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Old 2009-12-25, 19:09   Link #81
james0246
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Originally Posted by Vree View Post
(...I'm still dropping the story tho. )
To each their own. To offer up a suggestion, you might want to drop this arc, but not the series. Specifically, you might want to take a break until this arc is fully complete (and the next one starts), then you can sit down and reread the entire arc at once. Afterwards you can then decide whether to fully drop the series or not (I do this myself whenever I grow bored with a series).
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Old 2009-12-25, 19:31   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Why is it disappointing? Because the "good guys" are losing? The marines deserve this victory considering how many times they've gotten screwed over in the story so far. Not only that, but you should have expected this result. What we have here is 1/4 of a world power (Whitebeard and his crew) vs. 2 world powers (marines and shichibukai). It was clear from the start that the Whitebeard pirates were going to get destroyed, and their NW pirate allies are not enough to balance things out. Everything we're seeing right now makes perfect sense.
Well to be fair, there is a difference between "the good guys are loosing" and "the good guys are getting obliterated"... it's true that the marines have barely suffered any real losses... the admirals are still going strong, 4 shichibukai are still in the game, and Garp and Sengoku have yet to really step in. though i think one of the biggest turning point was the Kuma-clones... each one of them is a almost as strong as Kuma himself

Though granted the losses on Whitbeard's side may be less then we are making out... Whitebeard's bleeding bad, but it's hardly slowing him down... Jozu and Marco seem like they may be down for the count aswell... but on the other hand, the rest of the WB commanders are still fighting, along with the NW captains, Jimbei, and Croc... and Buggy's probably gonna do something amazing despite how weak he is... this chapter could have been to build tension against the pirates where as next chapter could show some signs of a turn around
Quote:
The way I saw it was that Mihawk had intended for that slash to cut flesh and bones, not diamond. I would expect that Mihawk would be capable of cutting diamond if he had the intent/will to do so. He is the world's greatest swordsman, after all.
if you are attacking the world's strongest man wouldn't you want to strike him with your strongest slash? hell they even said that "the world's strongest slash was stopped"... i mean if you attack him with a slash that can split diamond, then your gonna tear through flesh and bone like a hot knife through butter... mihawk was attempting to compare his strength with that of Whitebeard's, doesn't make sense to hold back

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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Its been disappointing because WB was supposed to be a strategist of the highest caliber.
I don't think it's ever been said that Whitebeard was the greatest strategist... they complimented him on some of his moves, but that's a far cry from saying he's great at tactics

However, one thing that does bug me is the simple fact that no one thought to attack the marine HQ from behind... it's a factor that has been ignored by not just one piece, but also in Avatar the last airbender that no one seems to ever pick up on... a simple fix for Oda in this case would have been to locate Marine HQ against the red line and make it so that there was no backside

Though that's not the only strategic problem that was ignored... another was the simple fact that the only known way to get between the grandline and the new world is by passing through fishman island... in others words, the marines could have mounted a huge defense right around that spot near the redline instead of waiting for whitebeard at the HQ... so that's a fumble for the marines... though another fumble for the pirates was that they chose to attack the heavily defend marine HQ instead of trying for impel down; which would have probably been easier... i could go on, but all in all, one piece is not without it's inconsistencies and writing problems... far less than what Naruto or bleach go through on a weekly basis, but still problems none-theless

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Originally Posted by Vree View Post
My complaint here is why Iva, one of the major fighters, is wasting her attention on him instead of the lead warriors who could clearly use her. That's Whitebeard bleeding all over over there, "Miracle Healer".
Well for one thing, Iva's healing abilities are limited... poison he could handle, but he can't fix Luffy's wounds; he can only give Luffy the boost he needs to ignore his wounds... this is something that Whitebeard seems to be doing on his own

however, the major point is that iva does not give two shits about whitebeard or even ace. The ONLY reason iva is even in this fight is to protect Luffy because Luffy is dragon's son; Iva's devotion to Luffy is more about dragon than it is about Luffy himself. Iva's not gonna go running off to the other side of the battlefield when Luffy is inches from his death bed and will be targetted by some high class fighters
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Old 2009-12-25, 19:43   Link #83
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Yeah, the progress of the war so far is absolutely no surprise to me (outside of Crocodile saving Ace, anyway). Long before the war even started I said that I expected Whitebeard to fall, and it's getting close to that point. I think I also said in the past that the government pretty much needs a victory in this war in order to sustain their stability in the world's balance, so even if Ace doesn't die, Whitebeard's death would still be highly beneficial to them since he had (as far as we know) the most influence amongst the Yonkou. Basically, it's a win-win situation for the WG.



There's still the question of who will replace Whitebeard as an emperor after he falls, though..... As awesome as it would be for Buggy to be his successor, the clown has much bigger fish to fry (Pirate God, baby! ). Ace is still too wet behind the ears to take his "father's" place as well, and I'm not sure that Marco, Jozu, or any of the rest of the commanders are up to such a monumental task, either. That's why I'd say the crown will most likely be passed on to my boy, Blackbeard. Yes, I'd say that this an ideal chance for Teach to truly make himself known as a powerful ruler of the New World......
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Old 2009-12-25, 19:56   Link #84
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Teach replacing WB does seem likely. He's gotten a very strong crew now and who knows how many additional level 5-6ers he's freed and (temporarily) recruited from Impel Down. Plus, his DF power is pretty hax.
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Old 2009-12-25, 20:03   Link #85
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^Speaking of Teach's crew, I'm still expecting those prisoners that Iva mentioned in Impel Down to be his latest additions. Otherwise, there'd be no point in learning their names if they don't make a physical appearance, at all.....



Oh, and we need to see Shiryuu in action, too. If he's supposed to be equal in strength to Magellan, then I expect to see a liiiittle bit more than some fancy swordplay from him.....
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Old 2009-12-25, 20:06   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The way I saw it was that Mihawk had intended for that slash to cut flesh and bones, not diamond. I would expect that Mihawk would be capable of cutting diamond if he had the intent/will to do so. He is the world's greatest swordsman, after all.
This is exactly right.

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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
if you are attacking the world's strongest man wouldn't you want to strike him with your strongest slash? hell they even said that "the world's strongest slash was stopped"... i mean if you attack him with a slash that can split diamond, then your gonna tear through flesh and bone like a hot knife through butter... mihawk was attempting to compare his strength with that of Whitebeard's, doesn't make sense to hold back
Your strongest slash isn't necessarily a slash that can cut through diamond. Back when Zoro was fighting Mr.1, he discovered the technique needed to cut through steel and was able to defeat him. At that point in time, we had already been shown numerous times just how strong Zoro was. We've seen him lifting all sorts of stupidly heavy objects as weights, carrying huge buildings when they were in the way, and basically just moving mountains with his bare hands. Despite all that, despite his monstrous strength, he wasn't able to cut through steel until he discovered the breathing technique.

To me, being able to cut through really hard substances like steel and diamond is like adding an elemental attribute to your weapon, like in an rpg. Even if you're using your strongest attack, if you aren't planning on cutting steel or diamond, why add that extra whatever to it if it isn't necessary? I think the fact that a swordsman can also make his sword not cut something illustrates this even better. A good swordsman isn't someone that can cut everything in his path, it's someone that can cut what he needs to cut and not cut what he doesn't want to cut. That's close enough to what Zoro's master said. xD

Also, as a Shichibukai, I don't think he'd be acknowledged as a Yonkou. At least, he definitely can't be both at the same time. I don't think any of the NW pirates would accept him as one, since most if not all of them probably know that he left the WB pirates after killing his crewmate.

But more importantly, why would the gap need to be filled? Having three is fine. An imbalance of power (I don't believe the power was ever balanced) allows for more adventures and all that . . .
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Old 2009-12-25, 21:36   Link #87
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ah ohh Hancock will be in trouble...
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Old 2009-12-25, 22:39   Link #88
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
There's still the question of who will replace Whitebeard as an emperor after he falls, though..... As awesome as it would be for Buggy to be his successor, the clown has much bigger fish to fry (Pirate God, baby! ). Ace is still too wet behind the ears to take his "father's" place as well, and I'm not sure that Marco, Jozu, or any of the rest of the commanders are up to such a monumental task, either. That's why I'd say the crown will most likely be passed on to my boy, Blackbeard. Yes, I'd say that this an ideal chance for Teach to truly make himself known as a powerful ruler of the New World......
Thank you very much for joining the Blackbeard bandwagon. We just need some more members to hop on board and we're all set . Blackbeard becoming Whitebeard's successor has been my prediction all along (I've been saying this ever since I joined this forum 2 years ago), and it seems all the more likely it will come to fruition with each passing chapter.
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Old 2009-12-25, 23:28   Link #89
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^If Blackbeard doesn't show up (and I do not really think he will), then I see no reason why he would be considered as a member of the Yonkou (he is certainly not famous enough to be lauded so highly).

That beign said, I tend to agree with DJ Trouble that the story would be more interesting with only 3 Top Pirates...
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Old 2009-12-26, 00:11   Link #90
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^If Blackbeard doesn't show up (and I do not really think he will), then I see no reason why he would be considered as a member of the Yonkou (he is certainly not famous enough to be lauded so highly).

That beign said, I tend to agree with DJ Trouble that the story would be more interesting with only 3 Top Pirates...
At Impel Down, Blackbeard said that within a few hours he would do something that would shake the entire world. So, whether he interferes in this war or not, he's most likely going to cause such a huge disturbance to the point where everybody will know his name. If this isn't enough, Shanks also did say that Blackbeard would one day come to steal Whitebeard's position, and Shanks' words certainly do hold merit (i.e. he knew what the repercussions would be of Ace not being ready to confront Blackbeard, the "rampaging era" that would ensue subsequent to that encounter, etc.).
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Old 2009-12-26, 00:49   Link #91
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Yeah, the progress of the war so far is absolutely no surprise to me (outside of Crocodile saving Ace, anyway). Long before the war even started I said that I expected Whitebeard to fall, and it's getting close to that point. I think I also said in the past that the government pretty much needs a victory in this war in order to sustain their stability in the world's balance, so even if Ace doesn't die, Whitebeard's death would still be highly beneficial to them since he had (as far as we know) the most influence amongst the Yonkou. Basically, it's a win-win situation for the WG.
Ya i really was expecting Blackbeard to take a role in this battle, but at this point any effect he might have does not seem important... delivering the final blow to whitebeard seems meaningless when he's so badly wounded... though on the otherhand we have to ask what was the point of Blackbeard taking up the shichibukai name if he was just gonna throw it away; i mean he didn't exactly need it to invade impel down as he did

I think the biggest reason the WG need a victory is because they have seen mostly defeat up to this point...
Though still the complaints are still sound... i mean theirs a difference between "victory" and "flawless victory"... Considering how we barely count the Vice admirals, the marines have been making this too easy of a win so far... their biggest players are still up and fighting and two of them have barely gotten into the game... meanwhile two of whitebeard's biggest players are down for the count... the pirates need a real turnaround right about now
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Originally Posted by DJ Trouble View Post
Your strongest slash isn't necessarily a slash that can cut through diamond. Back when Zoro was fighting Mr.1, he discovered the technique needed to cut through steel and was able to defeat him. At that point in time, we had already been shown numerous times just how strong Zoro was. We've seen him lifting all sorts of stupidly heavy objects as weights, carrying huge buildings when they were in the way, and basically just moving mountains with his bare hands. Despite all that, despite his monstrous strength, he wasn't able to cut through steel until he discovered the breathing technique.

To me, being able to cut through really hard substances like steel and diamond is like adding an elemental attribute to your weapon, like in an rpg. Even if you're using your strongest attack, if you aren't planning on cutting steel or diamond, why add that extra whatever to it if it isn't necessary? I think the fact that a swordsman can also make his sword not cut something illustrates this even better. A good swordsman isn't someone that can cut everything in his path, it's someone that can cut what he needs to cut and not cut what he doesn't want to cut. That's close enough to what Zoro's master said. xD
Problem is, Whitbeard was armed with a weapon of unknown strength... was it just ordinary steel, or was it something stronger... If Whitebeard was gonna block the attack that's the weapon he would use. So mihawk would have had to been prepared to cut through not just Whitebeard, but whatever weapon he used to block the attack... and when dealing with an unknown weapon, a slash that could cut through anything would be better than one meant exclusively for flesh
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Old 2009-12-26, 01:29   Link #92
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v good cliff hanger, the outcome of the war is *still* uncertain to me, WB is prty much going to die one way or the other though - what im dissapointed is how the marines seem to have gotten away scot free in this war, none of their top brass seem to have fallen whilst WB has his two commanders and himself with their handsfull - this war has however, certainly set a tone for the new world though.
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Old 2009-12-26, 02:06   Link #93
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
At Impel Down, Blackbeard said that within a few hours he would do something that would shake the entire world. So, whether he interferes in this war or not, he's most likely going to cause such a huge disturbance to the point where everybody will know his name. If this isn't enough, Shanks also did say that Blackbeard would one day come to steal Whitebeard's position, and Shanks' words certainly do hold merit (i.e. he knew what the repercussions would be of Ace not being ready to confront Blackbeard, the "rampaging era" that would ensue subsequent to that encounter, etc.).
Hmm, what you say does make sense, and if Blackbeard did gain all the Level 6 pirates as a crew, then he would have the man power needed to compete as one of the Yonkou, but, I would lose a lot of respect for Blackbeard if he took this route. Blackbeard is supposed to be the mirror image of Luffy (not the anti-Luffy, considering that both Blackbeard and Luffy believe in the power of dreams, etc (DoFlamingo seems more like an anti-Luffy)), so if he were to be labeled a Yonkou, then he should do it with a small crew (obviously, this is just an opinion, and I am more than willing to admit that Blackbeard with a large crew does present some interesting story choices).

That being said, I had assumed that Blackbeard would be releasing all the Level 6 pirates, but not recruiting them. Consequently, this would have resulted in the fall of Impel Down, and the emergence of a "rampaging era" (and a counterbalance to Whitebeard’s fall).
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Old 2009-12-26, 03:37   Link #94
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Even if there were only three Yonkou, I dont think that there will be that large a imbalance since the Yonkou do not seem to really cooperate so the three remaining Yonkou will probably have only lost a bit of power, if not gained some from the survivors of this battle joining them.
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Old 2009-12-26, 04:09   Link #95
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Problem is, Whitbeard was armed with a weapon of unknown strength... was it just ordinary steel, or was it something stronger... If Whitebeard was gonna block the attack that's the weapon he would use. So mihawk would have had to been prepared to cut through not just Whitebeard, but whatever weapon he used to block the attack... and when dealing with an unknown weapon, a slash that could cut through anything would be better than one meant exclusively for flesh
That's not the first time we've seen WB's polearm. He's been shown with it before, so it's his weapon of choice, which means Mihawk should know exactly what to do with it. Just because we don't know how strong it is doesn't mean Mihawk doesn't know how to handle it. What we saw was Diamondz blocking a long distance attack from Mihawk. Honestly, there's no way I'd call that his best attack. Yea, it's strong. Yea, it's flashy. Yea, yadda yadda. He's a swordsman. His best and strongest attack is going to be a point-blank slash or stab that actually touches you. Or, if it is gonna be some long distance attack, it'll at least be given a fancy name. xD

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Hmm, what you say does make sense, and if Blackbeard did gain all the Level 6 pirates as a crew, then he would have the man power needed to compete as one of the Yonkou, but, I would lose a lot of respect for Blackbeard if he took this route. Blackbeard is supposed to be the mirror image of Luffy (not the anti-Luffy, considering that both Blackbeard and Luffy believe in the power of dreams, etc (DoFlamingo seems more like an anti-Luffy)), so if he were to be labeled a Yonkou, then he should do it with a small crew (obviously, this is just an opinion, and I am more than willing to admit that Blackbeard with a large crew does present some interesting story choices).

That being said, I had assumed that Blackbeard would be releasing all the Level 6 pirates, but not recruiting them. Consequently, this would have resulted in the fall of Impel Down, and the emergence of a "rampaging era" (and a counterbalance to Whitebeard’s fall).
I doubt Blackbeard will be adding a lot of people to his crew. There might be one or two more people from Lv6 joining, but that's all I really see. He's the type of idiot that floats around on a giant raft . . . he's not gonna want a huge crew. While it seems really counterproductive to become a Shichi and then turn around and throw it away, after you think about it, it's not a bad strategy if he's aiming to literally take WB's place as a Yonkou. He was relatively unknown before he took down Ace. Seemingly overnight after becoming a Shichi he's got worldwide fame and status, a title that lets people know he's a dangerous man. We could say that the only reason he was looking to be a Shichi was so that people would accept him as a candidate for Yonkou whenever the time came. Or he could be trying to fake his death. The last time we saw him, Megallan had left his entire crew for dead, so maybe they'll think he just melted.
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Old 2009-12-26, 04:26   Link #96
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Originally Posted by Vree View Post
"boringly invincible even-admirals-can't -kill him" Luffy.
If you think the the Admirals can't defeat Luffy, then you seriously lack common sense.
If it's about killing Luffy, then you are retarded cuz this is OP and Luffy is the protagonist.

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Originally Posted by MihawkXGP View Post
Thats just it with Joz & Ao Kiji. All he has to do is freeze them and they're screwed. None of these fights made any sense at all. What kind of fighter would go into a fight with a person who can turn you completely to Ice, without going in fully protected?
Some who has the ability to hurt Logias(as shown against Croc and Aokiji himself) but I am happy that Haki CAN'T protect him or anyone against a DF attack.
Teach hasn't been trolled.

Quote:
Marco, for a person with a ultra-rare ability like the Phoenix infact has done fuck all in this war. I'm such a huge fan of Marco, even before this war...however I'm so frustrated that we've not seen much of him. No sooner does he revive in this chapter does he go down.
MihawkXGP, I am disappoint!!!
How can you say that?
Marco STOMPED Kizaru AND Aokiji.

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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The way I saw it was that Mihawk had intended for that slash to cut flesh and bones
Cuz Mihawk's brillant mind knows that WB only blocks with his MUSTACHE.

Quote:
I would expect that Mihawk would be capable of cutting diamond if he had the intent/will to do so. He is the world's greatest swordsman, after all.
Of course, he's so great that even Luffy could escape him.

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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
WB was supposed to be a strategist of the highest caliber.
LOL.

Quote:
you don't get to the top by being a retard.
Sit back, relax and watch Luffy become the PK.

EDIT:

@DJ Trouble
It's the WS Slash as much as Mihawk is the WS Swordsman.
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Old 2009-12-26, 12:14   Link #97
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
If you think the the Admirals can't defeat Luffy, then you seriously lack common sense.
If it's about killing Luffy, then you are retarded cuz this is OP and Luffy is the protagonist.
You think that throwing insults at people helps you get your point across? Seriously man, learn some manners and be civil when in discussion.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Marco STOMPED Kizaru AND Aokiji.
Kizaru and Aokiji look perfectly fine to me.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Cuz Mihawk's brillant mind knows that WB only blocks with his MUSTACHE.
Mihawk's slash was just a test to see how he measures up to the world's strongest man. It was meant to serve as an evaluation on how Mihawk would fare against Whitebeard in a fight.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Of course, he's so great that even Luffy could escape him.
Do you honestly believe he was trying against a small fry like Luffy? Furthermore, Luffy was lucky (what's new? ) that Buggy was there to take the slash for him.

Mihawk is Zoro's final opponent, and therefore it is axiomatic that he's top tier caliber. There is no question about that.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
@DJ Trouble
It's the WS Slash as much as Mihawk is the WS Swordsman.
You must learn to not interpret things so literally. That line simply meant that the slash came from the world's strongest swordsman. Big difference between that and Mihawk's best/strongest attack (which we have yet to see).
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Old 2009-12-26, 13:31   Link #98
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Kizaru and Aokiji look perfectly fine to me.
So what?
Them being doesn't take away the fact that Marco STOMPED them.
Unless you're stupid enough to think that cuz someone is fine, whatever anyone has done to him is meaningless.
Croc is also fine, it doesn't take away that Luffy beat him in Arabasta.

Quote:
Do you honestly believe he was trying against a small fry like Luffy? Furthermore, Luffy was lucky (what's new? ) that Buggy was there to take the slash for him.
Luffy may have been lucky but Mihawk didn't went easy on him.

Quote:
Mihawk is Zoro's final opponent
Nope, it's Shiryuu.

Quote:
You must learn to not interpret things so literally. That line simply meant that the slash came from the world's strongest swordsman. Big difference between that and Mihawk's best/strongest attack (which we have yet to see).
the WS Swordsman is a title given by random dudes, it's not like he won a tournament or such.
That line means as much as his title.
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Old 2009-12-26, 13:44   Link #99
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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So what?
Them being doesn't take away the fact that Marco STOMPED them.
Marco kicked Kizaru and Aokiji and they came back virtually unharmed. Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
the WS Swordsman is a title given by random dudes, it's not like he won a tournament or such.
That line means as much as his title.
Whether you like it or not, Mihawk is labeled as the world's strongest swordsman. Oda said so, just like he said Whitebeard is the world's strongest man, unless you're going to tell me that Whitebeard's title is also bullshit. I think you're trying a little too hard to troll, and unfortunately you're failing miserably .
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Old 2009-12-26, 16:29   Link #100
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Speculations are speculations. Unless stated otherwise by Oda, it is not true (aka we will not know who the final rivals are until we get there, and the titles are here to stay).

With Darker than Black ending, I totally neglected the manga stuff for 2-3 days. I just read this chapter. I still feel Luffy's Haki is underwhelmed (even with all the fainting spells), which is GOOD. Maybe it's the heat of the battle, the ones remain standing didn't go O_O like the snake sisters did, more like =O.
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