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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 26 Rating
Perfect 10 41 18.39%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 31 13.90%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 26 11.66%
7 out of 10 : Good 24 10.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 23 10.31%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 29 13.00%
4 out of 10 : Poor 12 5.38%
3 out of 10 : Bad 5 2.24%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 5 2.24%
1 out of 10 : Painful 27 12.11%
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-12-23, 19:42   Link #121
Mercurius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
I'm sorry to you people who rated this highly, but what Deen did in this episode is outrageously sloppy. I lack the words to properly describe it.

Spoiler for just the most important part of the series:
Given how much the anime was deviating from the VN, I never really cared whether the anime was being consistent with itself.

For the episode itself:
Spoiler for Episode 26:
Pretty much like the majority of the episodes of the anime, I felt this one missed the point of the scenes it showed. The execution animation-wise was somewhat better, probably because DEEN threw whatever minuscule budget they had left into this episode.

My biggest hope for the anime was that enough details would kept in tact so that the anime would have made some contribution to the discussion of the Legend of the Rokkenjima Serial Murders. Unfortunately, instead of the new perspective on the story, the anime failed to keep up with even the most basic of components of the story. It appears imho that the staff that worked on this show did not care much for the original VN at all. It really seems that the goal was to sell DVDs of a mediocre anime using the Umineko brand, a plan that has ultimately back-fired. It's hard to sell something which made not even a tremor of emotional impact on its viewers, when the same story told with just text and sprites brought many of us to tears and the edge of our seats.
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Old 2009-12-23, 19:48   Link #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kite22 View Post
Don't try and place crap on the sound novel as a way to defend a terrible anime
Well to be honest, I found the hugging in the VN quite forced and was left with a mighty bitter taste...hadn't it been for the ???? part I would have been quite dissappointed with Episode 4.
Honestly, 3 9/10 Episodes they were at each others throats and suddenly they hug?! Unless there is a reasonable explenation I will never like that part...so yeah I liked the depiction of the anime more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari
Again, the purpose of an adaptation is to allow the watchers to discover a franchise with another format. By this, why would they have to go back to the source material if they aren't pleased?
Do they suddenly lose their right to criticize something they didn't like? So suddenly, if you didn't read the VN beforehand, it becomes rightful to criticize? I seriously wonder what is this kind of reasoning here.
So long it isn't a plain and silly bash (which still happens mind you), anyone has as much right to praise or rant about a series, regardless if they know about it or not.
Of course everyone is able to voice their opinion, but I think the biggest problem for people who are defending the anime is, that most of the time reasonable points are watered down by the fact that everyone has to repeat again and again how it is Deens fault, how they are crap, how they should go to hell, yadda yadda yadda.
It seems like people don't even try to work out their points, they just want to bash and that kills the whole discussion from the start for most people.

It's everyone's individual choice to like or dislike the anime, but just uttering hate paroles isn't really furthering a good climate.
Ah well, it's over now and I think most of you won't follow a 2nd season anyway, because the first one was so bad...unless you feel compelled to watch it because of a higher reason.

Quote:
As you can expect, there are a lot of shades of grey in the reception over there, so the whole "they did like the adaptation" looks like a totally random claim to me.
And of course not everybody liked the anime over there, that's pretty much impossible. I for example didn't like Haruhi and felt pretty much alone with this, but that's another story.
But in the end I always felt that comments about the anime from Japan were somewhat more elaborated, reflecting a bit more on the whole topic...except the usual 2chan shouts.
Still I have yet to see a place where the majority of Japanese viewers hated the adaption...much of the stuff I read was at least accepting it was an adaption...

Like you said, there are a lot of shades of grey, but somehow I find the darkest ones around here.
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Old 2009-12-23, 19:49   Link #123
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It also annoyed me they replaced the hentai scene with that stupid dragon.
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Old 2009-12-23, 19:59   Link #124
Impossible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Do you honestly think the adaptation was primarly done for non VN reader? That is totally nonsense, considering how many fanservice detail were put that are totally obscure to the non vn watcher (virgilia's "gapgapgap" is the prime example of this).
That's not the whole issue of its quality as an adaptation, though... a successful adaptation can be viewed, enjoyed and understood completely on its own. This anime doesn't do that. It completely fails as a standalone work. The characters are one-dimensional, the story is incoherent and self-contradictory (especially due to the lack of information and red text), the mystery is a joke, and so much is missing that it's practically impossible to complete the story from this point.

An adaptation should not require its source material just to be understandable. It's a terrible adaptation because it pretty much fails in every single area on its own merits (or lack thereof), with its redeeming qualities simply being whatever it could keep remotely similar to the VN.
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:15   Link #125
StainGlass
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Spoiler for episode review:
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:19   Link #126
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
Of course everyone is able to voice their opinion, but I think the biggest problem for people who are defending the anime is, that most of the time reasonable points are watered down by the fact that everyone has to repeat again and again how it is Deens fault, how they are crap, how they should go to hell, yadda yadda yadda.
It seems like people don't even try to work out their points, they just want to bash and that kills the whole discussion from the start for most people.

It's everyone's individual choice to like or dislike the anime, but just uttering hate paroles isn't really furthering a good climate.
While there is a very tiring trend in the hate comments, I think what makes it worse is how "both sides" are bikering to each other.
I believe that there is a balance at stake here, but heh.

Quote:
Ah well, it's over now and I think most of you won't follow a 2nd season anyway, because the first one was so bad...unless you feel compelled to watch it because of a higher reason.
"you" huh... I was utterly disappointed, and I can't call it "good adaptation", but I've seen really "bad anime series" (if you are including me, that is).
That said, I won't bet anything on "will/will not watch" thing, as you can expect that driving reason to see "their favorite story animated", which, regardless how good or bad it is, will attract curiosity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossible View Post
That's not the whole issue of its quality as an adaptation, though... a successful adaptation can be viewed, enjoyed and understood completely on its own. This anime doesn't do that. It completely fails as a standalone work. The characters are one-dimensional, the story is incoherent and self-contradictory (especially due to the lack of information and red text), the mystery is a joke, and so much is missing that it's practically impossible to complete the story from this point.

An adaptation should not require its source material just to be understandable. It's a terrible adaptation because it pretty much fails in every single area on its own merits (or lack thereof), with its redeeming qualities simply being whatever it could keep remotely similar to the VN.
That was actually my point: I didn't mention "any adaptation" as a whole, but Umineko's.
For obvious reason, an adaptation is indeed considered good if it does deliver the essence of the original material without the said material at hand to anyone, anime only watchers or not.
The point with Umineko is how it is missing critical points as noted. And because of the fanservice points that make only sense to VN reader, I really think the series makes sense only to the VN readers.

I really doubt any non VN reader can have the same interpretation and concept of the story if it wasn't for the comparison and all "extra" from the vn readers.
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:28   Link #127
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ok so here is my statemant and rating for the episode.
I vote 4 why? because this episode was epic fail , many parts made no sense at all.
as for ange?
I put this in a spoiler because there might be spoiler

Spoiler for why?:
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:39   Link #128
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Gave a 6. Low for a last episode because honestly, I've already watered down my expectations but it failed to deliver very important key points.

-1 for no dreamenddischarger
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:46   Link #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christen View Post

-1 for no dreamenddischarger
They don't HAVE to keep the original music, you know.
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:53   Link #130
Arachanox
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I'd accept Dreamenddischarger for the final scene if I had to lose Fake Red Shoes for the Virgilia/Beatrice battle in EP3.
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:53   Link #131
Ace of Dragons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
They don't HAVE to keep the original music, you know.
It'd suit the atmosphere a lot better than Goldenslaughterer.
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Old 2009-12-23, 20:55   Link #132
Kitsu
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Quote:
It'd suit the atmosphere a lot better than Goldenslaughterer.
HM, I know I will get beaten for it but...I though goldenslaughterer fitted more especially during Kinzo Dragon.
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Old 2009-12-23, 21:09   Link #133
KanonTheFurniture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StainGlass
+ Glad the violence was kept, but Beatrice sure has a lot of blood
My thoughts exactly. It seems every time she steps up to a 'fight' situation (vs. Virgilia, vs. Eva-Beatrice and now vs. Battler), when that woman bleeds, she bleeeeeeeeeeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari
I really doubt any non VN reader can have the same interpretation and concept of the story if it wasn't for the comparison and all "extra" from the vn readers.
I feel the same way, in fact I mentioned a similar thing in the episode 25 thread. I see it around here an awful lot, between the people always asking the same questions ("OMG this Battler kid is so stupid how can he deny witches if he's fighting one?!") and then seeing people who are Anime-only viewers who 'know' things in advance because they've been in the game threads and have been spoiled, or have found out about scenes the Anime omitted. I think the mark of how well this series has done - as a standalone AND as an adaptation - is to ask yourself if an Anime-only viewer would be able to understand what's going on in this series without the aid of VN players and spoilers on this forum and elsewhere on the 'net. And from what I've seen, that's not the case...Anime viewers are always asking for clarification on things that DEEN screwed up due to poor direction, or are finding out spoilers for scenes because they're constantly hearing VN players bitch about this and that.

This forum isn't exactly always friendly in either camp (VN players can be too rough on Anime viewers, but Anime viewers can also be a bit rude with the whole 'oh God get over yourselves it's not that bad' routine), but it paints a pretty interesting picture when you think about it. Take another fairly recent and popular adaptation for comparison - Death Note. A lot of people had already read and loved the Manga and were excited to see this adaptation. Most people enjoyed the first half, but after one of the major characters died (OMG SPOILERS seriously though if you don't know that already GTFO the internet) the camps split - those who continued to enjoy the Anime, even through the radically-changed ending, because it was good on its own merits, and those who started raging because of how much they had to rush through the second arc and change things around...especially the ending. But in the end, Death Note is a series that you can enjoy even if you've never seen the source material. You don't need to know that the Manga ends differently and sends a different message, especially with the epilogue. You can still enjoy the Anime on its own merits, as the story was still faithful to the source material in the end, and had the right emotion in the right places.

Hell, even the movies, which are drastically different from the Anime and Manga, manage to be nice adaptations based on the series and the characters. They're enjoyable whether you're a fan of the source material or not. Umineko is not this - it somehow situated itself between 'you have to know the source to understand this' and 'if you're a fan of the source why are you watching this when we're ruining so much for you?'. In that respect, whether some of its audience (new to the franchise or fans of the source) have enjoyed it, it has still failed at being a good series or adaptation. Is there worse? Oh, much. But that doesn't mean Umineko is good. Can you still enjoy it? Sure. Is it horrible? No. But it's mediocre at best. And I think that's the heart of the problem here...especially when trying to measure up to such an in-depth and emotional series, DEEN's attempt to mimic their Higurashi success just falls flat in almost every way. Call it my opinion if you like, but I think a lot of it stands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth
They don't HAVE to keep the original music, you know.
When it's DreamEndDischarger? Yes. Yes they do.

Last edited by Solace; 2009-12-24 at 16:35. Reason: Tweaked spoiler.
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Old 2009-12-23, 21:10   Link #134
Marion
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Spoiler for Review time!:


Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
They don't HAVE to keep the original music, you know.
They don't have to but they should AT LEAST put a better track than Golden Slaughter, which does not fit the mood. I wouldn't have minded Dread of the Grave either, but that track only played once in the entire anime.
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Old 2009-12-23, 21:18   Link #135
momobunny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth View Post
They don't HAVE to keep the original music, you know.
The problem isn't just that they didn't include it... but that they had an arranged version of it but decided to ignore it. Same goes for Mortal Stampede... why did they let these tracks go to waste? @___@;

I personally found Goldenslaughter to be completely out of place. It's not like it upsets me... it just made the scene feel very awkward for me is all. Also I hate that they just wasted an awesome song like that. They may as well not even have rearranged it, then at least we wouldn't have gotten our hopes up for it to be included.

But oh well, I'm going to wait for the subbed version to rate this episode. So far it rates as a 7 in my eyes.
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Old 2009-12-23, 21:38   Link #136
MeoTwister5
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Considering the hole that DEEN dug themselves with episode 25, this was surprisingly excellent, relatively speaking of course, DESPITE the absence of DreamEndDischarger. They cut out what I expected them to cut out and managed to pace it well enough.

(Actually I played Red Rose's DED version while the final duel was playing)

Again, despite the fact that DED was absent, the R/B duel between Battler and Beato was EXCELLENT if with lots of cuts. I mean cmon at least they let Beato get her impalement. Plus points for that.

On the other hand, no hug. At least we got the SMILE. Likewise no ??? teaparty, which could only mean two things:

1. Since it leads to the next volume, perhaps by omitting it thet have no plans of making the next season?
2. A possible stand-alone mini-episode or the lead-in to next season?

I'm not going to comment much anymore before other VN players lynch me for liking this episode. A 7/10 for a finale.
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Old 2009-12-23, 21:39   Link #137
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Umineko anime never existed for me... I don't even want Chiru to be animated now.
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Old 2009-12-23, 21:40   Link #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Likewise no ??? teaparty, which could only mean two things:

1. Since it leads to the next volume, perhaps by omitting it thet have no plans of making the next season?
2. A possible stand-alone mini-episode or the lead-in to next season?
???? was after the ending credits
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Old 2009-12-23, 21:49   Link #139
immblueversion
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Originally Posted by Majo View Post
Umineko anime never existed for me... I don't even want Chiru to be animated now.
And yet I still expect it to be done sooner or later, one way or another, because I myself am perpetually aware that what I watch can never be unwatched.
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Old 2009-12-23, 22:04   Link #140
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One word.

PHAIL.

Anyway, it's finally over, I really hope they change the company for Chiru. This is just like Leekgima, Phail Stay/Night, and Turkeyhandle. Please rescue them, someone, Shaft, Ufotable...anyone other than Deen and Xebec..

BTW, what's Deen problem with dragon, it didn't work in Phail Stay/Night, and it definitely didn't work here. Jebus!
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