffy is great as always, he's so damn convincing when he tells you straight how it is. Guess we're going to see what Luffy is really made of the next chapters. He just witnessed all these top tiers and he isn't flinching the slightest and still convinced he can turn the tide and save Ace. That's just what you got to love about Luffy.
On the contrary, Luffy's convictions haven't been very convincing in this war. He keeps on harping about how he's going to save Ace, when he's far from capable of doing that. Kizaru told it like it is last chapter with this line: "Pure guts aren't enough Straw Hat Luffy. If you don't have the strength, there are things you can't save no matter how hard you try." It is evident that Kizaru is absolutely right. Luffy has had his ass saved many times already because of his inadequate strength. Oda has made the emphasis that he's too weak right now to make a difference.
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Old 2009-12-16, 11:18   Link #26
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Old 2009-12-16, 11:22   Link #27
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WB got stabbed in the stomach, not the heart.
Details... but yeah guess it was a little lower then the heart. Though beeing stabbed diagonally I always thougth he could've hit the heart.


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On the contrary, Luffy's convictions haven't been very convincing in this war. He keeps on harping about how he's going to save Ace, when he's far from capable of doing that. Kizaru told it like it is last chapter with this line: "Pure guts aren't enough Straw Hat Luffy. If you don't have the strength, there are things you can't save no matter how hard you try." It is evident that Kizaru is absolutely right. Luffy has had his ass saved many times already because of his inadequate strength. Oda has made the emphasis that he's too weak right now to make a difference.
Sheer guts ain't enough but in the end we'll see that Luffy was one of the guys who made the difference in Ace's rescue?

And not on the contrary, it's not cause Luffy has had his ass handed a few times that he sounds any less convincing while making his bold claims. He'll save his brother or die trying, whether he's to weak or not doesn't make any difference in him sounding convincing.
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Old 2009-12-16, 12:53   Link #28
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Sheer guts ain't enough but in the end we'll see that Luffy was one of the guys who made the difference in Ace's rescue?

And not on the contrary, it's not cause Luffy has had his ass handed a few times that he sounds any less convincing while making his bold claims. He'll save his brother or die trying, whether he's to weak or not doesn't make any difference in him sounding convincing.
I'm fine with Luffy being a contributor to saving Ace, but I won't find it plausible/realistic if he's the one to save him. Luffy's rescue attempt failed at Impel Down, and the situation at Marineford is a lot more worse since there are so many individuals who are far more powerful than Luffy. This is Whitebeard's time to shine, not Luffy's; and therefore I advocate that Whitebeard should be the one to save Ace before he succumbs to his injuries and dies.
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Old 2009-12-16, 13:08   Link #29
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I'm fine with Luffy being a contributor to saving Ace, but I won't find it plausible/realistic if he's the one to save him. Luffy's rescue attempt failed at Impel Down, and the situation at Marineford is a lot more worse since there are so many individuals who are far more powerful than Luffy. This is Whitebeard's time to shine, not Luffy's; and therefore I advocate that Whitebeard should be the one to save Ace before he succumbs to his injuries and dies.
Personally I think or hope Whitebeard will still shine bye defeating Akainu and then he'll finally face of against Sengoku with Marco and Jozu that keep stalemating against Ao Kiji and Kizaru which is going to give Luffy a chance to free Ace. Luffy has the key to Ace's handcuffs and with WB beeing so severily injured already and probably facing of against Sengoku in the long run I just can't think of anyone besides Luffy standing a chance to get passed Garp and saving Ace. Luffy having the key to those handcuffs is just to big of a factor for me to think that anyone else will free Ace. How Luffy is going to do in the upcomming battles, well that I'll just wait and see how it plays out after this new injection he got from Iva. And while it is WB's time to shine, you can't have Luffy not do anything worthwhile either. The future pirate king should have quite the impact on this war or Oda could've just left him out all together.
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Old 2009-12-16, 13:28   Link #30
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Personally I think or hope Whitebeard will still shine bye defeating Akainu and then he'll finally face of against Sengoku with Marco and Jozu that keep stalemating against Ao Kiji and Kizaru which is going to give Luffy a chance to free Ace. Luffy has the key to Ace's handcuffs and with WB beeing so severily injured already and probably facing of against Sengoku in the long run I just can't think of anyone besides Luffy standing a chance to get passed Garp and saving Ace. Luffy having the key to those handcuffs is just to big of a factor for me to think that anyone else will free Ace. How Luffy is going to do in the upcomming battles, well that I'll just wait and see how it plays out after this new injection he got from Iva.
We shouldn't discount the possibility of the VA's and the Shichibukai (sans Hancock, Crocodile, and Jimbei) getting in Luffy's way. They alone can trounce Luffy easily in a fight. I'm just getting a little tired of the routine of having Luffy ultimately win in the end just because he's the main character.
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Old 2009-12-16, 13:54   Link #31
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We shouldn't discount the possibility of the VA's and the Shichibukai (sans Hancock, Crocodile, and Jimbei) getting in Luffy's way. They alone can trounce Luffy easily in a fight. I'm just getting a little tired of the routine of having Luffy ultimately win in the end just because he's the main character.
Shichibukais will be occupied. Mihawk had his turn, Moria's already been owned once and had his turn already this manga and this war against Jimbei. Many think Do Flamingo is beeing spared for further in the manga and Kuma had his turn against Iva already to. These guys don't need to have a new turn and can easely get occupied back bye the opponents that kept them occupied before. No need for Oda to go out of his way to have them rechallenge Luffy again.

And I don't consider the VAs the slightest as something that easely can trounce Luffy. We've never seen a VA do something spectacular and they've got a real double standard for them going. Some think they are superior to Lucci and could easely beat Luffy and they are people who think Luffy is superior to VAs and others like myself who think only a select few of the VAs have a chance against Luffy. And this war has only confirmed the last more then the first for me. VAs have been dismissed as easely bye Whitebeard as Luffy has been dismissed bye admirals. Even pencil pusher John Giant who so many held in a high esteem. And Luffy beeing double teamed while running out of steem in the previous chapter doesn't make me think otherwise either. Like I've seen someone pointing out somewhere, Kaku and Jyabura together could've pulled that of to at that point.
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Old 2009-12-16, 15:48   Link #32
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I'm hoping for a Garp v Luffy scenario for next chapter, it seems that even garp wants ace to live, not just for wanting ace to live but to want ace to want to live himself, because in the end if the person your trying to save doesn't want to be saved you can't do anything about that, in the end it requires at least two people to save one person.

actually this basically the same point kamina drills into simon in ttgl.
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Old 2009-12-16, 16:12   Link #33
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I'm just getting a little tired of the routine of having Luffy ultimately win in the end just because he's the main character.
lolstopreadingshounen?

I'm starting to feel that this fight is dragging on. Yea, there are developments every chapter that make it enjoyable. Yea, it's a lot better than that 1v1 bs Bleach is doing. Yea, I love the fact that it looks like a real battle between two forces that want to completely destroy each other as opposed to a practice battle for some middle school kendo club. But, in these past few months (I really don't want to think about how long this battle has been going on) we've yet to see anyone really fall or be taken out of the action. That makes it seem like the battle is dragging. According to the story they've been fighting for a few hours, and yet no one major has gone down. Yea, it'd actually look bad for anyone to be down (sup Luffy) already since it's primarily been a battle royale with people trading hits with whoever is closest, but still . . . having someone go down, or a fight actually start and finish inside a chapter would be nice.
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Old 2009-12-16, 16:26   Link #34
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Shichibukais will be occupied.
If we've learned anything about this war, it's that combatants are constantly facing off against new challengers. There have been no dragged out one on one fights, so there is a chance a warlord may obstruct Luffy again.

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And Luffy beeing double teamed while running out of steem in the previous chapter doesn't make me think otherwise either. Like I've seen someone pointing out somewhere, Kaku and Jyabura together could've pulled that of to at that point.
That's just too bad. Luffy has been getting plenty of free rides, so it's time that he gets put in his place and sits out the rest of the battles. If it weren't for Ivankov's hormones, he wouldn't be participating right now. He's lucky to even be present at this war. And now that he's gotten another hormone injection from Ivankov, I'm expecting much worse severe side effects after they wear off.
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Old 2009-12-16, 16:37   Link #35
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^Free rides? Being saved from death does not constitute a "free ride". Luffy has paid his price of admission and participation with several pounds of flesh (or at least liters of blood), so there is nothing free about any of this. And your emphasizing that Luffy entered the battle half-dead (well, half-alive at any rate), doesn't exactly help your point (Luffy half-alive has done more than the majority of NW Captains and Whitebeard's commanders). Additionally, he, unlike almost all of the Whitebeard troops, has actually gotten closer to touching Ace than anyone else (right now, if you were to rank who was closest to actually getting to Ace (with the hope of saving him), it would be Luffy, then Marco, then Oars, with Whitebeard trailing them by a mile).

So, it's not like Luffy hasn't been doing anything, and hasn't striven to accomplish something.

Also, since he already has a built in 'ace-in-the-hole' (pun intended) that will instantly place him on level with the Top Dogs (or somewhere thereabouts), there is no reason for Luffy to sit out a fight.
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Old 2009-12-16, 17:14   Link #36
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^Free rides? Being saved from death does not constitute a "free ride". Luffy has paid his price of admission and participation with several pounds of flesh (or at least liters of blood), so there is nothing free about any of this. And your emphasizing that Luffy entered the battle half-dead (well, half-alive at any rate), doesn't exactly help your point (Luffy half-alive has done more than the majority of NW Captains and Whitebeard's commanders). Additionally, he, unlike almost all of the Whitebeard troops, has actually gotten closer to touching Ace than anyone else (right now, if you were to rank who was closest to actually getting to Ace (with the hope of saving him), it would be Luffy, then Marco, then Oars, with Whitebeard trailing them by a mile).
Are you kidding me? Without Ivankov's help, Luffy would be back at Impel Down suffering excruciating pain due to Magellan's poison. The only reason why he's standing is because of the hormones injection, which completely revitalized him with energy. Now he asks Ivankov to do the same thing for him again after taking a big beating by the VA's and Kizaru. And of course he has all of these powerful allies backing him up whenever he gets into trouble. Do you see where I'm going with this? None of what he's doing right now would be possible without all these external factors.

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So, it's not like Luffy hasn't been doing anything, and hasn't striven to accomplish something.
I never argued against this.

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Also, since he already has a built in 'ace-in-the-hole' (pun intended) that will instantly place him on level with the Top Dogs (or somewhere thereabouts), there is no reason for Luffy to sit out a fight.
It's still too early for Luffy to be on the same level as the top tiers. He has a long while to go before that happens.
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Old 2009-12-16, 17:18   Link #37
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If we've learned anything about this war, it's that combatants are constantly facing off against new challengers. There have been no dragged out one on one fights, so there is a chance a warlord may obstruct Luffy again.
This war has to end eventually and Luffy just got his last dose of hormones so he's running on his last fuel so I do think Oda will spend it on better things then something he avoided the first time. And there line seems to be breached and they seem to be handling the fodder previous chapter.

Speaking of warlords, what actually happened to the real Kuma? Has Iva bdsmed him somewhere safe like he did to Sadi-chan?
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Old 2009-12-16, 17:24   Link #38
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Are you kidding me? Without Ivankov's help, Luffy would be back at Impel Down suffering excruciating pain due to Magellan's poison. The only reason why he's standing is because of the hormones injection, which completely revitalized him with energy. Now he asks Ivankov to do the same thing for him again after taking a big beating by the VA's and Kizaru. And of course he has all of these powerful allies backing him up whenever he gets into trouble. Do you see where I'm going with this? None of what he's doing right now would be possible without all these external factors.
And Whitebeard would be unable to even think of battling against the Marines without his crew or his allies. So, your point is partially moot. This war isn't measured by personal strength, but rather combined strength and, since this is Shounen, Will and Spirit.

Luffy has just as much right to be in this battle as Whitebeard or his crew, and as long as he breaths he will continue to fight. Luffy fighting his very body in order to save his brother is supposed to be inspiring (("Do it with a Don!"), not a scene were you just want Luffy to go to sleep .

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It's still too early for Luffy to be on the same level as the top tiers. He has a long while to go before that happens.
I didn't mean that he would always be on the same level after he uses his 'ace-in-the-hole', but rather for a short time he would be on a similar level (think of it like the Star Power-Up from Mario - Invincible...for about 20 seconds).
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Old 2009-12-16, 17:33   Link #39
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Are you kidding me? Without Ivankov's help, Luffy would be back at Impel Down suffering excruciating pain due to Magellan's poison. The only reason why he's standing is because of the hormones injection, which completely revitalized him with energy. Now he asks Ivankov to do the same thing for him again after taking a big beating by the VA's and Kizaru. And of course he has all of these powerful allies backing him up whenever he gets into trouble. Do you see where I'm going with this? None of what he's doing right now would be possible without all these external factors.



I never argued against this.



It's still too early for Luffy to be on the same level as the top tiers. He has a long while to go before that happens.

So what if luffy has help. Luffy lost ten years of his life in ID trying to get to ace.

This is a war with the pirates helping out each other . None of what anybody is doing would have happen with out help from some one else, to single out luffy is stupid. Who cares if iva heal him or not .

Hell oars would have die if not from luffy jumping over and getting the admirals attention and WB plan would have not happen.

WB is only getting closer to ace thanks to the help of his crew.

I mean even when those VA's beat luffy he was not even in gear 2 and just rushing forward trying to get to ace and even then oda had a admiral finish him off.

Luffy don't have to be high tier to save ace he just has to get to ace to give him his key while WB and his allies hold back the top tiers.
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Old 2009-12-16, 17:38   Link #40
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Speaking of warlords, what actually happened to the real Kuma? Has Iva bdsmed him somewhere safe like he did to Sadi-chan?
The real Kuma is still around, probably taking care of fodder pirates. He should do another ursa shock to quickly clean out the place of all the grunts.

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Luffy has just as much right to be in this battle as Whitebeard or his crew, and as long as he breaths he will continue to fight. Luffy fighting his very body in order to save his brother is supposed to be inspiring (("Do it with a Don!"), not a scene were you just want Luffy to go to sleep .
Contributing to saving Ace is perfectly fine by me, but being the one to actually rescue him shouldn't be feasible for Luffy at all.
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