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Old 2010-01-02, 00:50   Link #441
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorahk View Post
BTW, for the love of god people, it's Hachijou Touya, not anything else that I've seen in this thread. The reading is confirmed in furigana next to the name.
Yeah we know, I just refer to her as Chijou because saying it comes off my tounge more naturally than Hachijou.

Spoiler for Ep6 Spoilers:


Also summaries a little while later. I accidentally deleted the notes I made after the last batch so I'm playing through the sections again.
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:14   Link #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorahk View Post
BTW, for the love of god people, it's Hachijou Touya, not anything else that I've seen in this thread. The reading is confirmed in furigana next to the name.
You mean "Hiragana."

And the Hiragana is "はちじょう とおや" which appears, when romanized, literally becomes "Hachijou Tooya":

は = ha
ち = chi
じょ = jo
う = u

と = to
お = o
や = ya

But that's just the literal, character-for-character meaning.

If what irks you is the spelling of the name "Tooya" (とおや) rather than "Touya" (とうや), note that when a character ending with the vowel "o" such as "to" (と) is followed by the character simply meaning "o" (お), it is commonly romanized as "oh". So in that sense, "とお" becomes "toh", making "はちじょう とおや" becomes "Hachijou Tohya".

We could just call her "Hachijo Toya", but don't feel the need to absolutely do so.
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:17   Link #443
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Originally Posted by Alcindor View Post
i miss the old battler from ep1-4
From what am hearing he is turning into a douche , sigh cant control who u fall in love with i guess :/
He's not really a douche. Just really depressed. Good portion of the game he's upset about Beatrice dying still and the scene where he just plays pretend is heart-wrenching.

But I promise you he does get better. Even though he is sorta a jerk to the new Beato at first he doesn't stay a douche the entire game. I wish he wouldn't be so incompetent, since ultimately that's why Erika was able to make a logical error on the gameboard, but whatever.
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:19   Link #444
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I'm pretty sure the Hiragana next to kanji (above/to the side usually, but in this case to the side in parentheses) are called Furigana. So zorahk was correct when s/he called them Furigana.
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:30   Link #445
immblueversion
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Originally Posted by Tjfarmer View Post
I'm pretty sure the Hiragana next to kanji (above/to the side usually, but in this case to the side in parentheses) are called Furigana. So zorahk was correct when s/he called them Furigana.
Very well, it is furigana written in hiragana.
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Old 2010-01-02, 01:32   Link #446
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From where I am right now, Battler comes off more of a pretend Magnificent Semi-Bastard of sorts.

Oh and here are the first summaries for today.

Spoiler for Ep6 Summaries:

Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2010-01-02 at 01:52.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:19   Link #447
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Question:

Spoiler for Ep6:


Thanks.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:27   Link #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Question:

Spoiler for Ep6:


Thanks.
She was responsible for giving realworld-Ange the information of EP3-EP6. Featherine was responsible for writing down what she watched and delivered the information to whoever she deemed suitable (e.g. moe-Beatrice, Bern, meta-Ange)

We could expect realworld-Ange to have once again a "new" journey to Rokkenjima in EP7.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:31   Link #449
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That really doesn't answer my question.

Magic doesn't exist. Therefore, everything we've read up until now has been the invention of a newly introduced, barely hinted-at character. I am, I hope understandably, a bit upset about this.

I am trying to find out if the Meta-World, where most of the plot happens anyway, is at least free from taint like that.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:33   Link #450
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
That really doesn't answer my question.

Magic doesn't exist. Therefore, everything we've read up until now has been the invention of a newly introduced, barely hinted-at character. I am, I hope understandably, a bit upset about this.

I am trying to find out if the Meta-World, where most of the plot happens anyway, is at least free from taint like that.
I personally don't believe she controls that too. She's linked to the metaworld, yes, but she's not a higher power that controls it too. As in the post I deleted:

Spoiler for Ep6 spoiler:


Think about it this way, using a kindergarden analogy:

Hachijou: Storybook Author.
Battler: The teacher reading the story.
MetaWorld, Us: The people listening to the story.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:36   Link #451
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I personally don't believe she controls that too.
I've heard something to the effect that her stories contain the meta-world as well...?

Which means that Umineko is basically meta-fanfiction.

I'm really not happy about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Hachijou: Storybook Author.
Battler: The teacher reading the story.
MetaWorld, Us: The people listening to the story.
So exactly how is that Knox rule about evidence being presented beforehand supposed to work with this?

...I'm kind of wondering if this was even planned or not. Because, frankly, it's stupid.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:37   Link #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Ep6 spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:41   Link #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I've heard something to the effect that her stories contain the meta-world as well...?

Which means that Umineko is basically meta-fanfiction.

I'm really not happy about that.
As I said, from where I am in the story she does not control the metaworld because there have been scenes of both Featherine's domain and the metaworld linkign with each other on an equal level. Everything she and Ange have discussed so far pertain as per the events of Rokkenjima only to the gameboard as interpreters, at the same time they can interact the metaworld as fellow "readers" but not as controllers.

Read the analogy I editted in my previous post.

Quote:
So exactly how is that Knox rule about evidence being presented beforehand supposed to work with this?

...I'm kind of wondering if this was even planned or not. Because, frankly, it's stupid.
It doesn't violate anything. Even with Hachijou as the author she does not control how people interpret anything in the story including evidence. Evidence is there, but like a real world trial it is subject to evidence. The evidence is there beforehand as part of the story but subjected to how the players view them.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:44   Link #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I've heard something to the effect that her stories contain the meta-world as well...?

Which means that Umineko is basically meta-fanfiction.

I'm really not happy about that.
Seriously, if you judge any story that's even remotely linked to the mystery genre by using spoilers, your opinion has no value. You do not understand EP6 yet. Don't judge it until you do.

Also, if you have a pre-set checklist of "things that will ruin the story if they are included in any form", Ryuukishi will always disappoint you. From the very beginning, his specialty has always been taking the tired cliches and turning them on their heads... Unless you pay attention to how he does things instead of just what he does, you'll miss out on most of the story. And you need to read the whole thing to do that.

If you can't do that, this isn't the genre for you.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:44   Link #455
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Can everyone tell me please.. T T
How're Moebeato and SuitBeato in the Ep6 ending?..
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Last edited by passuki; 2010-01-02 at 05:17.
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Old 2010-01-02, 04:54   Link #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Seriously, if you judge any story that's even remotely linked to the mystery genre by using spoilers, your opinion has no value. You do not understand EP6 yet. Don't judge it until you do.

Also, if you have a pre-set checklist of "things that will ruin the story if they are included in any form", Ryuukishi will always disappoint you. From the very beginning, his specialty has always been taking the tired cliches and turning them on their heads... Unless you pay attention to how he does things instead of just what he does, you'll miss out on most of the story. And you need to read the whole thing to do that.

If you can't do that, this isn't the genre for you.
...You know, I just... Sigh.

I don't really know what to say to this statement. I feel like an idiot. (Probably because I am.)

I just feel really, really betrayed, what with the spoilers I've read so far on Hachijou. The story just feels so... empty, now.

I'm sorry for wasting all of your time.
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Old 2010-01-02, 05:01   Link #457
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The problem is that you're reading spoilers in a vacuum of knowledge. Before I started playing, when I read the info on Featherine I was like "WTF tacked on creator world undermines the metaworld etc blah blah" and wondered that if having yet another realm completely destroys the credibility of the metaworld.

Now that I'm running through it, I'm convinced that Featherine exists on an equal level and not above the metaworld. Hell I still believe that the Featherine+Ange is purely symbolic representation of the R07+reader interaction and not even part of the story itself.
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Old 2010-01-02, 05:03   Link #458
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
The problem is that you're reading spoilers in a vacuum of knowledge.
Yeah, I think that'd be it.
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Old 2010-01-02, 05:05   Link #459
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...You know, I just... Sigh.

I don't really know what to say to this statement. I feel like an idiot. (Probably because I am.)

I just feel really, really betrayed, what with the spoilers I've read so far on Hachijou. The story just feels so... empty, now.
If so, then I'm guessing you haven't heard about the Ura Tea party. I can say some things fairly confidently. Hachijou is more than just a human writing a story. There is another layer of backstory that even she can't control. Even if we solve all the puzzles of the game boards and the game itself, there is still the question of how this whole thing started in the first place. Until we know that, it's impossible to be too certain about anything.

There's no reason why the game itself should fall under Knox's rules. Ryuukishi has never guaranteed that we should be able to figure that out, and EP6 introduces the fact that Lambda and Bern do have real backstories.

In the end, it still comes down to whether you have faith in Ryuukishi. I think he's had a pretty incredible record so far, so I'm willing to bet that he'll be able to end this thing successfully. However, if you go into this thinking that Ryuukishi is going to screw everything up, you'll probably keep thinking that way as you read it.
There's a reason why Ryuukishi urges his readers on so often even inside the games. If he does succeed with finishing the Umineko story, he will have created one of the largest puzzles I've ever seen. But it's complicated enough that most people will probably miss out on a large part of it.
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Old 2010-01-02, 05:15   Link #460
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
In the end, it still comes down to whether you have faith in Ryuukishi. I think he's had a pretty incredible record so far, so I'm willing to bet that he'll be able to end this thing successfully. However, if you go into this thinking that Ryuukishi is going to screw everything up, you'll probably keep thinking that way as you read it.
I do understand, but... I can't help but worry... Ryukishi's writing is just so off-the-wall, overcomplicated, and full of insane plot devices, that I just keep thinking it's all going to collapse in a massive, convoluted mess despite knowing that positive attitudes make things more enjoyable.

Although, I admit that if he manages to pull it all off and end in an emotionally satisfying and complete way, he's just about the best author ever, just for doing so.
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